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Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news

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Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news
This is pretty important. We could lose ease of access to a lot of great places via intimidation if this thing goes through. Read this, and use the easy form at the bottom to tell your lawmaker how you'd like them to vote. Looks like it will go down Monday.

http://www.idahowildlife.org/...-hearing-and-beyond/
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Thank you for updating the people on this forum. I have written my letter to my two representatives.

Physion
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I contacted my representatives! Thanks!
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Sad news is that the reps here in Bingham County are so bought and paid for by the Idaho Farm Bureau and against the Sportsmen and women of Idaho that it doesn't do anyone in Bingham County to ask their reps to vote against or change this bill. Same vote against Idaho Sportsmen and women happened years ago on the Outfitter and Guiding issue and I and many others worked so hard to get the Bingham County reps and other so vote against that bill, but, the Idaho Farm Bureau had so much money tied up in the legislatures pockets and Governor that we couldn't budge anyone no matter how hard we tried. I just hope that someone somewhere in the State has common sense on this, but, I am not holding my breath.
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Re: [duksnfish] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Apparently HB 658 passed the Idaho House today. Now is the time to send a note to your state senator. Our comments may not change the outcome, but if we don't try we shouldn't complain about what happens. I just sent an email to my senator.

Physion
(This post was edited by physion on Mar 13, 2018, 9:00 AM)
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Re: [physion] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Do you guys allow hunting, fishing, trapping and recreation on your property? Any issues with (intentional) trespassing? I read the entire bill and it definitely favors the rights of the private property owners. Itís somewhat complex. Iím not sure it simplifies the law as stated.
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I live on a standard lot in town so fishing, hunting, and trapping are not available unless you want to hunt or trap the neighbor's cats. Be my guest. However, I have had kids playing in the front yard and errant toys land in the back yard. Not a big deal for me.

I do my best to respect private property. However, I do make a very occasional mistake and do not want to be in an expensive lawsuit over an unintentional or even a "near miss" trespass incident.
(This post was edited by physion on Mar 13, 2018, 8:40 PM)
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I read some of the comments supporting the bill from some of the legislators, and one said that in today's world, any hunter or sportsman can purchase a GPS and know where they are all the time. Falsehood with this is that in timbered areas and areas of canyons and other tough topography, signals can't get out and that doesn't work. In addition, I challenge that legislator to take a GPS unit out and know exactly where he is at any given time due to the error factor in any GPS unit. I spent over 40 years of my life working outdoors having to know where I was at all the time, and short of a Cadastral survey, no way can you know exactly if you are on a certain piece of land. This bill is all bogus and it just goes to show once again how little support the recreationist, sportsmen and women, and Fish and Game get in this state from our legislature. With out hunting, fishing, recreation, etc in this state, many many business's wouldn't be here today. There are already laws on the book to handle this, use them. I did send an e-mail to Senator Bair who is chairman over the Senate Resources committee, but, he is so deep into the Idaho Farm Bureaus pocket no way will he vote down this bill. In fact, he was one of the Senators a year or so ago that influenced the Governor to get rid of a couple Idaho Fish and Game commissioners because they wouldn't do what he wanted with the big game license draw tags. He scooted free and there is no way anyone can take him on to oust him from his seat because of the heavy ties he has to non-outdoor business and Farm Bureau. All we can do is pray and keep pressure on Otter to not sign the bill, which I think is a wing and a prayer. Good luck to everyone with this.
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
We're getting through to some. Keep the pressure up. They're amending the bill now.

Tell everyone you know to call and write their senators. Takes 25 seconds on this website, though a personal email or letter is better.

http://www.idahowildlife.org/...nate-amending-order/
(This post was edited by nijimasu on Mar 15, 2018, 8:44 AM)
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Very cool, finally everyone, or it seems everyone, who actually will be or could be impacted from this insidious bill is being listened to. And for once, maybe, just maybe it has gotten through that the Fish and Game is not a beating sack, but actually someone who doesn't have an endless budget, no thanks to the Idaho legislature and the Governor.

I sent my personal e-mails to Sen. Bair out of Bingham County and do ya think he or his staff, whoever that is, even responded with a thank you for your input, Nope, Nada, zilch. But, hopefully other senators around the state actually listen to their constituents and will do the right thing.

Thanks for the update.
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Re: [duksnfish] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
It's sad that some of you are so neglected by your legislators and they don't represent your wishes. Sounds like people need to get out and vote out the incumbents. I'm lucky, my 2 Reps and Senator all respond to every phone call and email I make. And all my legislators are against 658!
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I emailed and called (none of them answered but I left messages) my reps again this morning and Toone emailed me back and Stennett called me back. Toone and Stennett were not in favor, especially the civil trespass portion, but I have not heard a peep from Miller. I know who not to vote for this next election. This whole mess started with those Wilkes Texas idiots...thanks Texas, you can have the Wilkes brothers back. Keep up the pressure everyone. This bill is a direct frontal assault on all people who enjoy the outdoors by the wealthy few who want to lock everyone out of what is ours.
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Re: [AverysAdventure] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
As I have stated many times before on Sen. Bair, he is so deep into the Idaho Farm Bureau that nothing any normal sportsman or woman would like he would vote for. He is a former farmer, agri. person and has something up his *** against Idaho Fish and Game and anyone else who wants to go against agriculture in Idaho. Not to say this bill is solely against agriculture, but, it is supported by the Idaho Farm Bureau. And Rep. Van Ordin again is invested in big agriculture and finally someone has had enough of her voting record to run against her this time. I will vote against her and sounds like, I hope, the number going against her is increasing. Hope there is a chance.

I am glad some of your reps will at least respond instead of ignoring us, but, hopefully, there will be an open voter forum this year where Sen. Bair is at to answer questions and I hope I can get one in.
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Re: [duksnfish] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
If an illegal alien gets busted for trespassing does he get deported?
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Re: [Fish-Offender] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Fish-Offender wrote:
This bill is a direct frontal assault on all people who enjoy the outdoors by the wealthy few who want to lock everyone out of what is ours.

Iím not sure I understand that statement. Are you referring to public ground, which I donít think the trespassing laws preclude you from access, or are you thinking youíre entitled to access on private property (and the wealthy few are attempting to stop you)? What exactly is ďoursĒ?

So you know .....Iím a sportsman, but also a landowner with land which is desirable for fishing and hunting. I spend way too much time dealing with the entitled mentality who donít bother to ask or understand where they are....after they go through a gate or cut a fence to get there. I get tired of the answers I get when I confront someone trespassing. I try to be nice when I ask em if they know theyíre trespassing, but these answers will get you run off, ticketed or arrested.

- ďitís ok, I know the owner and he lets me hunt here, but you better goĒ

- ď I have the right to be hereĒ. (One of my favs)

- ď itís alright, why are you being an a hole?

- ď Iím just cutting across here to get to the public groundĒ

And more that defy logic.

Do I agree with the current bill? No, but I do want trespassing laws which when enforced send a message to the idiots who respect nothing and expect everything for nothing. The only person who asked permission last year came to my house asked who owned the field with all the deer. When I said I did and did not allow hunting he pleaded with me (and offered to pay) to let him drive out into the field so his daughter could roll down the window of his pu and shoot one out the window. I thought he was kidding.

Iím sure my viewpoint is likely not popular here, but I respect your viewpoint (from the funding and accidental trespassing perspective), so I ask you try to see it from the landowners perspective.
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I had problems with a land owner . I was hunting a patch of sage brush . It was not posted or fenced . I won't hunt any field that is cultivated or fenced without permission. My hot is
Spot is people who post public ground to keep the public out . I have had to contact BLM several times for posted property and locked gates on public ground . Never heard of any tickets or fines on those people , they could be fined $5,000 dollars for doing this .
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Hi, MackayGuy,

I have no desire to trespass on private land and I respect the landowner's right to manage and care for the land. I have seen and object to the damage some have done to private land or property. However, I do have some concerns about the bill. If the land is not clearly posted, even a good gps will not guarantee that I will not accidentally wander onto private land. More worrisome, if I am near private land, I understand that the bill allows the landowner to sue (or threaten to sue), and I cannot recover my legal costs even if I am shown to be completely innocent. That portion of the bill is out of balance. In Valley County, a landowner from Texas hired a guard and confronted an individual using a national forest road that went through the private land. The landowner was attempting to prevent people from using public property. In that example, the wealthy landowner can afford to sue, and few individuals can pay the legal cost to prove their innocence. The landowner can effectively block people from using adjacent public land. Penalties for inappropriate actions should be balanced.
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Re: [physion] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Physion .....I agree with you that the bill is out of balance. I remember when the wealthy (Carol King was a big violator) blocked access to public lands in central Idaho by gating public roads which went through their properties. And of course they had deep pockets to drag out any lawsuits to open it up. And youíre also right about unposted unfenced ground. How would you know for sure. I know of a couple places here where people have fenced in blm ground and posted it private. BLM does nothing about it. I hope the bill gets amended to remove the ridiculous imbalance.
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
MackayGuy,

I grew up on a farm that had abundant waterfowl and upland game and we dealt with trespassers so I fully understand your predicament. I also agree trespassers should have much stiffer penalties for infractions. What I absolutely do not agree with is the wording of this bill that targets innocent people. I have read all 21 pages of this bill and frankly, it's scary what it could do to law abiding citizens.

For example, last fall I explored some new territory that I've always wanted to connect to another area I hunt frequently I drove up a forest service road and took a few side roads that were clearly marked on the map and my gps. After several miles I went over a ridge and wound down some switchbacks and saw the other main road I wanted to connect to and go back to the highway on. Keep in mind, every road I drove on was on my map and gps. As I got to the bottom of the draw I pulled up to the gate and there was a large metal sign on it. I got out of my truck and saw the gate was padlocked and the sign read "no trespassing". I about crapped my pants! I didn't cross through a single gate on my drive and yet there I was on private property behind a locked gate. The land I had come in on was clearly BLM land and yet somewhere I had inadvertently crossed some property line that was not marked nor fenced from the direction I had approached it.

Under bill 658 I could potentially be a felon. If I had crossed three property boundaries it would be a felony and I could be sued several thousand dollars not to mention jail time. Under HB 658 the landowners are no longer required to mark the boundaries every 660', just corners and main right of way gates. The civil trespass is my major gripe with this bill. Why not keep the existing law and just significantly enhance the penalties? Under the current law there is intent required to to be punished. The new wording deletes all uses of intent and basically gives ultimate authority to the landowner if they "think" someone is guilty, then they are. I don't like that one bit. I avoid private property because I respect landowners and I like solitude.

How often as an outdoorsman do we go cross country on foot or horseback? Under the new law, how are we to know if that fence we encounter is a BLM fence seperating grazing sections or if it's private property? Property corners can be miles apart and with no right of ways anywhere around, how does your average joe know what's private and what's not if its not marked? The honest outdoorsman is locked out due to fear it may be private and they don't want the risk of a felony because the property wasn't marked. That's how we get shut out by the wealthy few (this whole bill got started by out of staters from Texas, Wilkes brothers- those are the main landowners I was referring to by the wealthy remark). They can sue our pants off and if we win, we are still responsible for court costs/attourneys fees. Growing up on our farm, we always marked our fencepost tops and hung new no trespassing signs when the old ones faded. That will at least keep the honest guy out and if you catch some one trespassing under those circumstances, throw the book at them.

I absolutely do not feel entitled to access private property, but I do feel like I am entitled to being able to enjoy my public land without fear of trespassing unknowingly and being punished because private property will not be required to be marked. I'm sorry you have to deal with idiots who have no respect for your property. I fully agree we need stiffer penalties, but not the way HB 658 outlines it. The current law is clear, but the penalties need to be stepped up for the guilty big time. Good luck and I hope a solution comes out that allows you to enjoy ownership of your property that significantly reduces your trespassing issues. Happy trails.
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Every time I have reported posted public ground , it was taken care of . Land opened back up but no punishment for doing it . So they have nothing to loose
(This post was edited by curt69 on Mar 17, 2018, 10:16 PM)
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Re: [curt69] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Supposedly, the bill has been amended with little actual affect or change on sportsmen etc. I don't know what our legislature is doing, but maybe it's time to try and get some voted out. That is easier said than done as many or our legislators are entrenched in the system and don't really care about most "non-agricultural" voters. Ag is where the money is at and that is where they vote.

Here is a link to the Post Register article on the update. I hope everyone can read it.
http://www.postregister.com/...nds-trespassing-bill
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
Here' the Spokesman-Review's summation from the 21st

http://www.spokesman.com/...ved-others-rejected/

I honestly can't believe it's gone this far. No reason to trust that Idaho government works. Time to vote for new people. In the meantime, call your senators and the governor. Don't think someone else will do it or that it doesn't matter.

Below is the letter I sent Governor Otter before I called his office and left a polite but to-the-point message to the same effect:

Governor Otter,

I'm very disappointed in the way this new "trespass bill" has been pushed through this session. As a sportsman, but not a huge landowner, it's very easy to see this law is to my detriment and to the rich boys' (particularly the ones from Texas) benefit. I've followed this from its first mention, and though I certainly agree with larger fines and more enforcement of current trespass law, the majority of this new bill does nothing but make outdoor recreation treacherous and intimidating for the average Idahoan.

Our present trespass law is clear and fair. That is the consensus of law enforcement, most landowners, and recreationists. There is no need to modify it, save to provide for better enforcement and perhaps more stringent penalties. The current proposal will allow the abuses that are common it other states- that our current law was designed to keep out- to run rampant it what has been a sensible, fair state.

Please listen to law enforcement, sensible landholders, hunters, fishermen, and all recreationists in Idaho should this disgraceful bill shamefully make it as far as your desk.

If we're going to create something as economically far-reaching as a new trespass law, it needs to be done with fair input from all interested parties- just like the one currently in place was.

Dale Garrard,
Meridian
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Re: [MackayGuy] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I don't think anyone would disagree with your desires to keep your private ground private- in fact I'm pretty sure all good sportsmen would like to see trespassing violations under current law treated more seriously (stricter fines, etc.).

However, this new law does away with the responsibility of landowners to take care of their own land - they no longer have to identify uncultivated areas with orange paint or any other posting; they can prosecute anyone anywhere and say they were trespassing- and even if the accused is guilty, the accusers don't have to pay the legal fees of the accused- even though in a reverse scenario guilty trespassers do have to pay fees of wronged landowners.

Compound this with the "stand your round" legislation, and we've got a serious intimidation factor going on. In essence, good sportsmen will shy away from public areas just because they border private- thus surrendering to those landowners those surrounding areas that are actually paid for by the public. That is the gripe here- and that is exactly what the Wilkes brothers and other over-reaching landowners are pushing for with this.
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Re: [nijimasu] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
I don't disagree with you one bit. And, I know many that have sent an e-mail into their representatives. Some have gotten responses but many haven't. I know some want to vote some of their unresponsive and self centered reps out, but, when they are so entrenched into the money, especially some by the Idaho Farm Bureau and the Agricultural community, local and state level, that that's all they see and hear.

I just cant believe that our legislators and Governor Otter wont listen to law enforcement on this issue. And, for some reason, the Governor and our legislature forget just how much money comes into this state from recreation. MILLIONS yet, they just poo poo that off and look at the small pool of agricultural lands (private property owners) that are actually supporting this bill. In comparison to the actual number of land owners who don't want the burden of this type of law on the books and who were fine with the old law. In fact, the old law actually allowed many to actually see what they had when they had to go out and actually mark their property boundary.

I just hope some will come to their senses, but, my hopes are diminishing daily. One thing that I did, was to ask each of the 3 prominent individuals running for Governor if they support this bill, and guess what, not a response 1 from any of them. Lt. Governor Little especially should be hard pressed on this one because if he gets elected, it will be a continuation of Otters policies of ignoring sportsmen and recreationists in Idaho.

Keep up the pressure and keep your fingers crossed this dies or really gets amended.
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Re: [duksnfish] Trespassing Law up for votes- bad news In reply to
So just a little update, I haven't received a response from any of the candidates for Governor on this issue, but, I have had a pretty heated discussion with whomever is taking care of Raul Labrador's Facebook page. He does not have a place for anyone to ask an open question and get an open answer from Raul. That person says that everything is asked privately via phone call or e-mail and responded to that way. Whomever it is said they don't see a problem that why and wont put up a place on his Facebook page for voters to ask questions. Why should we vote for someone who wont allow Idaho Voters to ask an open question for everyone to see? I definitely wont vote for Labrador, and I would encourage everyone reading this to pass it on if we cant get an open honest answer from Raul on this issue for everyone to see.
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