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Re: [Dog-lover] Yuba? In reply to
BURLEY wrote:
Fished from boat for 7 hours and not a bite.

Sounds like a great fishery. DWR should leave it alone.

Dog-lover wrote:
Labeling a difference of opinion about the use of Rotenone as Ignorance seems a bit lacking in grace, compassion or respect for the opinion of others.

I didn't label the difference in opinion. I label the lack of of knowledge in a particular subject. If that hurts your feelings, I'm sorry.

The public opposition to chemical removal of fish has historically been that of a lack of knowledge (ie: ignorance). People are scared of rotenone -- because it's a chemical and because it is not selective. It kills all fish. People don't like that because they don't understand fish management. It's not opinion. It's incomprehension.

I laugh when people get upset at the use of the word "ignorance". The irony is palpable.

I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [PBH] Yuba? In reply to
Sorry for the really late response. Had my knee replaced last Wednesday and I am just know kind of able to focus on computers. Don't think I will be fishing soon.

Why are states pulling back, well a lot of really lame reasons.

I remember when Idaho killed Magic Res. out a long time ago they told fisherman to go ahead and salvage the trout. Just watch for clear eyes and red gills to indicate they were fresh enough.

A few years ago in Washington it has to not being allowed to even watch the process because of someone possibility getting sick, or claiming they got sick, and filing a law suit.

Later, also in Washington, a lake kill was canceled when locals claimed it might contaminate their drinking water and irrigation water and might contaminate their irrigation water.

With so many years of use, you would think Rotenone would be known to be safe, but we have a society that sues over everything and knows less then previous people. Think of it, we have more information available at our finger tips then ever before, but we don't know how to use it.
My bucket list has a hole in the bottom of the bucket.
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Re: [Therapist] Yuba? In reply to
Again, sorry about the late response. Probably not yet ready to respond after the knee replacement, but trying.

There are probably several reasons the virus is not being used in the US.

One, we in the US don't like taking chances. Remember viruses mutate. One such virus, the Bird Flu, kills only birds, until it once in a great while jumps to humans. Another virus, the Spanish Flu of 1918 is another example. It killed a large percentage of humans when it jumped from rats to humans. What if the carp specific virus mutated and attacked our native species? Very tiny chance, but ........ "we in the US don't like taking chances"

Two, it is expensive to get new methods approved in the US. Because we already have a cousin to the carp virus, it is unknown if our carp already have a partial immunity to it. It is possible that we could spend millions of dollars to get Governmental approval and it would not work, or not work long. In Louisiana, common carp are almost not a problem anymore because of a various factors including a native virus, but Asian/jumping carp are untouched by it. At this time, who funds the research to find out which ones it will kill, and how soon before wide spread immunity develops. "It is expensive".

Three, Four, Five, and I am sure a lot more reasons are likely to all be similar.

I wish I could direct you to a specific journal, article, etc., but most of my knowledge has come from working directly with various State fisheries departments. My work for the US Army Corps of Engineers, as well as many individual State agencies has exposed me to things that they discuss internally but seldom make it to main stream journals. I feel it a great honor to have spent hundreds of hours, as a professional as well as a volunteer, talking to Federal and State experts dealing with endangered and threatened fish species. Most of them are much like you and I, care for the quality of the fishery, want to improve it, unable to break through the red tape of politics.

I hope this helps some, and again, I wish I had been able to respond quicker.
My bucket list has a hole in the bottom of the bucket.
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Re: [Anglinarcher] Yuba? In reply to
I've read this thread with some interest, and wasn't sure anyone would be interested in the below comments, but I guess I will share.

In my occupation, I am required every 3 years to take some continuing education modules to maintain a certain type of Federal accreditation. To that end, this time around, I had the chance to take one on infectious diseases of carp, koi, and commercial goldfish and the government response to an outbreak. The carp herpesvirus was prominently discussed. Here are some points that may be of interest.

1. The carp herpesvirus only affects carp and koi. It does not affect goldfish, grass carp, jumping carp and so far as we know, other fish. It would not be an option for the problems in the Midwest and Great lakes with jumping carp.

2. When introduced to a naive population (one that has never been exposed) the case fatality rate is about 70%. However, survivors become lifelong carriers. The population would probably recover to some extent, with the offspring of the survivors. All would be carriers. So it probably isn't a miracle cure for carp issues in most situations like Yuba.

3. Due to potential for damage to commercial fish (especially koi) operations, carp herpesvirus is considered a reportable disease by the USDA. This means that in the event of an outbreak, specific steps would be taken by the governemnt to limit spread. This also means that government approval for a deliberate exposure in a fishery would be even more difficult to obtain.

4. Because of the chronic carrier state that would be expected in the carp population and the lack of a 100% kill in a treated lake, the virus would be impossible to remove from the fishery in the event that some unforeseen problem arose with its use.

5. The CE module did not specifically discuss the Australian variant but all of the above issues would remain a concern and commercial fish growers would likely be even more adamant in not having it here in the US.

6. Could the virus "tip the balance" of carp with other species at Utah Lake, which is the stated goal of the mechanical removal currently done? Possibly, but as stated above, there would be definite concerns about using such a tool. I would see it as a last resort.

I caught you a delicious bass.
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Re: [doggonefishin] Yuba? In reply to
doggonefishin -- good stuff. Thanks for those comments.


I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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