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WHEN READING THIS ARTICLE ABOUT THE DRAW DOWN AT LAKE TOHOPEKALIGA I THOUGHT HOW TRUE TO FORM THIS TYPE OF FISHING WOULD BE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY SOME CHARTER PEOPLE LIKE THE CHAMPOIN GUIDE SERVICE. DURNING OUR CHARTER WITH THIS SERVICE, CAPTIAN TONY WEATHERMAN EXPLAINED TO MY TEEN BOYS HOW HE AND HIS GRANDPAPPY WOULD GO DOWN TO THE LAKE WITH A HALF A STICK OF DYNOMITE AND GET ENOUGH FISH FOR THE ENTIRE FAMILEY REUION IN FIVE MINUTES. FINE SPORTSMANSHIP BEING TAUGHT TO TEENAGE FISHERMEN, BY A (SO CALLED) PRO. NOW, HE IS GETTING THRILLED TO DEATH THAT A BUNCH OF FISH WILL BE ISOLATED IN TO SMALL POOLS FOR EASY CATCHING. I BET WE WILL SEE SOME NICE NEW PICS ON THE CHAMPION WEB PAGE AFTER THE DRAW DOWN. AND I BET THE SO CALLED IMPARTIAL RATING PEOPLE HEAR AT BIGFISH WILL JAKE UP HIS RATING AFTER HE HAULS IN THESE BIG ONES OUT OF THE GOLDFISH PONDS LEFT BY THE DRAW DOWN. SO LONG FOR NOW, KEEP YOUR POLE OUT OF THE TOLET BOWL AND YOUR LINES TIGHT.

A CHAMPION FAN
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Re: [HIS STYLE] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
DRAW DOWN AT LAKE TOHOPEKALIGA

I was wondering what the purpose of the draw down would be?

The only reasons that we have draw downs here in Michigan are to

( 1 ) fix structures on lakes and rivers and

( 2 ) to kill off fish.

In either case if the fish are not removed from the ponds they suffocate and die in them holes for the lack of oxygen, and starve for the lack of food.

If I was you and I was any were around there I would get my bucket down there and bring me home sum freezer fish for the winter. (They are going to die any way don’t let them go to waist)

As for that fishing with dynamite thing you need to take this with a grain of salt. (This is the oldest fishing story in the book, even my neighbor’s 8-year-old boy is telling that story)

Harvesting fish with dynamite in Florida has been outlawed since way before captain Tony was ever born. This is where parental guidance comes to play. This type of story is no different than the stuff that cartoons on tv are made of not to mention all the violence on 90% cinemas screen productions.

You have brought up sum great points and that is that parental guidance dose not end at the end of the night when the tv goes off but every where in life while your children are developing both physically and mentally. (Don’t miss out on this opportunity - you only get one chance to set ideals straight and if you miss the opportunity you will just be playing catch-up trying to put out fires)



If the Lord's willing, You'll be Blessed.
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Re: [HIS STYLE] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
I NEVER HEARD OF A DRAW DOWN UP HERE. I WOUNDER IF A RECORD IS CAUGHT DURING THIS TIME WOULD IT BE CONSIDERED A GOOD CATCH. SEEMS MORE LIKE A DAY TO STOCK YOUR FREZZER RATHER THAN ENJOY THE SPORT OR FISHING. BRING YOUR NET AND BUCKET. LEAVE THE POLE AT HOME. AND THAT BIT ABOUT THE DYNOMITE IS NO STORY TIME, IT HAPPENS ALOT, MOSTLY DOWN SOUTH. YOU CAN COUNT ON IT.

GETTIEUP!!!
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Re: [HOSS] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Wink

There is currently a draw down going-on at Wolverine Lake in commerce twp.

A draw down was done on this lake 15 years ago when the department of natural resources dozed about three feet of black dirt from the bottom of the lake.

Pontiac lake was drawn down about 10 years ago to kill of all the fish and remove tree stumps.

Irish Hills Lake was drawn down 27 years ago to kill of the carp in that lake.

During these periods you still have to observe the daily catch limits so take a friend.

Drawdowns happen more often than you realize.

As for that dynamite thing I have family from the top of Michigan all the way down to the bottom of Florida and everywhere in between. And nowhere are you allowed to possess explosives with out permits and special accommodations to keep said dynamite away form setting off and secure from theft. Every stick must be accounted for and used where it is scheduled for and if not used with in the permitted time allowed by the permits then the dynamite must be returned and accounted for by several inspectors. The inspectors count each stick before it is set off for accountability and proper load safety reasons.

Many of my family members work in road construction in the Great Smoky Mountains, they tell me that if one stick of dynamite turns up missing you'd thought that some one shot the pope.



Dynamite in the last 50 years has been manufactured so that nothing less than a blasting cap will set it off. The materials on the inside are wet and stay moist for years; there is no lighting a fuse and running off or throwing a stick in to a puddle of water. The blasting caps that are use are so dangerous that in towns near where the dynamite is to be used must have all broadcasting radios and cell phones turn off period. A two way boat radio can set off a blasting cap, an over flying plain can set off a blasting cap.

You could not throw a stick if dynamite far enough by hand with out causing serious physical damage. But lets say for instance you had a burm to hide behind on the side of a lake, the explosion would still blow out your ear drums and shatter any window with in a hundred yards.

the story is entertaining yes..... but factual? no...

I still get a chuckle every time I hear the story though

As for if fish were caught in ponds of drawn down lakes and rivers be qualified as records? If it were me I would say no, nor would I even consider it. But for some that would be the only way they would ever see a record fish. As for being a true victory this person would always know in his heart that it was not...

But yes my freezer likes to be full, you still have to use hook and line method unless otherwise by permit only issued by the department of natural resources.


If the Lord's willing, You'll be Blessed.
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Re: [davetclown] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
  While I enjoyed hearing the dynamite story again (I think I first heard as a youngster back in Texas and retold it in this forum), I wouldn't recommend it as a way of fishing, for any reason. I agree with Dave that dynamite is traceable in many way, the minute traces of color in the mixture make it easy for any police agency to trace it back to the manufacturer, the day it was made, and even down to the inspector at a particular hour. Forensics has come a long way.
However, C-4 is considered a military explosive, although some underwater demolition companies can get a few bricks for their work. Again, closely regulated and tracked. Now the explosive made in a former USSR country is considered the explosive of choice by terrorists (the plane brought down over Scotland is a good example). I won't mention name of explosive or the country but they both are easily found on the net. This explosive can be molded into any shape by hand, beat on with a hammer, dropped from high altitude, exposed to extreme heat and even be close to an explosion and still not be set off. It can only be set off with a detonator.
The FBI has found that it is quite easy to get explosives (dynamite) in this country simply because of the carelessness of companies that have it. A southern Colorado mining company recently reported that a box of fifty sticks of dynamite was missing. There was a statewide hunt on for it (a employee was the prime suspect) and even Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and Kansas state law emforcement agencies joined in. Of course all this wasn't reported in the papers so as to not cause a panic. As it turns out, the employee had mistakenly left one box in his company pickup just before he went on vacation (the truck was parked in the company parking lot all the time). He was arrested when he left Denver airport and questioned by the FBI, the Colorado CBI, local police and a host of other agencies. Of course when they looked in his company truck, they found the missing box. Charges dismissed, he was released and the search called off.
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Re: [johnincolorado] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
I hate when I forget to put my tools away lol Laugh


If the Lord's willing, You'll be Blessed.
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Re: [davetclown] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
  The FBI and CBI sure wasn't laughing at the time. However, as hindsight is always best, it was humorous afterwards. I don't know all the details but the FBI really can trace explosives by their, for lack of a better word, DNA fingerprint.
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Re: [johnincolorado] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Absolutely with out a doubt on the tractability thing, there is no way around it with out a major uproar on a grand scale.

I was just thinking how many times I had left the rake in the yard or the hoe in the garden or my beer on the roof of my car and forgot about it.

I don’t envy them FBI / CIA / BOMB SQUAD / LOCAL OFFICIALS when it comes to a scare of this magnitude. Every step they take may be their last. My hat is off to them for keeping America safe, and that includes those inspectors and construction workers who handle the stuff every day.Cool

To tell the truth my dad was the man who drove the nitro truck from the top of the Pennsylvanian Cole strip mine co back in the mid 1940's in a model ford pickup with the nitro in a class jar surrounded by a ton of hay. Needless to say I am lucky to be here today. I didn’t come about to being till the late 50's


If the Lord's willing, You'll be Blessed.
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Re: [davetclown] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
  Same here. My hat is off to those guys. Disarming an explosive device is bad enough, being there while it's exploding is another story (Vietnam).
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Re: [johnincolorado] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Now I don't wish this on anyone But if I had a choice and was 30-50 ft away from an explosion. I think I would choose Dinamite over a grenade any day. If that hade been the case way back when, I would not have three teath missing, Shrapnal still in my right knee and whare two hearing aids today! Well I probly still would have the hearing aids!
On the facts of Dinamite security. We have a local plant close to me and the security is higher than a High security prison! Of course they don't have much control after they have delivered to the many local coal mines in the area. We hear reports of missing dinamite alot around here. One or two reports every month! It is when we get a report of the detinators missing that we all worry alot untill they are recovered! And yes DNA is the only word that discribes the process to determen the true origin of a stick of dinamite. The chemical makeup of the dyes used determanes the plant and the actual color will determan the date and time!
SSOR


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Re: [HIS STYLE] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
FIRST THE DYNAMITE THING, ANYONE CAN WALK INTO THE SOUTH OF THE BORDER FIRE WORK SHOP IN CAROLINA AND BUY M80'S. FOUR M80'S EQUAL ONE STICK OF DYNAMITE. AND THEY DO COME WITH FUSES THAT BURN UNDER WATER. SO DON'T THINK FOR ONE MINUTE YOU CANNOT RAISE A FEW FISH WITH THESE LITTLE BABIES.
AND MAYBE NOT AS MUCH AS THIRTY YEARS AGO, BUT YOU CAN BET A LOT OF FISH ARE TAKEN THIS WAY TODAY, YOU JUST WILL NEVER KNOW ABOUT IT.

THE DRAW DOWN THING NEEDS TO HAPPEN FOR THE ENVIRONMENTAL REASONS, I WOULD GUESS. BUT TO HAVE CHARTER COMPANIES EXPLOIT IT FOR FINANCIAL GAIN IS A BIT DISTURBING. BUT I GUESS THATS PAR FOR THE COURSE?

BRIAN
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Re: [M80X4] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Brian,
You bring up some important points concerning the M80 issue!
Thank you for your post.
I would like to ask you to register. It is free and gives you alot of added features in using the site and message boards.
Thanks in adavance,
SSOR


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Re: [M80X4] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
I was waiting for some one to bring up the M-80 old wife’s tail

And that my friend is just what it is an old wife’s tail. I am not saying that M-80's are not dangerous. they are vary much so.

I have seen 1/4 sticks of dynamite and have witnessed the comparison of the payloads and the results there after.

My friend it is true that a M-80 will take off your hand. A 1/4 stick of dynamite will splatter you like a water balloon. a stick of dynamite will leave nothing but a red stain for 50 yards in every direction.

As a kid I witnessed the older kids trying to take bass out of a pond with M-80s Fat chance my friend in order to get the pay load close enough to the fish (5 feet) to knock it out you have to deploy the load under the water. As soon as that M-80 hits the water it is dead unless you are foolish enough to hold in your hand till just a second before it goes off then if you don’t loose your hand you have failed to get it under the water where the pay load needs to be deployed.

Don’t kid your self and don’t play games you will only get yourself and some one else dead.


If the Lord's willing, You'll be Blessed.
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Re: [HIS STYLE] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
I KNOW FOR SURE THE M80 TALE ANT NO WIFE'S TALE. APARENTLY YOU ANT BEEN AROUND FIREWORKS AS A YOUNGEN. WHEN WE WERE BOYS WE COULD BRING ALOT MORE THAN FISH TO THE TOP WITH THE M80'S. I KNOW IT ANT RIGHT AND CAPTIAN TONY OUGHT TO BE MORE CAREFUL WITH THAT LOOSE LIP ADVISE. EVEN IF ITS JUST IN KIDDEN. TEENAGERS, THEY TAKE TALK LIKE THAT FROM AN ADULT AND JUST RUN WITH IT.

NOW ABOUT THAT DRAW DOWN. I'LL BE SURE TO BE THERE!! I HAVE NO PROBLEM CATCHIN LIKE THAT. AND YOU CAN BET IF I GET A RECORD I'LL BE CLAIMIN IT.

MYBASS
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Re: [HIS STYLE] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
I AGREE WITH AMENDMENT1.

SOME PEOPLE INVOLVED WITH CHARTING PEOPLE DOWN THOUGH THE FLORIDA AREA HAS TURNED THIS WHOLE THING INTO A JOKE.

IT'S JUST LIKE THE GREAT IDAHO ELK HUNTS. THE GUIDES BRING YOU TO AN AREA WERE THE ELK CANNOT ESCAPE. THEREFORE ALLOWING THE CLIENT TO GO IN FOR A SURE KILL. IS THIS HUNTING?. IF THE DRAW DOWN MAKES IT EASY PICK-INS, THEN THE CHARTERS SHOULD STAY AWAY AND TAKE THE CLIENTS TO A PLACE OF CHALLENGE. LET THE LOCALS STOCK THEIR FREEZERS.
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Re: [MYBASS] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
When I was working for the Department of Natural Resources and we made a documentary film about explosives. We showed the damage that M-80's dose, among a good number of other explosives and compared it to a number of other materials and damages.

This documentary was a danger of explosive film that is still in use in the state of Michigan safety education program for its employees. While a M-80 will nock a mailbox off its post, the M-80 only has the equivalent blasting powder of a pack of firecrackers in one bang.

this is fact not fiction, after cutting open a M-80 and weighed the powder.

we took 20 fire crackers (one pack) and weighed that blasting powder. The difference in the black powder used to fill the two was less than a dozen grains.

a twelve gage shot gun shell can contain more blasting powder than an M-80

If you (and I mean you personally) Took fish with a M-80 the fish had to be on top of the water and you throw it just in the nick of time to deliver the pay load. it sounds to me that there is some discrepancy in your story.

But I suppose if you are afraid your children are uncontrollable then you should put blinders on them, give them ear plugs, throw the tv out the window, smash the radio, run the paper boy off, lock your mail box shut, and finally lock your child in a closet, because your child is hearing and seeing far worse every day every else than they will from one incident with a tall tail telling fisherman

Besides what you just confessed to doing is punishable in a court of law, and you have just openly confessed to committing a felony

In addition what you are saying is being read by hondreds of children every month. So on a scale of who is doing worst damage by telling an old wife's tail and claiming it to be true, well I will leave that up to you to ponder.

but the more I hear some one trying to convince me of the story being true the louder my chuckles get.

You should make your handle Wile-E-Cyotie TongueTongueTongue BEEP BEEP!!!


If the Lord's willing, You'll be Blessed.
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Re: [davetclown] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Hello Guys,

Dave I ended up having to reply to your message because I just deleted "Ammendment1's" post and can't reply to it. But in case he comes back I wanted to say a couple things. So sorry this is in reply to you its directed at "Ammendment1"

Hello Ammendment1,

First off I think your post should have been entitled "NO STYLE" not "HIS STYLE" and it should have been directed at you.

I have made it very clear we are not a Consumer Slander club, the fact that you repeatedly make variations of the same posts (the only contributions you've ever made to these boards) each one getting further from the intail incident and the problem you had with the guide service, and are so gutless you refuse to identify yourself on these boards (or respond to any questions about your claims) by registering leaves me no choice but to spell out with no ambiguity exactly where we stand with third party slander, hearsay, and complaining with no hope in resolving a problem but just to whine about your misfortune (which after all the chances you've had to resolve this and refuse to is my opinion of what you are doing).

Having never been a contributor to these boards but to continue to slander someone you had a bad experience with disgusts me and it will not be tolerated on these boards!

Your choice of handle "Ammendment1"???? If that is suppose to be a poke at the fact that I am deleting your posts, well it can get worse. Your I.P. address can easily be banned from these boards, and yes you can find another account to connect from but yes, if this behavior persists then problems with the guide service you are so content on slamming can become the least of your problems. I am sick of deleting your posts! Through your previous emails that you spammed everyone about your experience and the fact that I know who you are, I can and will put an end to this in 1 phone call. Funny thing about the company your slamming who has bent over backwards offering you a refund and many other resolutions. Is that it is companies like that, that provide the support for this site that affords you a place to excersise (or should I say abuse) YOUR FIRST AMMENDMENT.



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Mike H
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Re: [theangler] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Passing on good and bad experiences with services is one thing, slandering them on a public forum is another. I, for one, am glad to see someone is policing the posts.
While I may not agree, and I often don't, with other's opinions, I defended their right to have them and voice them. I can trade good-natured barbs with the best of them, except a politician, and enjoy a good exchange as long as it doesn't get out of hand and no one gets their feelings hurt.
Keep up the good work, Angeler.
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Re: [davetclown] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
  Lead by example and don't do anything you wouldn't want your kids, or someone else's, copying. A nice way of saying it but it doesn't reflect the real world. Kids copy from peer pressure. A loud "double dare you" is a strong incentive.
Now my old man, bless his soul, wouldn't allow anything bigger than a Lady Finger and sparkers for fireworks and even they were supervised. So it was an experience to lob a hand grenade over the side of the ship during small arms practice at sea. I loved that submachnine gun but one officer had to dress up as a gangster, in overcoat, hat pulled low over his eyes, big cigar clamped between his teeth and blast an entire clip at an oil drum. That man was good, didn't let it ride up on him, and would riddle one barrel before it sunk. Of course the water was so deep that I think it was still sinking to the bottom the next day.
And to this day, there are still isolated incidences of an old WW2 contact mine floating to the surface. The Gunners Mates on the ship would have a field day trying to sink one, first by small arms fire, then by grenade. If that didn't work, then the 4"-50 guns was used. When it did explode, it made one hell of a blast, making those Lady Fingers pale in comparison. Okay, so I got off subject.
Point is, kids do copy adults (If its good for you, then its good for me). So careful what is said, they can read.
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Re: [theangler] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
MR. ANGLER SO SORRY TO SEE YOU IN A TIFF OVER THAT GREAT DISCUSSION THAT WAS GOING ON ABOUT THE DRAW DOWN. HOLDING A POSITION WITH THE BIGFISH COMPANY I AM SURPRISED YOU WOULD WANT TO SQUASH SUCH A HOT SUBJECT. IT WAS GETTING A LOT OF HITS AS YOU COULD SEE. AND FOR THAT MATTER IT STILL IS. BUT IF DELETING IS YOUR THING THEN GO RIGHT AHEAD.

AS FAR AS YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT SLANDER AND THREATS YOU PUT IN YOUR LAST POST, YOU SHOULD LOOK UP THE DEFINITIONS OF THESE WORDS IT'S OBVIOUS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN. ANYTHING I SAID ABOUT ANYONE OR ANY COMPANY WAS TRUTH, I HAVE TWO WITNESSES THAT CAN AND WILL BACK IT UP. AND AS FAR AS ME ABUSING THE FIRST AMENDMENT, AGAIN IT'S APPARENT YOU HAVE NOT READ IT, OR ELSE YOU WOULDN'T MAKE FOOLISH COMMENTS LIKE THAT. AND MY BUSINESS WITH ANYONE ELSE IS EXACTLY THAT , "MY BUSINESS".

AND YOUR THREAT ABOUT MAKING A PHONE CALL TO HAVE ME BANNED
FROM WRITING ON YOUR BOARDS JUST FELL ON DEAF EARS, SO GO AHEAD AND START DIALING.I PAY MY BILL AND FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE ROAD AND I WILL POST AND SPEAK MY MIND AND THATS THAT.

AND IN CLOSING I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY "KEEP YOUR POLE OUT OF THE TOILET BOWL AND YOU LINES TIGHT.

(This post was edited by theangler on Nov 8, 2002, 3:26 PM)
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Re: [AMENDMENT1] THE GREAT CHAMPION DURNING "DRAW DOWN" In reply to
Hello AMENDMENT1,

Glad you felt the need to finally respond to a post. You mention many things and since you did me the courtesy of responding to my position on this matter I will do the same.

First of all the many people responding had the decency to respond mostly to the draw down issue but would I be to far off the mark if I said "your intention was to slam the guides service you did while cloaking it in the draw down issue". If that's not the case why mention the service (which just happens to be the service you had a problem with)?

On the matter of squashing a hot post, there are many boards you can go that need the activity that badly. Our idea of a hot post doesn't come at the expense of a reputable organization that has tried to make good on what was a bad experience you had with his outfit.

I find it interesting that you choose to field the slow ground ball like the first amendment but refuse to respond to the line drive questions like:

What did this service offer you to make this right?

What if any dissatisfaction did you express at the time of the trip?

What steps did you take to let the service make your dissatisfaction right prior to emailing all of the biggest sites you could find to tell them of your dissatisfaction?

What did this service do when I forwarded him your email?

These questions are the real issue here, you are content on bad mouthing the service in what you thought was anonymity and misrepresenting the real facts, but your only real response is related to your 1st amendment?

On the issue of slander and threats, first of all I never said anything about threats and secondly the slander part covers misrepresentation of facts that are injurious to a person or companies reputation. If you need fine line further explanation call your lawyer, it frankly isn't as cut and dry as the dictionary definition. This statement was not isolated to your "dynamite" post which may or may not have been true but I read your emails (that you sent us) and previous posts and opinion based conclusions based on misrepresented facts that hurt someone's reputation are absolutely "slander".

On the issue of first amendment, I find your statements comical. In my experience most of the people who use the statement "Its my first amendment" is most likely using it because they don't want to take any personal responsibility for what they said, they are exercising there right to say idiotic things, or they are just parroting what they have heard other idiots say. In your case you were giving many chances to answer relative questions that would paint an honest picture of how this event transpired but chose to ignore that chance to do the right thing and think your anonymous one sided story should remain in an open forum to seek revenge for your own ineptness to speak your mind when events on this trip started to go a direction you weren't comfortable with. You are definitely correct you have the right to distort the facts and complain about anything you want although it is my personal choice to accept responsibility for what I say because I cherish the 1st amendment. I don't have to run around saying its my first amendment because I take responsibility for what I say. Lastly, on the first amendment again you are absolutely correct you can say what ever you want but the REALLY BIG POINT THAT YOU DON'T GET IS THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T OBLIGATE ME TO PUBLICIZE YOUR 1ST AMENDMENT RIGHTS!!

To your last two statements I would hope that this never becomes an issue and in closing I would just like to say.

You are welcome in these boards, just respect the fact that the moderators and this site work hard to not attract the type of posts that are just designed to seek revenge on companies and people.

Put yourself in my position, I see a person who has never posted in these boards before and his first 5 posts are attacks on someone, he refuses to reply until now to any questions. There are many boards that love those types of threads, it keeps the board busy, well I wanted to make it clear to you that this isn't one of them. If that is the kind of drama you want in your life then there is many places that will accommodate you, you don't need to promote it in places it really doesn't fit. If we just got off on the wrong foot then Welcome aboard!



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Mike H
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