Fishing

Went to the weber between echo and rockport yesterday, seemed like a good idea based on what I was hearing. I started flyfishing last fall this was my 5th trip out, 2 solid hits, couldn't hook one, saw about 10 swimming around. I tried different scuds, sow bugs, behind stoneflies, and bwo's. I can't figure out why I can't get that first one on my hook, I love being out there just wondering if it's common to fish your butt off and not be able to land one for your first 20 hours on the water. I guess i'm going to have to follow one of you pros and watch from the trees to see what i'm doing wrong. Any ideas would be appreciated.

If you are seeing the fish-the fish are seeing you! That being said, you should still be able to catch a few even if you aren't in stealth mode.


You mention some of the flies- and there isn't anything wrong with them, but I haven't read one update on the Webe that hasn't mentioned RED COPPER JOHN...may be worth a try.

The next thing is how are you rigging your flies on the tippet? Are you getting them to the bottom...in the feeding lane, without slack ibetween your fly and indicator?


Just a few things that I think may have something to do with the lack of love from them fishes.

I am having the same problem, I have spent about 40 hours on the middle weber, because its in my back yard, and have not got one bite. I have been using grasshoppers and bumble bees. Oh well maybe tomorrow.

Tunsworth- please quit throwing those flies(until july). Dry fly fishing may be the glamour side of fly fishing but it is VERY seasonal. Meaning that summer patterns DO NOT work in Spring.

If you are hell bent on throwing dry flies, find a hatch chart, and throw the adult versions. Right now BWO and midge patterns may work.

I am in the same boat as you, I went today with a fellow bft'er and have had some help from others, I think the biggest thing I was doing wrong is not getting the flies down far enough, you should have some moss on your bottom fly if you are low enough, if not place your indicator higher, and always clean the moss if you see it, this helped me alot today and was able to catch my first to fish on the fly rod today on the weber and had multiple misses, just keep trying it will get their!

Steve is right- you have got to be on the bottom- I will however say that I Rarely have moss on my bottom fly, and that is due to the way I set my flies and weight.

From the 3x leader I tie a section of 3x-1x tippet. About 4" from the bottom I tie my bottom fly on, NOT cutting the tag...but tying a knot in that line, near the bottom-as a weight stop- I attach the appropriate amount of weight for the river that day above thejust above the knot.

Anywhere from 8 to 14 inches above my bottom fly, I will attach my top fly-

The point being my bottom fly is kept out of the moss more often than its IN the moss-and really if a fish has its belly ON the bottom, its eyes are an inch or two above that.

I will add that I set my indicator about a foot deeper than the deepest part of a hole that I'm fishing-

Say the deepest part of a hole gets to be about 5 foot deep- even though most of my casting will end up in water less than 2 feet deep, I set my indicator at about 6'-

And I'm not saying I have the best set up, its just a set up that works for me, and I think if you try it you may like it...you may not? Just throwing out some ideas.

With this setup are you typically adding weight above the top fly?

I NEVER add weight above the bottom fly...

I add enough weight below the bottom fly to take the whole set up to the bottom. And usually you'd be surprised how little the weight it is.

If I'm not getting hits on the top fly, I may adjust the depth of it, but if I'm still getting fish on the bottom fly, I won't touch it...its a time thing, I don't want to take the time to stop catching fish on the bottom fly to change the depth of the top fly.

Not saying you can't catch fish this way... but this is a horrible presentation of flies if you're rigging it how I think you are.. Single line, knot at the bottom, split shot above that, and both flies above that on the same line. (Provo River Bounce) Is what some call it. This makes flies look VERY unnatural. Anytime you have more mass on the bottom of your flies, it's going to make them "unnatural." This is why we use a bigger attractor fly on top, and a smaller dropper on the bottom. Putting split shot below that totally defeats the purpose. I honestly don't see moss on your flies a bad thing! Help me know I'm in the zone! If I always had a split shot on the bottom bouncing, how are you able to detect what's a fish and what's not. Of course, everything is a fish right!? That'd be a lot of setting!

Onto the indicator, if you're fishing a hole and you're only setting your indicator a foot longer then your hole you're fishing, you're saying that your line basically needs to be between 75-90 degrees to get to the bottom. Add the current in there with that. I bet you'd have much better luck fishing a longer leader, and getting the split shot above your flies so they look natural and aren't getting thrown around (drag free).

Obviously there's more then one way to skin a cat and there's millions of ways to catch fish. Not saying yours is wrong, just saying I think you'd have better success and to try it out.

The main reason I have stuck to this rig is because of the constant tension I get from the weights to the indicator- every rock I bounce across tics the indictor! That's called knowing what my line from the indicator down is doing.

I, Personally feel that more fish are missed due to never detecting the stike- if I have to set the hook- and I'm not talking BASS MASTER's hook sets- 80 times and only catch 20 fish....at least I didn't miss one that I didn't detect because of slack line behind my weight.

That's my personal feelings, and I didn't give everything away on how my rig is set up- I have a secret or two about it that I didn't mention. ;)

Edit- As for my indicator depth, I've found that when the water deepens it also slows when on the edge of the current-"the feed zone"- so if the most instant angle of hit detection being 45 degrees, straight below the indicator, the less angle you have from there, the more strikes you will detect?



There is NO WRONG way to fish! Just get out and do it! Have fun and FISH GOD's willing, catch a few.

I get what you're saying, but if you're properly rigging your setup, you won't have any slack line from your indicator to the very end of your flies and you WILL see every strike. The key is to get a STRAIGHT leader from your indicator, to your weights. No matter if you're in 2ft or 10ft. If you're leader has slack in it, then yes, you will be missing a bunch of strikes or you'll be way late on all of them. I still think you're missing a bunch of strikes as well from your flies looking unnatural. Be very interesting to test out side by side! I will also say that the commercial store bought tapered mono leaders are HORRIBLE and I would probably never buy another one again. I have many reasons why. I also have many reasons why I LOVE furled leaders. :) I've had people mention that the butt end doesn't "sink" fast enough because they can see it in the water. The reason you can see it is because it also is acting like an indicator. Not only do I watch my indicator, I'm watching my leader!

Thanks for all the ideas, I think I need to tuck myself out of the sight of the fish a little, also I think my dropper wasn't close enough to the bottom. I'm learning and will get it, still even without a fish on I love it and will not be giving up anytime soon. If anyone needs or wants some company one of these weekends I'd like to watch and learn from someone with a little more experience. Feel free to email me.

With any set-up you choose, the important thing is depth! There is no difference between the right flies at the wrong depth, and the wrong flies at the right depth.

Get the right flies in their face, and they have no choice but eat!

Good luck--and keep us posted on your next trip!

You talking thenProvo River Bounce?
http://youtu.be/dZ0hvZX2Uf0




Some things are better left alone, Even though, some feel they know better.
http://www.utahflydrifters.com/guides/profiles.htm

Sounds like a Provo Bouncer rig.

Weights below the fly, but 3x to 1x tippet from the leader ?


@tageater If it is the Provo bouncer rig you might want to scale back your tipped to 4x, 5x, or 6x the smaller diameter tippet will give your flies more natural movement in the water.

Uh, guys...and girls...I'm not the one asking for help...I do just fine with my set-up(see pictures I've posted)

Try setting the hook on a pissed off 5 lb'er with 6x, or even 5x, and still being able to keep him from running under the bank or into the brush without breaking you off.

I NEVER struggle to get numbers or size, so maybe I'm not doing it wrong...

Sorry my bad will need to remember not to offer any unwanted advise I forget what forum Im on my bad . keep on trucking with the 1x tippet.

I didn't want that to sound rude...I know all about why I might want to use smaller tippet, and that's not to say I always use the heavy stuff. If I'm fishing the Provo, where the biggest fish I might catch is gonna be about 20", I might use something thinner, but when I'm on a river where I might hook a 26"'er- I'm not gonna show up to a gun fight with a knife.

The great thing about the forums IS the fact that we can see how everyone else is doing things- its when you hear you're doing it wrong that it rub ya a bit wrong.

I honestly don't care how anyone one else does it, or what they think of how I do it. It doesn't phase me in the least, but if someone asks how I catch fish, I'll tell them- please give all the advice you feel I need, I'm not the only one reading, and someone else may take that information and use it.

Hope that doesn't come out sounding too ungrateful...

no worries if 1x tippet works for you then keep rocking it.

I guess I am done with this post. Good luck all.




Some things are better left alone, Even though, some feel they know better.
http://www.utahflydrifters.com/guides/profiles.htm

Aww cmon FG were just shooting the breeze talking about 10 lb tippets and such

Yeah, FG- its all good. I'd use 15 lb tippet if I could get it through the eye on a size 18.:)

Oh I get that, I use 6X on my #32's Rarely go over 6lb for most everything, and 10 lb for Grass Carp.




Some things are better left alone, Even though, some feel they know better.
http://www.utahflydrifters.com/guides/profiles.htm

I caught 33 fish two days ago on Sheridan creek bottom bouncing. If I had done it right I might have caught 100.