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Buying a Pontoon

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Re: [mojorizing] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
I have not floated "white water" I will admit that a thousand times. I know for a fact I would not do it with that style of boat ever.
The top line of those kind of pontoons is flat. Dead flat. The only "rocker" they have is the hull is missing in the front and back. Can that actually be called a rocker? Most of the rockered boats have full hulls but the ends are turned up not missing.

While I have not floated "white water" so I probably don't have a say on such matters I have floated splashers and fast water and a lot of river with a Pontoon and even my float tube. The Venture 8 ft and the creek co both are made the same. Neither one have ANY advantage over the boats I have been using. NONE.
I am skeptical about the whole rocker idea and it's usefulness in the first place. This kind of rocker especially. Ron

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Re: [idahoron] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Ron I agree with you, you do not need the dramatic rockers, but rockers are needed. Even on some stillwater.
Here is a little comparisons for you. Here is Watermaster (same design as Water Strider) Both are flat bottom, no rocker what so ever. When a wave hits them it is like hitting a wall. Up and over. Watch the video:

http://www.bigskyinflatables.com/


Now Dave comes out with a small river raft, but has added rockers. The foot print is that of a pontoon, because the ends are out of the water. It will ride up over rocks rather than slam into them. Watch the video

http://www.youtube.com/...C4r-4&feature=relmfu


I know this is a raft and not a pontoon, but you can get an idea that the oversized rockers are designed for big waves and ruff waters. You look at these Outcast, they have the larger rockers, just more a smoother up sweep.

http://www.basspro.com/...=shopping_googlebase


In closing, rockers are good and a must, just some have more than others. I am glad I had rockers today or I would be soaked.







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Re: [mojorizing] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
I think a correction is needed here. The way it was explained to me was this. 1. Manuverabilty - faster reacting. 2. Falling down into holes the rocker provides lift rather than plunging in.

Picture the tube with a concentric point on the nose Now elevate the rear end of pontoon up on a 45 degree angle . As the pontoon slides nose first into the hole the pontoons nose buries into the wave. The rocker whatever angle it may be helps prevent that from happening.

As per AIRE :
Radically kicked tubes were designed to resurface quickly and climb easily over big waves and nasty hydraulics. The combination of extreme bow and stern rise with great hull speed has created a boat that will perform the most critical maneuvers.

Nothing to do with rocks. Although if I had to hit a rock head on (not with my head ) I guess I would like a rocker front to help cushion the blow.

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Rock was just an example, a visual. We are saying the same thing. They are necessary and some more than others. But if you want to correct it into your words, go for it.





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(This post was edited by flygoddess on Apr 29, 2012, 6:49 PM)

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Re: [flygoddess] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Simply stating it ( the design ) had nothing to do with rocks. As the other person stated about the Coast Guard Certification. If not for the rocker part there would be no certification or something to that affect. I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong. Let me ask this do rafts have a true rocker-no. Do they slide over rocks - sometimes,do they bounce off them yes a lot.
I could go on but it would be pointless.

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Re: [flygoddess] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Here is part of his statement.

"Yes they do have quite a bit of rocker but that factors into the river certifications. We have a 7 footer with almost no rocker and it was only certified class one. It has been down some pretty rough rivers and survived just fine but it was far from a comfortable ride "

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Re: [flygoddess] Buying a Pontoon In reply to

Can it be / yes / should it be ?
Here are a few very informative videos. Maybe just maybe this will explain how those little pontoons - well never mind they speak for themselves.
Running a rock

http://www.vidoevo.com/yvideo.php?i=WmZ0NFJLcWuRpblVMSVE&government-rapid-cataraft-broaches-on-a-rock-mid-rapid

Example of drops ect

http://alwayshd.com/ViewClip.php?Clip_Name=910107139&Tape_Name=9101071

Loscha River (where I will be picking up mine) great videoof small pontoons. And explains my takeon the LITTLE craft’s “rated” accidents waiting to happen. They are MUCH moreexperienced than me.

Link did not copy right. Copy and past the whole line.
(This post was edited by chrome_junky on Apr 30, 2012, 11:40 PM)

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to


Portage lol

That river is a toughy Cool

(This post was edited by drowning_flys on Apr 29, 2012, 9:34 PM)

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Re: [drowning_flys] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Tell me about it. I'd run away never mind portage. Watched them last year in 12' -14' cats. They got TORN-UP. Funny part watched the little itty bitty kayak's with spray skirts go right thru. Granted half the time they where under water but made it none the less . BRAVE SOULS.

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
 oh i can imagine always wanted to make it over to watch but something always seems to come up. Indeed very brave Cool

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Divin, you are the white water master here. I have no desire, nor did I read the original poster did, for running Class whatever white water. Big difference in running a river to fish that has a few white caps and Class ? white water.
I am not going back and forth anymore on this subject on mear wording. It doesn't really take a rocket scientist to understand how a rocker compared to no rocker works,.
It has got off topic and a bit redundant.

I have been on this forum for years and have learned that the majority buy Pontoons to replace a boat or a tube for fishing...NOT for river running.

We are talking apples and oranges here.

The poster stated his intent, I am offereing him boats in that field. Catacraft only builds frames and then orders pontoons from whomever to fill them. Some even use Scadden toons. They will even tell you, Scadden sales far more boats than they could ever dream of...why? Cause most people want an easy to pack fishing boat that can run rivers to their skill.

I am done, have fun.





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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Divin-Demon wrote:

Can it be / yes / should it be ?
Here are a few very informative videos. Maybe just maybe this will explain how those little pontoons - well never mind they speak for themselves.
Running a rock

http://www.vidoevo.com/yvideo.php?i=WmZ0NFJLcWuRpblVMSVE&government-rapid-cataraft-broaches-on-a-rock-mid-rapid

Example of drops ect

http://alwayshd.com/ViewClip.php?Clip_Name=910107139&Tape_Name=9101071

Loscha River (where I will be picking up mine) great videoof small pontoons. And explains my takeon the LITTLE craft’s “rated” accidents waiting to happen. They are MUCH moreexperienced than me.

Link did not copy right. Copy and past the whole line.

http://boatertalk.com/video/video.php?id=HUpzFRZRZN4




Doesn't look like big boats can run this either, so what's your point, who can crash worse?

http://youtu.be/J_nng5H4vm8





CHECK OUT MY BLOG http://utahflygoddess.blogspot.com/
http://www.utahflydrifters.com/guides/profiles.htm
(This post was edited by flygoddess on Apr 30, 2012, 3:59 AM)

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Re: [flygoddess] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
cpierce
"If so you need one that is rated for class 4 waters. Usually that means at least 9-10 ft long. Check out what will be the roughest water you want to get into and gauge by that. "
"I personally like the North Fork Outdoors Renegade or Assault. They are both rated for class 5 whitewater. They are 9 ft long, weigh between 25 to 30 pounds and are frameless"

flygoddess
"Cgives excellent advise"
"It is just a rating saying they have been taken down this water by a professional and the boat did fine. "
"By mentioning the Renegade, the Rampage, the Assault, the XX or any of the frameless models and even the X5 you are really talking apples and oranges from the sounds of it." ( Obviously I did not mention them ).
"Maybe you should look at the other line of NFO that is more equal to this like the Professional Guide. More apples to apples"
I agree it would be more" apples to apples " which could be done,I was commenting on what WAS being discussed.
"Is this Riverrunner? Same one that was banned from Washington? Sorry but no linking to other forums. "
"I know, that Riverrunner is a piece of work"
"I have not doubt you are NOT Riverrat "
Reversal,speaks for itself.

Idahoron.
" There is a big difference in river fishing and white water fishing. I would not think of taking my boat down the middle fork I don't have the skills'
While I understand the statement, The comments ARE about class 4 water on rivers while fishing ( not necessarily fishing in or thru that ) and classifying boats class 5 especially framless ones

flygoddess
"Divin, you are the white water master here. I have no desire, nor did I read the original poster did, for running Class whatever white water. Big difference in running a river to fish that has a few white caps and Class ? white water"

Far far from it , I have though been on the water enough fishing, rafting , sailing ( 27' Cal ) diving ( my greatest passion ) to have an opinion.
The posts speak for themselves I did not bring up class 4 in rivers ( while fishing ) , I am not the one(s) that compared the Renegade / others to class 5 not " whitecaps and class ? white water " another reversal ? I did have an opinion if class 4 or 5 would be a possibility then there are " much better choices out there ".
You seem to take great offense to anybody having any opinion other than purchasing a Scadden unit. I stated for certain things I felt they where great . I guess that is not good enough.

Yes I posted videos and what "rockers" where designed for . I think which was my intent , is that the videos show that even WITH the right equipment what real class 3 or above is like. And what it would be like for anybody thinking of trying it in a frameless or small framed unit. I,like you am entitled to have that opinion.

I clearly stated I have no relationship with any person or manufacturer involved in the business. My question to you ? What is your relationship with NFO other than being a guide that has you so defensive on someone else's opinions.

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Divin-Demon wrote:
cpierce
"If so you need one that is rated for class 4 waters. Usually that means at least 9-10 ft long. Check out what will be the roughest water you want to get into and gauge by that. "
"I personally like the North Fork Outdoors Renegade or Assault. They are both rated for class 5 whitewater. They are 9 ft long, weigh between 25 to 30 pounds and are frameless"

flygoddess
"Cgives excellent advise"
"It is just a rating saying they have been taken down this water by a professional and the boat did fine. "
"By mentioning the Renegade, the Rampage, the Assault, the XX or any of the frameless models and even the X5 you are really talking apples and oranges from the sounds of it." ( Obviously I did not mention them ).
"Maybe you should look at the other line of NFO that is more equal to this like the Professional Guide. More apples to apples"
I agree it would be more" apples to apples " which could be done,I was commenting on what WAS being discussed.
"Is this Riverrunner? Same one that was banned from Washington? Sorry but no linking to other forums. "
"I know, that Riverrunner is a piece of work"
"I have not doubt you are NOT Riverrat "
Reversal,speaks for itself.

Idahoron.
" There is a big difference in river fishing and white water fishing. I would not think of taking my boat down the middle fork I don't have the skills'
While I understand the statement, The comments ARE about class 4 water on rivers while fishing ( not necessarily fishing in or thru that ) and classifying boats class 5 especially framless ones

flygoddess
"Divin, you are the white water master here. I have no desire, nor did I read the original poster did, for running Class whatever white water. Big difference in running a river to fish that has a few white caps and Class ? white water"

Far far from it , I have though been on the water enough fishing, rafting , sailing ( 27' Cal ) diving ( my greatest passion ) to have an opinion.
The posts speak for themselves I did not bring up class 4 in rivers ( while fishing ) , I am not the one(s) that compared the Renegade / others to class 5 not " whitecaps and class ? white water " another reversal ? I did have an opinion if class 4 or 5 would be a possibility then there are " much better choices out there ".
You seem to take great offense to anybody having any opinion other than purchasing a Scadden unit. I stated for certain things I felt they where great . I guess that is not good enough.

Yes I posted videos and what "rockers" where designed for . I think which was my intent , is that the videos show that even WITH the right equipment what real class 3 or above is like. And what it would be like for anybody thinking of trying it in a frameless or small framed unit. I,like you am entitled to have that opinion.

I clearly stated I have no relationship with any person or manufacturer involved in the business. My question to you ? What is your relationship with NFO other than being a guide that has you so defensive on someone else's opinions.


Actually, you did start the white water portion of this thread (reversal) and you read my first response, I said I prefer, I am a long time satisfied customer (no affiliation....reversal?) And I mentioned Outcast and Bucks, both made in Boise Both of which I have owned. I never mentioned relationship with any person or manufacturer involved in the business -reversal?
The thought of white water never entered my mind with many years of floating and fishing different sections of the snake. But then I didn't look for them either, I fish.
I too posted a video of the smaller frameless floating some white water...reversal?
You did mention that NFO was great for certain things and that is your opinion which you are entitled to. I think you are right, this is one of those things, my opinion.

It all boils down that in fact, he was looking more for what CPierce, Idahoron and I were offering...reversal?

I have no idea your problem but maybe re reading this post might turn a light on.





CHECK OUT MY BLOG http://utahflygoddess.blogspot.com/
http://www.utahflydrifters.com/guides/profiles.htm
(This post was edited by flygoddess on Apr 30, 2012, 12:13 PM)

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
DD, clearly you are very experienced in white water. I'm not. I get the feeling that you are feeling that we are being confrontational. I don't really think so, and I hope you don't take it that way. You seem to have some good info and expertise to share in river running. I hope you will continue to do so. The rafts you have mentioned would be excellent for those situations. They might be more than what FishingRookie is looking for, but it is still good advise for someone else that has more of a whitewater need. I am glad you shared it and the links. I have learned a lot.

The only reason that I mentioned a white water rating at all is that with most of the waters in southeast Idaho it is a good idea to have a craft that is well designed and will handle wind, waves, and mild rapids. I didn't mean that the South Fork is a class 4 or 5. I don't think it is, but before I took any craft on even the smoothest part of it I would want to be comfortable with that pontoon's weight capacity and design. A white water rating in just one way to look at the design and that the craft's capacity.

I wouldn't want to take a 5 or 6 ft long "still-water design" pontoon on any moving water. .. Not even the slow sections of the Snake. It would probably work OK for some of it, but it is better to be a little "over dressed" for the water in my opinion.

The original poster was asking about fishing some lakes and some gentle floats in the area. I got the impression that he wants something compact yet still big enough to be comfortable and safe in. In my opinion the Scadden crafts, Sportsman, and Outcast Pontoons would work for that. A good second hand find would probably work fantastic for him.

For just still water I also like my Fish Cat 4, but I wouldn't float it in the river. I mentioned the Renegade because it has worked well for me, and I think it is enough of a "middle of the road" pontoon to be very versatile. I initially got one myself instead of a framed pontoon because it was very light at about 25 lbs, and it will fold down to fit in my sedan.

I am a 60 year old whimp of a woman and I have no problems packing this boat. To me this is an impressive design, given that it will also work with a motor and can handle some mild river fishing. For me that covers a lot of areas, and I have been very impressed with the workmanship, maneuverability, and design.

It is supposed to be a middle level, one man, compact fishing boat. It does that, and even though it is "rated" for class 5 water, I would never attempt anything even close to that with it. It would make it, but I wouldn't!!! LaughLaugh

On the other hand, a larger whitewater raft would be way more than I could handle or need. But everyone's needs are different, and it is always good to know some more options and opinions.

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Re: [cpierce] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
cpierce,I think your reply was extremely reasonable and appropriate and I never thought you where being confrontational. I quoted your post as far as the POSSIBILITY of class 4 water. I highly recommended the renegade for flat water,packing in, and as you put it mild river fishing. By the way I am also a 60ish wimp of an old man.

In as much as what was said and why it is all there. I had concerns and voiced them. It is unfortunate that voicing an opinion caused such a stir. I guess the french in me can make me like a bull in a china shop. Our opinions differed. Thats OK and neither of us should of let it get on the personal side. For that I apologize.

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Re: [Divin-Demon] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Does anyone know anything about the bucks bag bronco? It's the older 8' model. Someone here local wants to trade me for a gun that I own. I looked it up online and it looks like its an older model but that it comes with much of the features and designs of the newer ones?

Any info is appreciated

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Re: [FishingRookie] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
 There good toons my wife has one. they have padded seat anchor system padded arm rests and hard rear deck but no real way to attach a motor unless you buy a bracket system from bucks. most of the broncos came with the longer two piece oars. they also have a stainless steel frame why they did sell for quite a bit new i have seen several sell for 300 to 350. If your gun is worth more maybe see if you can work a little cash into the sell.





(This post was edited by drowning_flys on May 1, 2012, 6:39 AM)

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Re: [drowning_flys] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Thanks for the info. I'm still trying to get some more info from the seller but I think it's a good toon.

How does it handle the water?

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Re: [FishingRookie] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Looks like a good boat. Bucks has a good reputation. Here are some reviews from outdoorreview dot com They are older, but they should be about the same for the one you are looking at.

Reviews 1 - 5 (6 Reviews Total) | Next 5[/url]
Review Date
April 21, 2004
Overall Rating
4 of 5
Value Rating
4 of 5
Visitors rate this review
4.00 of 5, 4.00 votes

Reviewed by: hciecl, 40 days a year
Summary:
Nicely designed workhorse of a boat. Durable. I rented the 8' when I was trying out different boats. Very good overall at a reasonable price. I opted for the PAC 9000's and 1000 as they are a step above though at a bit of a premium.
Customer Service:
unknown
Similar Products Used:
Pac 9000, 1000, Waterskeeter, Scadden, ODC, Bucks Southfork




[/url]
Review Date
March 7, 2004
Overall Rating
5 of 5
Value Rating
5 of 5


Reviewed by: rcher , 50+ days a year
Summary:
A very nicely made boat that assembles and disassembles quickly. It handles well on the water and is well balanced. It is a very stable fishing platform.
Customer Service:
The best part was the customer service. I had some problems with this boat, and they were handled swiftly and professionally.




[/url]
Review Date
August 1, 2003
Overall Rating
5 of 5
Value Rating
5 of 5
Visitors rate this review
1.00 of 5, 1.00 votes

Reviewed by: Dean
Summary:
I bought my Bronco Extreme 9' last summer and have used it about 10x. The stainless steel frame seems very durable and the welds were done right. The pontoons are very rugged, and my impression is that Bucks Bags products are just well made. My father purchased the BB Adventurer 9' for $399 and is amazed at the quality.
Customer Service:
Not needed yet
Similar Products Used:
Outcast


.

[/url]
Review Date
May 22, 2003
Overall Rating
5 of 5
Value Rating
5 of 5


Reviewed by: peter lena , 40 days a year , from ledyard ct usa
Summary:
very solid and secure fishing platform,easy to force fin,never use the oars."if your rowin your not fishin".love the armrests around the seat,makes for comfortable fishing.boat bag fits behind seat.i fish the west every year so i have compared different boats,the bronco is the best.
Customer Service:
good ,very responsive.
Similar Products Used:
hobie cat,a real sled on the water,worst seat on the market.creek company terrible seat,no arm rests.




[/url]
Review Date
July 9, 2002
Overall Rating
5 of 5
Value Rating
5 of 5
Visitors rate this review
4.50 of 5, 4.00 votes

Reviewed by: John , 50+ days a year , from Spokane, WA
Summary:
Previously owned entry level Waterskeeter. Purchased Bronco on "close-out". Seat & frame sits higher than on Waterskeeter...less drag & better rock dodging. Easier rowing..sensitive maneuvering. Lots of storage, more than needed for day trips with all pouches on. Frame a little bit difficult to assemble. Manuf. could provide more info on assembly & positioning of frame vs. tubes in order to properly balance. Would prefer it would come with 7' oars & rod holder.
Customer Service:
Haven't used them yet....guess that's a good thing, :-).
Similar Products Used:
Waterskeeter Castaway
[/url]

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Re: [FishingRookie] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
I have owned an older bucks alpine 7' great toon, if wasn't for the fact of no motor mount I probably would still have it , probably should of taken the time to build a motor mount, just finished a motor mount for my son's sportsman 8 that also does not come with a mount . If I run across a good deal on a Bucks I will get it, and sell my sportsman 9, which I think for the money is an excellent toon, but I am not in business of whitewater, so I have no opinion, or desire , being way into the 60'ish I will stick to the stillwater or possibly the Bighorn below yellowtail, I can handle that.

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Re: [FishingRookie] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
If I can attach a motor to my Alpine, the Bronco would be a piece of cake. You can make one easy enough. Here it is. The battery is actually sitting length ways. And we took the head off the motor and added extention cables.



Broncos are cool boats. Not sure if it is Urethane or Vinyl bladders, but the outer cover is good and thick.





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Re: [flygoddess] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
Sold my Alpine to a friend that I fish with all the time, after him seeing me with the motor on Strawberry in the wind, he too wants a motor on the alpine, so I will also be making a motor mount , plus a aluminum platform, same as the one I built for my sons toon. If I had to guess that picture sure looks like Daniels ???

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Re: [FishingRookie] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
 Handles the water great we have been caught out in good sized rollers when the wind picked up and she has had it on the south fork a few times and did fine. If your wanting a motor mount I dont think it would be to hard i built one for my southfork along with an anchor mount and it added very little weight and works great. I would trade my south fork for one if i could find one at a good price that's how good i think they are.



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Re: [drowning_flys] Buying a Pontoon In reply to
drowning-flys love what you did with your trailer that I saw somewhere else. I might use your idea if thats ok. Stripping my 10' quad trailer now.

For added interest two ads in KSL.

Venture Outdoors Colorado Dura Pro 10' Pontoon Boat $900
( the one with the rotational molded bladder ) .
Sweet set-up, light bar ect.
http://www.ksl.com/...2&search=pontoon

Bucks Bronco. $ 450
http://www.ksl.com/...1&search=pontoon

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