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Scofield. M.O.T.S.S.
Against my better judgement, I went to Scofield today. M.O.T.S.S. More Of The Same Shtuff. Underdeveloped cutts, and still chubs.




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Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
I assume you were near the dam or is the reservoir frozen?
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Re: [grandpafish] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Madsen Bay. Whole reservoir is frozen.

The chub put up the best fight of the day.



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Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
no worries Fshrmn. In about 6 years, maybe, we should have enough information for someone to decide to keep up with M.O.T.S.S.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [PBH] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
PBH wrote:

In about 6 years, maybe, we should have enough information for someone to decide to keep up with M.O.T.S.S.

You are an optimist if you think it will only be for another 6 years. In10 years (or more) and nothing has changed, but they will say be patient because it will in another 5 or 6 years.


"If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago."
- Zane Grey
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
That is great, from the sounds of it you caught more cutts than chubs, so things are improving.Cool Some of us look at it from the perspective of the glass half full, while others look at as half empty. From what I have read from the post of many members that fish there, things are improving at Scofield. Cutts always take time to grow, especially for the first year or two after they are planted. In just about every lake they are in, they are underdeveloped until they reach a certain size.


BFT administrator and moderator

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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Just out of curiosity, what were you expecting?





I caught you a delicious bass.
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Re: [wiperhunter2] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
wiperhunter2 wrote:
That is great, from the sounds of it you caught more cutts than chubs, so things are improving.Cool Some of us look at it from the perspective of the glass half full, while others look at as half empty. From what I have read from the post of many members that fish there, things are improving at Scofield. Cutts always take time to grow, especially for the first year or two after they are planted. In just about every lake they are in, they are underdeveloped until they reach a certain size.


Had they poisoned it, his chub catch would have been 0, and the cutthroat would have been the same. So the net result is that we are behind schedule. That's a downer.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [wiperhunter2] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
No, things aren't improving. I've always caught more cutthroats than chubs. In fact, I used to have to deliberately try for chubs. Now they just hit the same stuff I'm using for trout. They're still there, and they're still too numerous to allow the other fish to get anything to eat. Under developed is one thing. Emaciated, snaky, shoelace sized fish are another. We've been at this for at least 18 years. Another 6 would make a quarter of a century.




<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
(This post was edited by Fishrmn on Dec 11, 2018, 8:56 AM)
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
doggonefishin wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what were you expecting?
Pretty much what I got. I certainly wasn't expecting the kind of fishing that Scofield used to provide. I wasn't expecting the kind of fishing that you get after a fishery has been restarted after a rotenone treatment.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Put some master predators in Scofield. More Tigermuskies, more Wipers, Walleye and maybe some Blue cats. In short time there would be no Chubs or shoestring Cutts. Maybe some Bluegills. Better tugs than Hatchery carp!
Ice_sled
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Maybe they should do another state wide survey from anglers, that seemed to help🙄. Or possibly a 8 fish trout limit to help cull the trout so there is more chow to go around🙄. Or maybe... just maybe they should poison the lake, start over, and get it over with.

The bottom line is Scofield is the number 1 reservoir in the state for growing large trout fast. It is getting insulting to keep being told the same fairy tale story line year in and year out with little results.

I want Scofield Reservoir back!!!!
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Re: [ice_sled] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
But, but...where would people get catfish and Strawberry bait?



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Re: [Northman] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Northman wrote:
Maybe they should do another state wide survey from anglers, that seemed to help🙄. Or possibly a 8 fish trout limit to help cull the trout so there is more chow to go around🙄. Or maybe... just maybe they should poison the lake, start over, and get it over with.

The bottom line is Scofield is the number 1 reservoir in the state for growing large trout fast. It is getting insulting to keep being told the same fairy tale story line year in and year out with little results.

I want Scofield Reservoir back!!!!

☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [ice_sled] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
ice_sled wrote:
Put some master predators in Scofield. More Tigermuskies, more Wipers, Walleye and maybe some Blue cats. In short time there would be no Chubs or shoestring Cutts. Maybe some Bluegills. Better tugs than Hatchery carp!

hmmm....in short time? Or maybe in 10 years. Maybe. That's a really big maybe. In fact, it's a maybe not.



The problem with this logic is size and quantity. It isn't easy to raise enough (quantity) large (size) predators to stock in the lake to make a difference, especially "in short time".

So, as an alternative, they do what they did. They stock a lot (quantity) of small predators. The problem with small predators is that they eat the same thing the chubs eat. And, guess what? The chubs do a better job of eating that same food, and thus outcompete those predators, causing them to grow (or die) very slowly. And the chubs keep reproducing, and reproducing, and reproducing.


There is nothing "short" about the current strategy. If "in short time" were truly desired, rotenone would have been used, and Scofield would already be kicking out nice sized predators.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [Northman] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
If I remember correctly there wasn’t a Chub problem until they raised the limit to 8 fish limit a few years ago. A lot of big fish were e taken out at that time. Trophy sized fish.
Ice_sled
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Re: [RockyRaab] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
There is still a good supply of Chubs in the Price River.
Ice_sled
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Re: [PBH] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Did you happen to see the two year old Wiper that the UDWR showed from the gill nets? I'd be willing to bet it was one of these. And it hadn't grown any in the year that it was in Scofield.
Quote:
SCOFIELD RES CARBON WIPER 2250 7.5 10/13/2017
SCOFIELD RES CARBON WIPER 2250 7.5 10/13/2017
SCOFIELD RES CARBON WIPER 399 10.51 10/13/2017

I like Wipers. I wish they could do well in Scofield. I just don't think they will. I've had conversations with guys who work for the UDWR that don't think they will either. As in, if they don't plant them at least 8 inches long, they won't survive. 6 months of cold water, and dormancy is pretty hard on them.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
image/jpeg IMG_1708.JPG (3.78 MB)
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Re: [ice_sled] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
ice_sled wrote:
If I remember correctly there wasn’t a Chub problem until they raised the limit to 8 fish limit a few years ago. A lot of big fish were e taken out at that time. Trophy sized fish.

A few trophy sized fish does not = a healthy fishery. A healthy fishery is often determined by growth rates. If average growth rates are slow, there is a problem.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Fishrmn wrote:

I like Wipers...

I LOVE wipers. I think they are awesome, and they do a fantastic job in waters infested by chubs. They have proven in numerous places to effectively control (eliminate?) chubs populations. They have been an amazing tool for our fisheries managers.




Fishrmn wrote:
...I wish they could do well in ScofieldI just don't think they will. I've had conversations with guys who work for the UDWR that don't think they will either. As in, if they don't plant them at least 8 inches long, they won't survive. 6 months of cold water, and dormancy is pretty hard on them.

I'm with you, and them. I have a hard time believing that they will be able to thrive at Sofield's elevation. I really think we are pushing their limits.

I agree with that other guy -- let's put some blue catfish in there too! At this point, why not? Let's just go for broke and prove how futile this plan is!



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
I also wonder how the tiger muskies will do at that elevation? The ideal temperature for tigers is 68-75 degrees so their rapid growing period may be short lived each year. Only time will tell as they only began planting these in 2017.
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Re: Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
I have to say an interesting conversation by the same folks.

I for one learned long ago learned get involved and do what you can being proactive and involved. I attempt to live by that, have I made mistakes oh heck yea. So with that being said:

I've been informally and formally (invited to attend meeting) hosted by the DNR and DWR fishing biologists. I listen and provide constructive input as an angler. I remain upbeat and positive at what these folks are doing and plans they are working.

Per info at a recent meeting and working with state officials I've been able to gather info from them and also being proactive have provided them with meaningful feedback.

They are making a difference at Scofield. Now the nay-sayers want instant gratification maybe listen and be involved would be my recommendation and do what you can. Stand back and look in the mirror: what are you doing to help, what constructive feedback do you provide with justifiable rationale. Heck maybe change your bait and big fish like bigger baits. Just my recommendation.

Here's info I want to share WRT Scofield after a recent meeting I attended with email follow up questions to the DWR folks over this awesome body of water that I look forward to fishing soon:

"Scofield, tiger muskies were up to 27" this fall and we netted a wiper that was 14" and very robust. That wiper was an overwintered fish. We also netted 40 wiper between 4-6" that were stocked in May at about 1.5". Chub numbers continue to trend down and their size structure is going up. This is good news. We also stocked 20,000 12"+ rainbows that anglers appear to be catching. So all in all things are going very well up there."

Finally I've attached photos and here is a link to a video on the October 5 gill netting they did. Folks things take time and for me I'll side on time as killing off a body of water well as Einstein so accurately said it if one keeps doing the same thing expecting different results its insanity. Along with wasting time and money for us now. I'll give Scofield time as I'm not about doing the same thing expecting different results. I also have seen on this Forum and throughout various other Social Media sites...well folks are appearing happy with Scofield and having fun with their families, kids, and grandkids.

Here is a link to a video that was shared with me on Scofield and I hope the link works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBFfVbymdCY


Location: Lake Katchabigun

Once you know everything about anything its what you learn afterwards that counts.

Skunked, we never get skunked its the fish getting skunked as they just kept missing our lures.
image/jpeg DSC01753.JPG (14.7 MB)
image/jpeg DSC01759.JPG (19.5 MB)
image/jpeg DSC01776.JPG (17.6 MB)
image/jpeg DSC01787.JPG (16.7 MB)
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Re: [chuckbigflies] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
chuckbigflies wrote:
I also wonder how the tiger muskies will do at that elevation? The ideal temperature for tigers is 68-75 degrees so their rapid growing period may be short lived each year. Only time will tell as they only began planting these in 2017.

Time will tell. They've done okay at Fish Lake and Johnson Reservoir. The UDWR has no plans to do anything different for at least another 4 years.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Fishrmn wrote:
Time will tell. ... The UDWR has no plans to do anything different for at least another 4 years.


So, in another 4 years there is a chance that we could be where we could have been this year by using rotenone?



I don't get the "doing the same thing over and getting the same results" argument.

Rotenone it. Restock with tiger musky, wiper, blue cats, and trout (and whatever else you want). How is that doing the same thing over?


I'll never understand the "let's wait" plan. Why wait when you can have better by acting now?


I guess that's what I get for never getting involved. Laugh



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
FWIW there is an issue with Johnson Reservoir with water elevation as it gets drained and becomes a murky mud puddle. Next Tiger Muskies are NOT stocked in Fish Lake they make their way to Fish Lake from Johnson.

Now with the above being said Tiger Muskies in Joes Valley are doing very well and that is cold water. Per data I've seen and researched that is a good thing colder water.

Finally at PV Tiger Muskies are doing okay even in the warmer water and per the fin ray samples are living to 11 years and that's warmer water. The DWR is working with USU on fin rays from JV and hoping for that info soon as it's believed the colder the water the longer TM will live.

In the Basin area tiger muskies are doing okay and helping eliminate the carp issue that eventually and hopefully will help downstream with Pelican.


Location: Lake Katchabigun

Once you know everything about anything its what you learn afterwards that counts.

Skunked, we never get skunked its the fish getting skunked as they just kept missing our lures.
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Re: [ice_sled] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Bingo! There were chubs in the lake in small numbers before the 8 fish limit. But there were enough 4 to 5 pound Cutthroat and 3 to 4 pound rainbows that kept them in check.

The DWR had this spectacular idea that Scofield could handle over 2X's the fishing hours that it was currently getting . So the plan was to make the reservoir a fishery where you could "Come fill up the cooler" to incentavise more anglers to use the lake. The large trout numbers were depleted and the smaller trout were caught then taken home in coolers before they could grow to a predatory size. The chubs filled the void and quickly overran the Reservoir.


To me personally this is why it is so frustrating getting told the same story year after year after year. The initial mistake of the 8 fish limit was most likely done in good faith that Scofield could handle the additional fishing pressure and more anglers could enjoy the resource. But the way they are dragging their feet with "The Long Game" and "Cost Effective" solution is not acceptable. The "resource" is without question under utilized now and has been for over a decade. And there is a cost of lost revenue to running with a under utilized Scofield that needs to be considered as a offset to a rotenone treatment. That $$$ number has never been addressed and is very relevant!


In my opinoin the biggest obstacle to doing a rotenone treatment on Scofield is not the price tag. I believe it has a lot more to do with saving face than the money. The DWR needs to come to grips with-

1) The 8 fish limit was a mistake.

2) What they have done the last 10+ years has not worked and just prolonged the inevitable.
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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
And they used rotenone at Pelican. Same process, same results?



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Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Way bigger issue at Pelican then Chubs. Be involved and you’ll know the ENTIRE story on Pelican.


Location: Lake Katchabigun

Once you know everything about anything its what you learn afterwards that counts.

Skunked, we never get skunked its the fish getting skunked as they just kept missing our lures.
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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Really?

1) The extensive state wide survey that was done that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of anglers wanted to retonone Scofield.
2) And the number 1 recommendation from the biologist was to retonone Scofield.(for many years)

Thats not enough, and what is really required is to work your way into closed door meetings and tell the executives what they want to hear?

Sounds more like "Lobbying" than getting involved...
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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
My point being, you could just put Tiger Muskies and Wipers in Pelican and give it 20 or 30 years. Or you could do what they've done. Poison, replant, and add the predators.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Northman] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Northman wrote:
Really?

1) The extensive state wide survey that was done that overwhelmingly showed that the majority of anglers wanted to retonone Scofield.
2) And the number 1 recommendation from the biologist was to retonone Scofield.(for many years)

Thats not enough, and what is really required is to work your way into closed door meetings and tell the executives what they want to hear?

Sounds more like "Lobbying" than getting involved...


☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Northman] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Hahaha No lobbying on my part as I don’t lobby. Folks who know me know I don’t play reindeer games. I’ll speak my mind no yelling or screaming I’ll provide justifiable rationale. Plus I’ll do research and provide constructive feedback as an angler.

I do LISTEN and that’s an Art many don’t have now a days. It’s their way and the past with same results even though the results will be the same. There’s no closed meeting with DWR or DNR that I know of. Again as I’ve said, it’s being involved and doing what one can. It’s providing justifiable rational and not whining I’m an angler not a biologist I’ll educa myself the best I can. Be patient grasshoppers good things will happen things take time. Get involved is my recommendation and that’s what I strive to do.

Go out catch fish and have fun with family and friends!!!Smile


Location: Lake Katchabigun

Once you know everything about anything its what you learn afterwards that counts.

Skunked, we never get skunked its the fish getting skunked as they just kept missing our lures.
(This post was edited by k2muskie on Dec 11, 2018, 2:21 PM)
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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
k2muskie wrote:


Folks things take time and for me I'll side on time as killing off a body of water well as Einstein so accurately said it if one keeps doing the same thing expecting different results its insanity. Along with wasting time and money for us now. I'll give Scofield time as I'm not about doing the same thing expecting different results.



What is it called when one keeps writing the same thing, over and over, knowing that is not what we have said should be done? Poison it many years ago and plant with a variety of fish including predators and institute slot limits similar to Strawberry and Pineview (if tiger muskies are part of the mix). Tell me the last time that was done at Scofield? I'll provide you the answer, "Never". Seems to be working just fine at Strawberry. Strawberry was poisoned in 1990 and 28 years later the chubs are under control and trophy fish are being caught and few if any are snakes.


"If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago."
- Zane Grey
(This post was edited by kentofnsl on Dec 11, 2018, 2:22 PM)
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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
k2muskie wrote:
... I’ll provide justifiable rationale. Plus I’ll do research and provide constructive feedback as an angler.

I do LISTEN and that’s an Art many don’t have now a days.

Followed by this:

k2muskie wrote:
It’s their way and the past with same results even though the results will be the same. ...

Again followed by this:

k2muskie wrote:
It’s providing justifiable rational ...


hmmmmm......something doesn't add up.


FWIW -- rotenone treatments have worked every single time they have been used. Every time. Without fail. What fails is the anglers who fail to understand the management plans associated with past treatments. Many past treatments were simply done on a regular basis as part of an ongoing plan. There was nothing wrong with that.

Today, nobody is asking for an ongoing regularly scheduled rotenone treatment. What we want is a better plan following a treatment. Those plans have been outlined numerous times -- and they would work. The problem with rotenone is not money. The problem is ignorance, or a lack of education and understanding. Anglers cry "foul!" whenever rotenone is brought up (as well as other groups). It scares them. It shouldn't. It's a great tool.


But, what do I know. I never use justifiable rationale. I play reindeer games. I never listen. And i ask for the same thing, over and over.



you guys keep being patient. Let's see how long this takes.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
  I agree , Joes Valley is a very good comparison. As mentioned the muskies are doing very well there ( and the over populated chubs are disappearing in comparison to 7-8 years ago) Also the cuthroats and splake and occasional rainbow are showing up in trophy sizes. This despite very little stocking until recently. And now I see stocking is happening again in greater numbers. Joes valley seems to really be on an upswing for quality fishing. The process has taken about 10 years now since the management plan.
Scofeild , with its awesome feed and growth rate has a chance to become a premier trophy fishery in the state in the next few years. Poisoning has happened 3 times since the 70's with very short term success. (Even though predatory cuts were stocked soon after treatment)
The DWR made no secret that this would be a 8-10 year process when the current plan was implemented, Its been 2 years... Give it due process
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Re: [Lonnie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Joes Valley is also nearly a ghost town. Too far from the Wasatch Front to be utilized by very many anglers. I check the camera quite often. I've never seen a boat.
If those cutts and splake and Tiger Muskies were being caught instead of living out their days in peace and quiet, it might be a different story. And again, why wait? Why wait with empty State Park facilities? What has been, and what will be the net loss of revenue at Scofield?


<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Lonnie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
And while it has been two years of the New Plan, it has been 18 years of dealing with chubs in Scofield for this invasion.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Your right, It has been 18 years of shoulda coulda woulda. But funding approval was an issue due to prev failures. The biological approach has just been becoming a recent idea ( at least with the use of TM and other frankinfish) But is working ,and better in the long run I believe.
I know they could have done a reboot (poison) then managed like now , and probably spead up the process ( Which was my suggestion in the survey a couple years back) But for whatever reason , the currant method was chosen. (Maybe for future management ideas on other waters) At any rate at this point theres no use crying over spilled milk as they say. Lets let it run its coarse for 3-5 more years and see if we have the success joes valley has had.
As for Joes Valley, I fished it 4 times this year , and there was no shortage of fishermen at all. On one trip I visited with 4 different groups of fishermen from 4 different states who came there(not together) specifically to target the trophy TM. Having fished JV since the dam was built in 1969 That is something that would have never happened before the current management plan.
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Re: [Northman] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Bump👍
Ice_sled
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Re: [Lonnie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Lonnie wrote:
Your right, It has been 18 years of shoulda coulda woulda. But funding approval was an issue due to prev failures..

This is not true. Funding is only an issue if the funding is not budgeted. Through propper planning, funding is available. Further, past treatments were not failures! They worked! They were part of a plan that included a cycle of treatments followed by a few years of good fishing, then some bad, then another treatment. It was part of the plan, and it worked. The managment plan failed when treatments stopped -- which was probably due to high costs of frequent treatments.




Lonnie wrote:
The biological approach has just been becoming a recent idea ( at least with the use of TM and other frankinfish) But is working ,and better in the long run I believe.

It isn't a new idea. But, you are correct that it is a better management strategy that does work better in the long run. However, it needs a "kick start". You can't just go dump a bunch of fish on top of an overpopulated bunch of chubs and expect results.

Lonnie wrote:
I know they could have done a reboot (poison) then managed like now , and probably spead up the process ( Which was my suggestion in the survey a couple years back)

Many of us know this. Even the biologists know this.


Lonnie wrote:
But for whatever reason , the currant method was chosen.

The reason is simple: public outcry. Rotenone is never the popular choice. People come out of the woodworks to fight rotenone because it is a chemical that kills all aquatic life in the target water. This is never a popular choice -- even if it the correct choice. If managers don't go about planning properly, this choice gets shot down by the uneducated public before it can ever get to the table! So, we see compromises. Unfortunately, compromise doesn't usually mean that both sides end up happy -- rather, both sides cave to a solution that neither are happy with. So we end up with an 18 year long, and counting, problem that doesn't seem to be coming to a good solution any time soon.

Lonnie wrote:
At any rate at this point theres no use crying over spilled milk as they say. Lets let it run its coarse for 3-5 more years and see if we have the success joes valley has had.

No problem. I'm fine with letting it run it's course. But I'm not going to pretend to be happy about this course, or the predicted results. I'll also cheer the day that they come back and say "we've done this long enough. It's time to do something about this issue".

FWIW -- I honestly hope the wipers work. That is the key to this whole issue. they are the fish that will knock the chub population down. The cutts won't do it and the TM's won't do it. Both cutts and tm's will utilize them, but they won't control them. Wipers will. So the success, or failure, of this plan all depends on whether or not wipers can thrive at this elevation. If they can, then we should have good things happen at Scofield, and other mid to high elevation lakes across Utah. If they fail.......well, we all already know what happens if they fail.


Lonnie wrote:
As for Joes Valley, I fished it 4 times this year , and there was no shortage of fishermen at all. On one trip I visited with 4 different groups of fishermen from 4 different states who came there(not together) specifically to target the trophy TM. Having fished JV since the dam was built in 1969 That is something that would have never happened before the current management plan.


I haven't fished Joe's Valley since 2010.




I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

(This post was edited by PBH on Dec 12, 2018, 7:11 AM)
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Re: [PBH] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
PBH wrote:

Lonnie wrote:
But for whatever reason , the currant method was chosen.


The reason is simple: public outcry. Rotenone is never the popular choice. People come out of the woodworks to fight rotenone because it is a chemical that kills all aquatic life in the target water. This is never a popular choice -- even if it the correct choice.



The reason that a rotenone treatment wasn't done was because a few members of the committee, that was formed, didn't want to lose the trophy trout that they had been catching. So, for the sake of a few people, the majority get to suffer for many years.


"If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago."
- Zane Grey
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Re: [kentofnsl] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
There were VERY few big trout being caught once the UDWR stopped the supplemental feeding. Once the fingerling Rainbows stopped, the Tiger Trout stopped reaching trophy size.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [PBH] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
PBH wrote:
The reason is simple: public outcry. Rotenone is never the popular choice. People come out of the woodworks to fight rotenone because it is a chemical that kills all aquatic life in the target water. This is never a popular choice -- even if it the correct choice.


It should be pointed out that in the Scofield angler survey, respondents who favored use of rotenone outnumbered those that opposed by a 2:1 margin! However, as is demonstrated in these endless Scofield threads, the opponents are a very vocal minority, and in this case, got their way.


Northman's point about the DWR ( more specifically, certain managers) trying to save face with their current actions is a very valid one.





I caught you a delicious bass.
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
doggonefishin wrote:


Northman's point about the DWR ( more specifically, certain managers) trying to save face with their current actions is a very valid one.


I will give the UDWR credit for preceding forward with getting the permits to do the rotenone treatment, should the current experiment not reach its desired results. Otherwise, it would take several more years after a decision was made to rotenone, and start over, to work through the approval process.


"If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago."
- Zane Grey
(This post was edited by kentofnsl on Dec 12, 2018, 9:04 AM)
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
doggonefishin wrote:
Northman's point about the DWR ( more specifically, certain managers) trying to save face with their current actions is a very valid one.

☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎


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Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
After wading through this thread for 44 posts, here is my reaction:


Sorry - I just couldn't help myself.

Smile
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 77 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” - Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don’t mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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Re: [dubob] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Go catch some perch. That, by the way, would be the one thing that would really cause the UDWR a headache at Scofield.


<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Fishrmn wrote:
Go catch some perch. That, by the way, would be the one thing that would really cause the UDWR a headache at Scofield.


&#11000;<{{{{&#10631;°>


Smile
Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 77 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
“Free men don't ask permission to bear arms.” - Glen Aldrich
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don’t mind.” - Dr. Seuss
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Re: [dubob] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Laugh




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Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Fishrmn wrote:
Go catch some perch. That, by the way, would be the one thing that would really cause the UDWR a headache at Scofield.


<{{{{°>


Well, perch ARE kryptonite for chubs. That would be one way to get rid of them. And usage for at least ice fishing would certainly go up. WinkWinkWink



While factually correct, before some dimwit takes the above too seriously and grabs his bucket, the above is written 100% tongue in cheek. Perch would also have a downside.





I caught you a delicious bass.
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Re: [doggonefishin] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
If the perch do take a foothold of Scofield, that means that the DWR will have no choice but to plant walleye to take care of the perch explosion. Crazy

P.S. Another tongue-in-cheek comment. WinkSly
---------------------------------------------
Some are haunted by the fish that got away. Others quietly plot their revenge.

-Anonymous
---------------------------------------------
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Re: [PBH] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
   I agree with most of your points, And for the record my preference would have beet to treat , then manage with preditors. However since this did not happen , whoever is to blame, A management plan was implemented 2-3 years ago. And while the ideas are not new, I believe a few lessons have been learned over the last 20 years or so . I.e which predatory fish can be most effective ect… or combo of fish ect…
Using JV as an example again , Splake were put in there 25 years ago in hopes of controlling chubs. And while this produced trophy splake in JV... it did little to control the chubs due to splake being a deep water fish most of the time . So 9-10 years ago TM were introduced which has been a 2 headed monster, splake down deep, and TM shallow which has been very effective on the chubs
Scofeild is a different animal, But with the different types of predator fish , hopefully it will work. I agree wipers could be the ace in the hole. The DWR report -says good numbers of 4-6" wipers were netted from the 1 1/2 ones planted last year , so hopefully they will thrive there
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Re: [dubob] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
Yeah.... I guess I just don’t see the humor in unelected government bureaucrats going against the recommendation of biologists, and the voting majority.

If a bureaucrat gave me some Alpo on corn chips, I wouldn’t call it nachos or think that was humorous either.

You?
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Re: [kastmaster] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
I think if they ever find perch or Northern Pike in Scofield they would be forced to call in a nuclear strike. It would make a normal rotenone reboot look like refreshing day in the park. You'd see the reservoir poisoned, drained, dried, buried, and replaced.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
I caught lots of perch in Scofield, when I was a little kid, (that has been many many moons ago), so rotenone will also remove the perch. Caught them in Strawberry also. Maybe not as spectacular as a nuclear strike, but probably easier to sell to the public.


"If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago."
- Zane Grey
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Re: [kentofnsl] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
I'm sticking to the nuclear option.



<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
We need 10k sterile yellow perch dumped in Scofied for an immediate solution.
" It's all fun and games until someone loses an 'eye'".
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Re: [SBennett] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
If only we had them.
Crazy




<{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
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Re: [k2muskie] Scofield. M.O.T.S.S. In reply to
k2muskie wrote:
I have to say an interesting conversation by the same folks.

I for one learned long ago learned get involved and do what you can being proactive and involved. I attempt to live by that, have I made mistakes oh heck yea. So with that being said:

I've been informally and formally (invited to attend meeting) hosted by the DNR and DWR fishing biologists. I listen and provide constructive input as an angler. I remain upbeat and positive at what these folks are doing and plans they are working.

Per info at a recent meeting and working with state officials I've been able to gather info from them and also being proactive have provided them with meaningful feedback.

They are making a difference at Scofield. Now the nay-sayers want instant gratification maybe listen and be involved would be my recommendation and do what you can. Stand back and look in the mirror: what are you doing to help, what constructive feedback do you provide with justifiable rationale. Heck maybe change your bait and big fish like bigger baits. Just my recommendation.

Here's info I want to share WRT Scofield after a recent meeting I attended with email follow up questions to the DWR folks over this awesome body of water that I look forward to fishing soon:

"Scofield, tiger muskies were up to 27" this fall and we netted a wiper that was 14" and very robust. That wiper was an overwintered fish. We also netted 40 wiper between 4-6" that were stocked in May at about 1.5". Chub numbers continue to trend down and their size structure is going up. This is good news. We also stocked 20,000 12"+ rainbows that anglers appear to be catching. So all in all things are going very well up there."

Finally I've attached photos and here is a link to a video on the October 5 gill netting they did. Folks things take time and for me I'll side on time as killing off a body of water well as Einstein so accurately said it if one keeps doing the same thing expecting different results its insanity. Along with wasting time and money for us now. I'll give Scofield time as I'm not about doing the same thing expecting different results. I also have seen on this Forum and throughout various other Social Media sites...well folks are appearing happy with Scofield and having fun with their families, kids, and grandkids.

Here is a link to a video that was shared with me on Scofield and I hope the link works.

https://www.youtube.com/...=HBFfVbymdCY[/quote]

Great info Kim, thanks for the link and pics. Looks like Scofield is for sure on the mend and in the coming year we can expect to see even improvements. The naysayers will never admit these are positive improvements for this lake but there is little doubt things are a changings and IMO it will take far less time than they think, as long as the DWR keep stocking the wipers and TM. If there are a few more of those bigger wipers, like the one in your pic, they will start having a bigger impact in the coming year. Hard to argue with the pics of that big tiger and bow, they are still in there and continuing to grow and just because the DRW did not have any big cutts in their nets, that does not mean they aren't in there.


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