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little help with my double haul

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little help with my double haul
hi folks.. I'm getting a little frustrated with trying to coordinate my hands/arms with what the line is doing on my double haul. specifically my left/line hand (I'm right handed).

I believe my back haul is OK.. well.. it seems to be working anyways.
However, my forward haul isn't working so well and its driving me baty! I've tried reading some things here and there between my backyard practice sessions but something either hasn't clicked mentally or physicaly and or both.


any thoughts, tips or tricks you could share?





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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
This is sort of embarassing because I just realised it's a little tough to advise someone on technique/form with out seeing what they might be doing wrong.. Plus and I didn't really explain this too well either with my limited ff vocabulary.


I'm going to try this again here..Blush

durring my forward casting stroke when should I be starting my haul ..say between the 2 & 10 o'clock positions?


I understand I need to practice, practice, practice but I think I'm looking for some type of conformation as to rod position to work off of and attain...



am I making ANY sense ?





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(This post was edited by birddogwi on Jul 6, 2007, 11:20 AM)

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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
Real hard to explain, but you should be pulling the line as soon as you start your forward cast, and shooting it at the 10:00 as you put it.





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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
Thanks FG!

I'm guessing it depends on a few things concerning weights and such but *generally speaking * pulling a foot or two of line on the forward haul should be adaquate enough considering my casting stroke is in order.. ??


Thanks again, FG- I appreciate it!





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(This post was edited by birddogwi on Jul 6, 2007, 12:14 PM)

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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
Interesting. I have problems with the timing of the haul on the back stroke but do well on the forward stroke.

Lefty Kreh talks about practicing each haul seperately. He speaks of doing this on the lawn. For the forward haul you would cast the line behind you and let it fall to the ground. The you cast forward and do the haul sometime during the speed up portion. After casting let the line fall to the ground. Turn 1080 degrees and practise the forward cast with the haul again. Repeat many times.

The use the same procedure for the back haul but instead start the the line laid out in front of you.

Once you feel comfortable with both huals the you practise with incorporating both in the same cast.

FG says to start the haul as soon as you start your cast. As I remember lefty talks about using it only during the speed up or power part of the stroke. I bet either one will work.

Here is where I got the information from but I have not reviewed it in several years so my memory could have it all screwed up by now:

http://flyfisherman.com/skills/lkdoublehaul/

dB
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] little help with my double haul In reply to
Like I said, a hard one to describe, I just do it with out thinking about it. I do know when you do it correctly you can really feel the line shoot.
Go with the Lefty for sure. Playing around in the living room, that definitly makes more sense. I am in the forward cast while I pull.





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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
CoolHi there birddogwi - how about watching this video demonstrating the single and double haul. They say a video is worth thousands of words.




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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
yeah, when you do it right it feels good and the line shoots out there. ..........Now if I can just keep it from getting wrapped around the brush and my boots and stop those pesky coils.


Be consistant.... I know that is important because I am not consistant and it causes grief.

dB
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] little help with my double haul In reply to
Well - breaking it down into practicing just one haul at a time sounds pretty solid. Great link too, scruffy - thanks a bunch!





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Re: [Dryrod] little help with my double haul In reply to
Cool
Thanks for that video link Dryrod! .. I've been watching that Mark Sosin video thats on here off and on trying to pick up what he's doing.. but this one you posted is a little more clear/specific. Thanks bud!





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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
Thanks for the clarification FG! .. I know - its tough to describe something thats second nature Crazy.. a person just doesn't think about it - it just sort-of "happens" over the years.





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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
I agree with all the good information that has been provided above.

To get a feel for the timing when double hauling, I would suggest that you get your hands on a rod that has a soft action. The softer action will give you a feel of when the rod is "loading". After all, the double haul is only to increase the loading action of the rod.

Most of today's rods are produced with a rather stiff action, and in order to get the loading feel, you have to be false casting most of your line.

I would concentrate more on knowing when your back cast is complete, with the line laid out behind you than learning the double haul.
Most everyone who has problems with their cast (even experienced casters), come into play when they rush their forward cast.

Speaking for myself, if I'm in a hurry to get the fly onto the water, and don't take the time for my backcast to complete I have problems.
It's often easy to forget that the motions involved in fly casting are more artistic than power related.


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Re: [Saberfish] little help with my double haul In reply to
Right On Saberfish. But then I think full to med flex rods are the way to learn. Really teaches you to do things correctly cause if you screw up with a slow action rod...you are gonna know it!
These new stiff or fast action rods cover a lot of bad habits.
Learn on a slow and you will be able to cast anything.





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Re: [Saberfish] little help with my double haul In reply to
good words saberfish.

My primary rod is a tip flex rod which I can not sense the back cast roll most of the time. Must do it more of a sense of timing.

But then that is the best way to do it anyway. Unfortunately that takes a lot of practice.

when all else fails my immediate back up is: "Apply more power" but it generally does not help.

dB
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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
If I told you guys that I took one of my light/slow action 9' Steelhead rods and strapped a fly reel on it... what would you say?? ShockedAngelic

btw - I didn't want to wait around another couple weeks for the staff from Beulah to get back from Mexico on the 17th so I picked up that Pflueger Medalist Pro combo 8'6" 5wt w/Medalist Pro 1576 reel that I asked about a while back to mess with in the mean time. Went down to $70 - backed & spooled with line and a 7' +/- tapered leader. I'll "surgicaly enhance" the grip down the road if I feel its worth the hassle. I picked up the Orvis LA II & III last week also... just thought I would give an update on a few items I decided to purchase for some reason I guess.

anywho..





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(This post was edited by birddogwi on Jul 7, 2007, 7:47 PM)

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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
Men, I would love to find one of those OLD American Made Pflueger reels (the ones that were around $20.) for my Tea Stick. Those things are classics.





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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
you have a picture or model # of one FG?





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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
Here is a couple I would Love to have.








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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
cool! .. I'll keep my eyes peeled around here, FG





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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
Kewl!Cool





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Re: [Saberfish] little help with my double haul In reply to
     

Quote:
To get a feel for the timing when double hauling, I would suggest that you get your hands on a rod that has a soft action. The softer action will give you a feel of when the rod is "loading". After all, the double haul is only to increase the loading action of the rod.

Most of today's rods are produced with a rather stiff action, and in order to get the loading feel, you have to be false casting most of your line.

I would concentrate more on knowing when your back cast is complete, with the line laid out behind you than learning the double haul.Most everyone who has problems with their cast (even experienced casters), come into play when they rush their forward cast.




Hey Saber.. thanks for the thoughts here.

I've been doing pretty well lately keeping my loops tight and slowed my forward cast .. I've honestly been putting in HOURS of practice and am practicing with between 65-75' of line and a 8' tappered leader in the back yard between mature trees that allow @ 25-30' of clearance between the branches.. I'm standing about dead center between 'em casting to my dogs kiddy pool thats on the patio. I've slowed down.. I started watching my line behind me by rotating my torso to keep my upper body and arms insinc - I found that twisting my head around to look at my line dropped my right shoulder (rod arm) thus dropping my elbow and opening my cast up.. wasn't good! Anyways, when I see things aren't exactly right or acceptable for whatever reason I'm now able to get a decent read on the line by slightly twisting my neck. My peripheral vision can pick up a read now and its working well.

Enter the double haul.. after a few more hours practice this weekend I'm starting to get the hang of it.. I periodically regress a bit in my cast at times from concentrating on the haul but I finally figured out its a lot like playing on a drum set - more ELBOW and WRIST snap than shoulder movement with your left arm Cool.. so far things are progressing nicely. I haven't moved much further back yet but the shooting sensation of the line on the put is there.. I've loosened hold of the line a few times and it's looking very promising so far... accuracy is within the dog's 5' diameter kiddy pool about 1 out of 3 attempts from that same distance. I'm sure this is nothing impressive to experienced folks but I'm happy its coming along.

I seriously appreciate all the help you folks have given so far!!!





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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
Sounds like you are making enough progress to keep you interested and happy. Don't let the usual surge of testosterone get the best of you. I remember when I worked very hard at casting distance. At the time, I was fishing a local water (Strawberry res.), and was wading the shoreline fishing for trout. It was about the time that the first graphite rods were coming out. I obtained a 10 foot 10 weight from Fenwick that I had to have. Would have traded kids for it.

I could cast a mile, and had some great trips with it. I would rush to the lake after work, change from a suit to heavy rubber waders, and fish until dark. It would get me back home about midnight and I was making that trip a couple times a week. (I must have been mad)

I would make long cast, and then using different sink rate lines, would retrieve my flies (mostly variations and colors of a double renegade). The most fun that I had was hooking a 2-3 pound rainbow at the end of my cast. They would jump and fight like crazy. One of my most productive retrieves was one where I would cast, then put the rod under my arm, and make a fast hand over hand retrieve. The fish would hit the fly like a freight train.

At that time, my idea of fishing related to long casts. I didn't realize that when you walk up to a stream, you do it with stealth, first fishing the water close to you, slowly working the water farther out. (it's that testosterone thing)

I guess I still haven't lost the urge, cause now, even though I fish from a toon, I use two 10 foot custom Loomis rods, when really long casts are not necessary.

I hope that you get to a point where you are happy with your casting, and it becomes so second nature, that you concentrate on the fish more than the casting.



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Re: [flygoddess] little help with my double haul In reply to
Just think about this Sis. You have a bro in SoCal that will keep the eyes open too.

My Dad gave me 3 of the 60s and 70s series Medalists. I have purchased a few more of the 50s and 60s series from tackle shops in the used section.

I am always on the lookout for them because the shops only charge 15 to 25 bucks for them and have no idea what they are worth to a collector like me.

If I can find one soon, I will send you a belated Bday present.Wink

Just tell Mojo that it is from your long lost Brother in SoCal.Cool


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Re: [birddogwi] little help with my double haul In reply to
CoolHi there birddogwi - this might be a repeat but here is a pic x pic demo by BY LEFTY KREH:
Next to mastering the proper casting stroke, the double haul is the most important tool a fly caster can learn. It permits you to throw a longer line, cast against the wind, and present heavier flies and lines with less effort. Once you master the double haul, you can use it to some degree on almost every cast.
I have observed thousands of fly fishermen in a lifetime of fly fishing, and I now believe that almost every caster uses the double haul incorrectly or at least inefficiently--and that includes many great casters with whom I have been lucky enough to fish.
Before discussing my concept of the proper double haul, I must explain a few important fundamentals of fly casting.
Fundamental I. All casting strokes are divided into two parts: a relatively long motion in which the rod is gradually accelerated and an ending motion with a much shorter and faster speed-up-and-stop of the tip. The speed-up-and-stop is often referred to as a power stroke. Of course, it isn't a power stroke at all; it is a speed stroke. So I call it a speed stroke.
Fundamental II. The shorter the distance the rod tip travels during the speed-up-and-stop, the tighter the loop will be.
Fundamental III. The faster the rod tip accelerates over that final short distance of the speed-up-and-stop and the quicker it stops, the faster the line will travel.
Fundamental IV. Once the line straightens, it begins to fall. The line obtains distance by unrolling. When it has completely unrolled, it will go no farther.
Fundamental V. Line control is the most important element of good casting. You must prevent slack from entering the system during the cast.
You can observe these fundamentals by conducting your own interesting experiment with just four casts.
1. Make several false casts, then sweep the rod forward near the end of the casting stroke in a relatively long speed-up-and-stop and you will see the line develop a large loop.
2. Make another cast, but this time make a much shorter stroke at the end of the casting stroke. Watch as the line forms a tighter loop.
3. Make another cast with a short stroke (to form a small loop) but during the speed-up-and-stop, move the rod tip rather slowly and don't stop quickly. You will see a small loop form, but it will not go far.
4. Finally, make another cast, but this time, move very rapidly over that short distance at the end of the cast and make the rod tip stop as abruptly as possible. Watch as the line forms into a small, tight loop. The swiftness of the stroke and abruptness of the stop causes the line to travel much farther.
It is vital to understand that the more swiftly the rod tip moves through that very short final distance and the quicker the stop, the tighter the loop and the farther the cast will unroll before it begins to fall. A tight loop made with a quick stop directs more energy toward the target. If you understand these three factors, you can see why a single or double haul permits you to make longer casts.
The rod tip should start low and stay low on longer casts. Note that both hands are close together at the start.
As the rod rises and loads, your line-hand follows your rod-hand and they are kept the same distance apart.
The haul is short (inches) and hardly noticeable. Compare the distance between steps 2 and 3.
The forward cast begins and your rod-hand and line-hand stay at equal distance apart until the haul is made during the speed-up-and-stop.
The short haul is made with both hands stopping at the same time.
As soon as both hands stop, the line can be released or controlled as it shoots to the target.





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Re: [Dryrod] little help with my double haul In reply to
Huh?????

I especially like the position of figure 4.

Where is that (accident) cast going to end up?

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