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Mantua Court.....

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Re: [PhatWeasel] Mantua Court..... In reply to
I thought I would add my 2 cents since I despise Mantua and their outright dishonest practices. I have to agree with Catchinon's comments. Anytime you are charged with anything (even a ticket) your first step is to appear in court and enter a plea. Pleading guilty ends the process and you then pay the consequences in cash or jail. If you plead innocent then you have to return and try your case. You have little hope of winning in Mantua because the police and judge are both residents, and though the judge isn't supposed to lie, the police are legally allowed to do so outside of court. So rule number 1 is never believe anything a police officer is saying. I called the Davis County courthouse out of curiosity and asked if you could ask for a change of venue and have the case tried in Brigham City or elsewhere but it has to be tried in the jurisdiction where the ticket was issued. So you are at the mercy of the Mantua Kangaroo Court. I'm sure there are hundreds of stories about the local constable so I won't add mine, but I will say that my 1 brush with the law there was for parking on the sand next to the ramp (1 tire about 4 inches onto it) and being yelled obscenities at for 20 minutes while my 5 and 7 year old sons sat there listening. Great lesson about respecting authority and supporting the police (not). With all that being said I have to say that some lunatic driving a black Chevy 2500 with one of those plastic bed covers was parked so far out in the road that I couldn't get past him in a Highlander. But that's beside the point. Good luck with KSL. Maybe we can get the legislature to reconsider their bill from last year.
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Re: [Tin-Can] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Tin-Can - 100% with you. I'll pass on Mantua. There are many other (and better) places to fish.



Fish are food, not friends!
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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Hey Curt,

The way it works is if you plead "guilty" then the judge WILL hear what you have to say after you say "guilty", but if you plead "not guilty", by law he cannot hear anymore of it until the trial date. If you plan to plead guilty just to put it behind you then it would serve you well to still plan on a good explanation backed up with whatever you have for evidence and it just might get you a greatly reduced fine. If you plead "not guilty" then you won't be allowed to explain anything right then and there and a trial date will be set. This will be your chance to fight it with evidence, not at your first court date (arraignment). Judges are not allowed to let you explain BEFORE declaring your plea, so remember that.
A judge will almost always allow you to explain the circumstances (although he is not required to) before pronouncing judgment if he is treated respectably.

I got a ticket at Montpelier reservoir years ago for being over limit because I caught three trout at Montpelier reservoir (limit is six) and then stopped at the pond below the lake and started fishing. The pond below has a limit of two and I had no idea. I thought it was just the generic six trout limit (my responsibility, I know). The CO watched me catch my fish on the reservoir and then admitted to me that he waited to see if I would fish on the pond below with the trout that I had in possession. I parked next to his truck and even talked with him for about thirty seconds while I grabbed my pole and flies and he STILL didn't mention to me or warn me that I couldn't fish with the three I had in possession. As soon as I took the first cast he stopped me dead in my tracks and wrote me a ticket.

In court I plead guilty because I was clearly guilty (but ignorant of the regulation difference), but then the judge gave me a chance to explain before he passed judgment. After explaining things he agreed with me that the CO should have told me first that I couldn't fish with the fish I already had in possession and he gave me a token fine for some small amount that I don't remember anymore and sent me on my way. Fair enough!

Bottom line.....be prepared to plead your case to some extent still if you decide to plead guilty. It just might help you get a small fine instead of the big one.

Mike
(This post was edited by gmwahl on Jan 12, 2020, 8:25 PM)
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Re: [gmwahl] Mantua Court..... In reply to
We have reached out to Brigham city as well to get the signs fixed.
Rick Bosworth <RBosworth@bcutah.org> Wrote: “Brigham City is working on signs and will be making changes soon to clear up confusion to those parking along the dike road.” Feel free to reach out to him as well.
Frustrations all around with the tickets I agree and the process. My focus is to take away the opportunity for future anglers to have to go through the same experience we are going through now. The city of Mantua are notorious for this type of behavior. If you knew your city was know for these type of behavior (for years and years) you would think you would want to clean up these discrepancies. But nope mantua keeps these signs up so they can bring in revenue. Bottom line. It doesn’t benefit them to change signs and have clear direction. So why change. We are going at it from a different angle. Take away the opportunity for Mantua to prey on others. Hopefully this will get somewhere.
I’m excited some of you are actually going to court taking it to the next level. Good luck! ....and I’ll be tuning into KSL on the 20th at 10:00 to see their report.
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Re: [gmwahl] Mantua Court..... In reply to
gmwahl wrote:

The way it works is if you plead "not guilty" then the judge WILL hear what you have to say after you say "not guilty", but if you plead "guilty", by law he cannot hear anymore of it until the trial date.

You may want to revisit your language in this sentence.


“We judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behaviour.”
- Stephen M.R. Covey
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Re: [kentofnsl] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Thanks Kent, its revised. I'm prone to dumb mistakes! ;)

Mike
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Re: [gmwahl] Mantua Court..... In reply to
From what PhatWeasel said:
PhatWeasel wrote:
.
The judge didn’t want to hear any information, nothing from what we brought just a not guilty or guilty from your mouth.
Bottom line if you are going to go up there next Tuesday, be aware of the sham. They just want to hear guilty/not guilty and if not guilty you will get a court date that is months out.

I'll take in my proof but at this point I don't see it doing any good. If the judge lets me say anything, I'll just say I'm getting old and did not understand the confusing signs, maybe tell him that this is the first parking ticket I have ever received and wear my vets hat.Tongue After reading what PhatWeasel said, I'm going to agree with him, not sure if pleading not guilty will do me any good and I might end up paying more that the $75 fine, especially if the second court appearance is in Mantua.


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(This post was edited by wiperhunter2 on Jan 12, 2020, 2:17 PM)
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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Best of luck to you Curt. I hope they don't screw you too hard, but I'm not holding my breath.

Mike
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Re: [gmwahl] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Thanks Mike, guess I'll find out tomorrow evening.Frown


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Curt, is KSL going to show up to observe any of the court happenings?
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Re: [BURLEY] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Not that I'm aware of.


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Might I suggest notifying them about your court date. They may use it to give their report the full story; from parking to judgement.
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Re: [BURLEY] Mantua Court..... In reply to
I already did that last week, they wanted me to let them know what the outcome was, so I'll for sure let them know about that.
While I'm thinking about it, I think I'll contact them again and see if they ever got an interview with Mantua city.


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Re: [PhatWeasel] Mantua Court..... In reply to
KSL, contacted me again today and said the city of Mantua declined to do an interview with them. They also said the segment they are going to air on the Mantua ticket issue is going to be delayed one day but will be shown on 21th, on the 10pm news.


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Curt, are you going to Mantua tonight and what time? Have you already plead guilty or not? Is anyone going with you? I'm interested in attending. It's been a long time since I have seen a Kangaroo.
(This post was edited by BURLEY on Jan 14, 2020, 1:28 PM)
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Re: [BURLEY] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Yes, it's tonight between 6 and 8 PM. I'm going alone, it's to plead guilty or not guilty. Another guy was with us that day but he drove up himself and of course he received a ticket too, so he will be there.


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
About what time are you going to be there?
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Re: [BURLEY] Mantua Court..... In reply to
I'm leaving right now. I heard they did some work on that South dike and did something with the confusing signs, so I want to see it before it gets dark.


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Good luck at court.

Hopefully the changes make them look like they're trying to hide what they did and helps you get out of the ticket.
=======================================


Light travels faster than sound.

So some people seem really bright until you hear them talk.
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Re: [BURLEY] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Thanks again for being there tonight Hue. I still might end up having to pay when I go to the trial but I'll feel better about it. Wink


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Re: [a_bow_nut] Mantua Court..... In reply to
They took out all the signs that causes the tickets to be issued and it appears they widened the road. Still have to go back for the trial but at least they fixed the issue that caused this whole problem.


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
So, I'm curious, and this might be better placed under a whole new discussion. But, I was at Echo last, Sunday, and dragged my sled down onto the lake. I wasn't sure of the ice thickness, so left my snowmobile on the trailer. Regardless, the ice was plenty thick, but when we were done, there was no way I was going to pull that heavy sled back uphill. I pulled the sled to the edge of the lake and unloaded the snowmobile. I drove it down to the lake and pulled my sled back up with the snowmobile. What I didn't see, and what was pointed out to me, was a sign.... pointing the opposite direction of where I decided to park. The sign talked about, "no motorized vehicles". Well, the only sign pointing my directions said, "No camping". In order to see the other sign, I would have had to have walked all the way around to the other side of the fence. Now, I wasn't cited..... but, this seems like a, "gotcha". I easily could have been cited. I don't know anything about, Mantua, but it seems like a similar thing.
Sign confusion. State code is pretty direct as to what constitutes criminal trespass and sign recognition. I think, I hope, I would be OK arguing the facts to a judge. The question would be who the judge is. You're always afforded to hearing your case before the judge, or a jury of your peers.
(This post was edited by TheOtherSide on Jan 14, 2020, 10:21 PM)
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Re: [TheOtherSide] Mantua Court..... In reply to
I'm not sure about the sign you are referring to but it does sound similar the our Mantua situation. What I found out last night was that only in serious cases are you allowed a jury of your peers, in minor cases like this, you can always able to have a hearing before the judge, if you so choose.


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Re: [wiperhunter2] Mantua Court..... In reply to
So Curt how did they fix the parking situation? I'm so confused that I don't dare try fishing at Mantua anymore?

My understanding is you can only park at two places, on the south side. They are by the boat ramp over the hill in the parking lot and then up at the east end they supposedly made a couple little parking areas that are around where the creek comes in. Then I understand next year they are looking at building a parking lot near the middle where the road comes in from the west to join the dike road...

From what you said I'm wondering if there is parking back on the dike now? Or is that the trap to get more tickets to fund the new parking lot?

I know the new officer is a go getter up there, I seen him on the side of the road the other night with lights on and I pulled to the inside lane to go around them and he immediately pulled out right behind me and pulled me over, I couldn't figure out what in the heck was going on, so I pulled over and he had pulled me over for a license plate light that was burned out... Luckily he didn't issue a citation, but sure freaked me out, I try to be legal in my driving, since my daughter got enough tickets for the whole family and I'm still paying high insurance from that...

Anyway until the new guy gets more grounded into just going after the big offenders, watch yourself in Mantua... Later Jeff
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Re: [SkunkedAgain] Mantua Court..... In reply to
Jeff, I'm leaving to go fishing in a minute so I can't tell you everything but yes, it does appear you can park on that South dike again. I for one will not be taking a chance again this year but most of the signs have been removed.


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