Fishing Forum
Skip to Content


Fishing Forum > Utah Fishing Forum : Utah Fishing General >

Injured Cutts at Berry

Kokanee Fishing Tackle
fishing FLASY FISH LURES fishing
Report Post | Register to Reply
Injured Cutts at Berry
After catching a couple rainbows at Hyrum Tuesday that had bad damage to their mouths from being caught, I have a question about this Saturday's trip to Strawberry. If you catch a slot Cutt and he will obviously die from hook injury, is it better to be legal and throw it back to die or keep it and try to plead your case to the DWR? To throw it back seems like wanton waste of game which is illegal also, is it not? Trout are so prone to dying after being caught. Anybody know the legalities of this?
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
The concerned sportsman within us rebels against killing a fish that doesn't need to be killed...or one that is going to die anyway even if it is illegal to keep it. However, if you need to justify releasing an obviously terminal cutt you may rationalize it by knowing that mortality of released fish is a factor used in planning the plantings and the harvest numbers.

But bless you for your concern for those poor wimpy cutts.

Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [TubeDude] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
I agree with TD. Anticipated mortality is figured into the regulations. A released fish that does expire will just become part of the forage available to the scavengers in the lake. The crayfish will applaud your efforts to release the cutthroat unharmed if it later dies and the crayfish feast on the carcass.

Ospreys and eagles will also consume dead fish that are floating in a lake. The released fish that dies will not really go to waste.

BTW, good luck with trying to find a Conservation Officer that will cut you some slack with the regulation. In my tenure I heard the excuse many times and I had to be firm and explain the ways to minimize injury to a hooked fish.

When using bait, try to set your hook quickly so there is less chance the fish will swallow your presentation. Use barbless hooks on your lures but remember you'll need to keep a tight line to avoid losing the fish. A pair of needle nose pliers can be used to pinch down the barb on a hook and make it much easier to release a fish unharmed. British Columbia requires the use of barbless hooks when fishing for salmon and I have adjusted to the regulation over the last few years. You may lose a few fish due to the barbless hooks, but it will greatly aid in releasing a fish without injury.


"Fish TopH2O and your skill will surface!"
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
Here is an observation from last week. I was at the cleaning station - 10pm. There was a guy there cleaning 7 slot cutts. He looked at me and said, "they were going to die anyway, I just had to keep em".
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [brookie] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
A few years ago I would have told him, "Press hard there's four copies. Yours is the pink one".

Mike


"Fish TopH2O and your skill will surface!"
(This post was edited by TopH2O on Jul 13, 2017, 3:57 PM)
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [TopH2O] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
Thanks for the replies from all. I seldom keep trout and have to give them away to my kinfolk when I do. Raised on bass, crappie, and bluegill in the south. It is true that the Cutts will end up in the food chain of others and better not to keep them. I think that I will smash the barbs on the lures that I loan to the vets to help limit the possibility of severe injury.
BTW will the rod and reels they get be spooled with line?
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
Hey Burley. Thanks for your willingness to help with the Vet fishing event. It's truly a noble cause. The equipment provided for the participants should be ready to fish, line and all. Have fun and good luck.

Mike


"Fish TopH2O and your skill will surface!"
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [TopH2O] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
You can make any fish that you catch die from its injuries. Therefore, you could argue that you had to keep them because they were going to die anyway. It's not an excuse. If it's not within the regulations, you gotta release it.



<{{{{{°>


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [TopH2O] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
What happens to the fish when you cut the line as close to the hook as you can and release the fish. What is the survival rate then.
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [lovetofish] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
It depends on several factors. If the hook is lodged in a vital area and causes excessive bleeding, the fish might die as a result of blood loss. If the hook is not causing bleeding but it is still stuck where you can't remove it without further injuring the fish, cutting the line as short as possible might give the fish a chance to survive.

The type of hook can also make a difference. If the hook is a normal, non-nickle or stainless steel, it will eventually rust to the point where it doesn't cause additional injury. The process of the hook deteriorating is quicker in the salt water of the ocean but the process will occur in fresh water. If you pull a hook out of the throat of a fish you will probably cause tissue damage that will kill the fish.

The hook removal tools with a bulge on the end and grooves to move down your line will sometimes help with removing a hook even when it's lodged in a fish's throat. My experience with deeply hooked trout is that they often die if the hook is removed. In these cases it is probably a better idea to cut your line as close to the hook as possible and release the fish. In waters without minimum size restrictions, it's a good idea to keep any deeply hooked fish.

Mike


"Fish TopH2O and your skill will surface!"
(This post was edited by TopH2O on Jul 13, 2017, 8:29 PM)
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [TopH2O] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to

In my 50+ years of fishing, I have caught several slimmers, I mean trout, with hooks in them. Some from being broken off in battle, some from being cut off. Actually the latest I have heard is that leaving about 6” of line past the nose keeps the hook from rolling to the side and blocking the food channel.

One of the monster Bows that my mom caught had at least 6 hooks in it, in various stages of decay. Most appeared to be ready to fall out. The fish was in excellent condition.

As for “going to die anyway”, it just is not that simple. Years ago while fishing in Colorado I fished a remote stream every weekend one winter. I caught a Bow with one gill hanging out the side of the gill plate. Now, that is considered a death sentence, or so we have been told. I was using barbless flies so I released the fish, without further harm. I caught that fish several times that winter, with the gill hanging out, each time with the gill becoming closer to falling off. That fish was in great shape.

Now, this WOULD BE ILLEGAL, but I had a boat until recently that had an awesome aerator. I would often toss 3 frozen bottles of water in it (large bottles) and toss my “going to die anyway” Bows into it until I got back to shore and a cooler. I assure you, with all of that extra oxygen and the cold flowing water, most of those “going to die anyway” COULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED. Usually they were in so good a condition that I needed a net to get them out of the live well.

In summary, if legal, keep them. If not, don’t keep them but give them the best chance to survive.
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
When was the last time you were checked at the Berry? Been there a lot never checked by a CO only college kids filling out surveys.
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [TopH2O] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
Just an FYI for all....scientifically, using barbless hooks over barbed hooks really doesn't have an impact on hooking mortality. Many studies over the years have shown that no real advantage is gained in terms of fish survival. Though barbless regulations have, at times, become popular with some fishermen, they really don't affect survival rates of released fish. Ultimately, barbless hook restrictions are really no more than a social restriction that make some fishermen feel better about releasing fish. Some studies to read:

https://henrysfork.org/...rtality%20review.pdf

http://www.westernsportsman.com/...y-catch-and-release/

http://www.tandfonline.com/...3.CO%3B2?src=recsys&
The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [wormandbobber] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
Interesting articles, thanks for posting.


“To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice.”
Confucius
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
This document has a lot of good information on releasing fish and hooking mortality. I strongly suggest you read it.

https://www.ceh.ac.uk/...ial%20conscience.pdf

I would also suggest that those who illegally keep fish inside the slot are poachers and should be ticketed. Slot limits are in place for good reason and should be followed regardless of whether the fish dies or not. Reasoning that these fish should be kept is akin to harvesting a deer or elk without a tag because it is sick and will die anyway. Justification in breaking the law can be made in almost any case....
The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
What technique are you using that's causing "bad damage" to the fish?

I've caught hundreds of cutts at Strawberry, and all but a couple swam back down seemingly healthy with minimal bleeding. Granted that's almost exclusively with single-hook lures. But even with powerbait you can use salmon egg hooks, and even little planters in community ponds end up mostly OK.

I would suggest maybe trying something different if you're killing lots of fish you can't legally keep.
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [dregs] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
I don't recall reading where the damage was his. Did I miss something?

I have seen released fish that others had mauled.
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [BURLEY] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
BURLEY wrote:

If you catch a slot Cutt and he will obviously die from hook injury, is it better to be legal and throw it back to die or keep it and try to plead your case to the DWR?

If you keep one and you are caught the only question to ask is how much will the fine be and where do I pay it. No amount of pleading will result in not receiving a fine. At least that is what I have observed when I have seen guys keep them and try to explain that it was deep hooked and going to die.


“To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice.”
Confucius
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [lifeshort] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
lifeshort wrote:
When was the last time you were checked at the Berry? Been there a lot never checked by a CO only college kids filling out surveys.

I get checked about once a year. In fact my last trip up to the Berry a few weeks ago I was checked over at East Portal. He checked my licence, asked to see and fish ( didn't have any), and asked how the fishing had been.

Mark
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [dregs] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
dregs wrote:

I've caught hundreds of cutts at Strawberry, and all but a couple swam back down seemingly healthy with minimal bleeding. Granted that's almost exclusively with single-hook lures. .
Just another FYI....according to the available research (as the links above verify--take a look at page 13 of the last one I posted), hooking mortality is worse with single hooks compared to treble hooks because treble hooks are more likely to hook fish in non-lethal areas. So, if you are concerned about killing fish, lures with treble hooks are better!
The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [dregs] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
If you could actually read my post, I said that they were rainbows not cutts, that they were caught at Hyrum, not Strawberry, and they were of legal size because there is no size limit at Hyrum. Stop assuming that you are better than others. The fish were injured when the rapala caught on the landing net and the fish continued to thrash about. Try to keep your remarks productive and not critical.
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [wormandbobber] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
The link you posted above 'Western Sportsman' did in fact say that a treble hook lure was usually too large to fit way inside (trout's) mouth, so wouldn't cause as much injury as a single hook......However......from what I was reading, it was talking about Lures with treble hooks, not treble hooks with bait......the treble hooks I've seen some bait fishers use are Tiny, and are easily swallowed with whatever bait is on them......Not the hook to use for successful CR, but you might be in that 50% range if the line is cut immediately without dragging the fish out of the water....If anyone is trying to catch (trout) to consume, a very small treble hook, with bait, is very effective, and I have nothing against that.....A single hook, baited, will almost always be easier to remove from a hooked fish, than a treble hook, baited, from a hooked fish, thus less stress and mortality on that released fish.....if that's how one is fishing......Guluk....
Report Post | Register to Reply
Re: [Jmorfish] Injured Cutts at Berry In reply to
That too is actually debatable..."Large hooks may be harder to swallow, but may cause greater tissue damage at the wound site. Gjernes et. al. speculated that the greater depth and gape of larger hooks may lead to deeper hook penetration and greater risk of contact with critical organs." In other words multiple studies indicate that smaller treble hooks may, in fact, be better for fish even in passive bait fishing compare to active bait fishing.
http://www3.carleton.ca/...holomew%20Review.pdf

Nevertheless, what isn't debatable is that bait fishing is significantly more likely to cause fish mortality compared to fly and artificial lure fishing.
The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton