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Re: [TubeDude] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
TubeDude wrote:
The best example I can think of...for "what if" laws...is the new Utah blood alcohol limit of .05. Do the legislators really believe they will deter the folks who routinely get blasted and then get behind the wheel? I doubt it. Although the law just recently became active there have been remarkably few impairment arrests in which blood alcohol levels were not above the old mark of .08. And there continue to be horrendous accidents caused by drivers who are substantially greater than that.[/b]

Why does a picture of Jim Accosta standing in front of a border wall stating "nobody is trying to cross the border here. Why do we need this wall?" keep entering my mind??



thanks for the reply. Amid all that fluff, I got this:

A. I'd like to use live white bass at Utah Lake.
B. I'd like to use live chubs at Strawberry.
C. I'd like to use live chubs at Scofield.


as for A: Have you taken a proposal to the RAC? My personal recommendation would be to give them more than just "I want to catch more fish, and using live white bass is the answer". I would definitely encourage including some solution that would ensure that live fish are not transported away from the lake. Good luck. :)

B & C: chubs are not a desired species in either reservoir. In both instances, chubs have proved historically to be quite the problem in both. Current management strategies are in place to prevent chub populations from thriving. Why on earth would we want to allow (encourage??) people using live chubs in those lakes?!


D: Tiger Salamanders. I propose that we petition the State to end the banned use of live salamanders / waterdogs. They do not present the issues with native fish species or disease concerns. I'm with you on this one. :)



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [TubeDude] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
TubeDude wrote:
"What if" laws tend to punish or restrict the law-abiding majority in an effort to curtail the lawless minority. And guess what. The offenders continue to ignore the laws anyway...and those who would benefit by looser restrictions continue to do without.

Huh? I am not following this line of thinking. Aren't all laws basically "What if?" laws? Look at fishing regulations, for example...don't we have rules governing how many fish people take home to prevent overharvest? Isn't that a "What if?" scenario? Shouldn't the harvest regulations just allow whatever harvest you or I deem acceptable then? Aren't harvest regulations just punishing us as law-abiding citizens? What about tackle restrictions? Like fly and lure only? Or, size restrictions like slot limits? Don't they also punish the majority of anglers and benefit the few who break the laws anyway? Don't such restrictions have their place and value for the benefit of fisheries?

Basically, you are ok with the law saying fish shouldn't be moved from one water to another water (isn't that a "what if?" law?) but not the rule that makes it more difficult to move fish. So, which "What if?" laws are ok and which are not? I mean isn't the first law regarding the movement of live fishes from one water to the next about what if the transported fish establish a viable population?
The moment we begin to fear the opinions of others and hesitate to tell the truth that is in us, and from motives of policy are silent when we should speak, the divine floods of light and life no longer flow into our souls.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton
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Re: [PBH] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
"B. I'd like to use live chubs at Strawberry.
C. I'd like to use live chubs at Scofield."

Wrong. I don't fish either lake. Too many stupid trout and not enough good species.
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Re: [wormandbobber] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
The summary of wormbob's position A thru Z: You're against live bait.

You make good points about transportable diseases and pests like veligers. But regulations could be written to prohibit moving any bait or bait water from its home lake. Other than that issue, I don't see any problem with allowing the use of live bait. Catching live minnows to use as bait removes those individuals from the lake's inventory, it doesn't add.

That's as far into this debate as I'm going to get.



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Re: [TubeDude] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
But what about the scenario laid out in post # 21?

I am pretty sure everybody posting here picks and chooses which laws or regulations they are going to abide by on a daily basis.

Almost impossible to get though a day with out being in violation of something.
(This post was edited by castnshoot on Jan 17, 2019, 1:57 PM)
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Re: [RockyRaab] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
RockyRaab wrote:

You make good points about transportable diseases and pests like veligers. But regulations could be written to prohibit moving any bait or bait water from its home lake. Other than that issue, I don't see any problem with allowing the use of live bait.

Reminds me of the rumor of Mary Todd Lincoln being asked, "Other than that how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?". That is a very large, "Other than that issue..."


"The biggest challenge after success is shutting up about it"
- Criss Jami
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Re: [castnshoot] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
""TD, as much time as you have spent on the water I am sure you have had plenty of opportunity’s like this. How have you reacted when a perfect little bait sized fish ended up in your tube,, and you know there is a big “finicky” bass lurking near by that has refused all your offerings. Now be honest.:)"

Busted. Most of us who fish in perchified waters have had aggressive little tykes wrap their lips around a hook point and hitch a ride to the top. See the attached picture of a "15 incher". And there have been enough times that the trip to the surface has been interrupted by a big nasty predator that it is no big surprise.


The way I apply the laws against not using live bait is that there is no law that says just how fast I have to retrieve a small fish I have hooked. And if some stupid bass chooses to contest ownership of that foolish little fishie...well, I can't be responsible for what happens to him. It's all on him...or her.


A few years ago...when Jordanelle still had a lot of perch and some hefty smallies, it was quite common to experience having small perch snarfed by big smallies on the way in. I won't name names but I know of one formerly active BFT member who "fudged" a little on one day in Rock Cliff arm and caught several smallies that may have been records. Law abiding citizen that he is, however, he kissed them all and sent them back down.
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Re: [SBennett] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
I'll contribute to the original request for fun live minnow experiences......and mine is here in Utah!

I took the kids fishing several years ago to Newton reservoir to do some perch jerking. The perch fishing at the dam was fast and furious for 4-8" perch and my little girls were loving it. While my oldest daughter was reeling in a 6" perch a musky exploded on it just as she was about 2 feet away from the bank with it. She screamed, but held on and I started helping her. I thought that the musky would let go of the perch for sure, but it kept hanging on, so she settled in for the long haul. To make a long story short, we ended up landing that musky because the perch was down its gullet and the line was wrapped up in its head and gills a bit ( it must have rolled a bit and tangled itself).

So....my daughter caught a 36" musky on a "live minnow" in Utah by complete accident.....and loved every terrifying moment of it. We have had this happen several times since, but never landed another that way.

Mike

P.S. I wish we could use live minnows harvested in the waters we are fishing from, but it's not that big of a deal to me. I've fished many states with live bait and can't think of too many times that it would have been a deal breaker to not have them....just easier fishing when we did have them.
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Re: [gmwahl] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
Good story. I may have wrestled the some tiger for a small largemouth.
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Re: [BURLEY] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
Not exactly unheard of to have a tiger muskie chomp down a runt crappie you're reeling in at Pineview, either.



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
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Re: [TubeDude] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
Well, I'm gonna go old school on this one and hope some of you will join me?
Page 42 of the 2019 Fishing guidebook asks for any requests for changes to the rules to be submitted in three easy ways.
One of the three easy ways is to Mail your idea to:

Sport Fisheries Coordinator
Utah Division of Wildlife Resources
P.O. Box 146301
Salt Lake City,Utah 84114-6301

I will suggest the idea of allowing the use of live minnows in the same body of water that the minnows were captured in.

Anyone else in?
I will reimburse the cost of your stamp!
" It's all fun and games until someone loses an 'eye'".
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Re: [SBennett] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
I have lobbied for this change for years...one on one with several DWR biologists. And I have also brought it up at RAC meetings. But all I have gotten is rolling eyes and all the standard rhetoric on why it can't be done.


Thankfully, there seems to be more openness these days about soliciting input from the angling public. We finally got them to okay the use of corn...and the first time I brought that up at a RAC meeting I thought I was going to be lynched.


Your suggestion to mail in a suggestion is noted. But for we of the digital world it will be easier and possibly more effective to reply to the annual survey posted online by DWR in May. Also from the page you suggested in the Guide Book:



3. Share your idea while completing
the Fishing Proposals survey. There
will be a blank field at the end of
the survey where you can submit
ideas. The survey will be available at
wildlife.utah.gov/fisheries-surveys.html
by the middle of May 2020.


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Re: [TubeDude] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
I plan on mentioning it there also.
I guess I was hoping that sometimes a handwritten note would be taken more seriously. You know how grandma would prefer a card versus an email thanking her for the $5 birthday check...
On a side note, I have not tried corn yet but I intend to.
I fish for kokes a lot but just got addicted about four years ago. I have always had Berkeley maggots at my disposal, which work great, but am going to put the maggots and corn head to head this year to see if one outfishes the other.
Fun times ahead!
" It's all fun and games until someone loses an 'eye'".
(This post was edited by SBennett on Jan 26, 2019, 8:02 AM)
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Re: [SBennett] Fun discussion about using live minnows, real life stories wanted: In reply to
I did not mean to imply that one method was better than another. If we want to get the attention of those who craft the regulations we should take advantage of any options open to us. But I have noticed the past couple of years that DWR seems to be making more of an effort to solicit input from us lowly fisherfolk. And I have observed that they really do pay attention to the surveys. That response is a big part of the midyear discussions to clarify subject which should be on the schedule for further review and ultimately to present at the next RAC meeting.


About corn. Even though I was likely the one who got things simmering a few years ago, it was most likely the koke heads who finally got corn approved on waters where they want to use it for tipping their hootchies. (sounds naughty) And even though I have used corn for carp and other species in the past, I have not used it since it was legalized. My only "dog in the hunt" was wanting it to be legal for folks who wanted the best way to catch carp. It is a great bait for teaching kids how to catch and battle larger fish...carp.


Corn vs Gulp goodies? I doubt you will find a universal answer. Those who pursue kokes seem to find that some days it is one...other days t'other. Of course there are a lot of factors that can help influence that on any given day. If you are not fishing the right colors...at the right depth...and the right speed...it doesn't matter as much what you are using to tip your trinkets.

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