Fishing

Anyone tried fishing with a soda can rig, no rod/reel necessary?

Don't think this is legal in Utah but, anyone know?

http://survivaltek.com/?p=2808
Do Right and Fear No One

We call those "Sinaloa spinning reels". They do work well if you know how to operate them. Just twirl the sinker and hook rig around your head, point the end of the can outward and let 'er go. Problem is that a lot of line ends up broken off and the shorelines in the areas used by those use fish with them become impossible to fish with other gear. You are constantly snagging on discarded or broken line. And heaven help the tuber or boater who gets blown ashore and has to walk through that gauntlet of monofilament...or dodge the rocks thrown by the "tanglers" who fish with those rigs.

They ARE legal...as long as they do not have more than two hooks...just like a rod and reel. However, most of the folks who use them don't even bother with a license...for the one line or the ten others they have strung along the bank.

You are absolutely correct they are legal. You can't believe how many of these I see on the banks where I work along the shores of UL and JR here in Saratoga Springs.
What is not legal is to be more that a set distance away from a soda reel. I forget the distance set by State Law.
Contrary to popular belief, it is very easy to find the owner of these. Just simply pick it up and proceed to throw it away, someone will come running out of the bushes chanting at you.

I wrote a comment on BFT a few weeks ago about the need of the State to deputize law abiding fisherman. It did not recieve much feedback unfortunately as I felt more of us fisherpeople would feel as strong as I do about the rampant poaching that is taking place along OUR waters and with OUR fish.
The State could pre-qualify citizens, maybe even give them dedicated Hunter hours or something like that, and get legal eyes out there with the capacity to issue HEAVY fines.
I really liked an idea someone posted about 3 weeks ago. The idea was to lower, or at least not raise, license fees but to issue very heavy fines. The fines would be akin to speeding through a school zone that was also under construction while you were drunk and your 1991 Honda Accord was out of registration by 4 years.

If someone is using a rod and reel...or a "legal" handline (not a setline) they must remain within sight of the rig. Maximum distance 100 feet. If they have bought a setline permit and have it properly set and labeled...per instructions in the proc...then they can leave it and come back later.

Howsomever, as previously suggested, most of those who use these things are not really concerned about the fine points of the law. They stay by their cerveza casting rigs just so somebody else does not rip them off or pull in their hooked fish.

Those of us who regularly float tube fish the Knolls have all had runins with the element that illegally cross fences and fish posted areas...using these rigs. When they have set up camps along the no fishing shorelines...string out these rigs...we can't get within rock throwing range without fear of getting "beaned". And if we move in to cast in to the shoreline when the violaters have all gone, we find that there is still no fishing. It is impossible to fish jigs in the tangle of lines left behind...many of them just abandoned. Some clearly being maintained as setlines...but without the legal steps necessary.

Heaven help those of us who need to walk the shoreline back in during a big blow. Without a machete to cut through the tangling lines we get hogtied by all the lines...some of it strong enough to anchor a battleship.

It really is a shame that there is not the manpower or the effort expended to regularly patrol these areas and to slam the violators. I have tried to talk to some of them and they just laugh at me. They know they have little chance of being caught...and if they are they are never arrested...even without licenses.

I did something similar on a wilderness backpacking trip, but I used a plastic 35mm film canister for my reel. Wound about 50 ft of line around the canister, placed hooks inside, and set the cap on the tag end to keep the line contained. Very lightweight.

At a suitable lake, I rigged up the hook on the end, attached some wood for bobber/casting weight, put a grasshopper on the hook, inseted two fingers in the film canister, twirled the hook/wood and let it fly. Caught a couple brookies for dinner in just a couple min.

Less than an ounce, very small, and effective.

Only problem with fines, etc. Is getting them to pay. My bet is many of the illegal fisherman are illegal aliens as well. Giving fines to them, well you may as well just save the paper. Friend of mine was checked at strawberry and asked the official where he was a few minutes ago when some guys took out way too many fish. His response was that all they do is take away their fish cause its not worth through effort, time or money to try to prosecute them. Nice huh.

Sounds like the law-abiding folks should bring machetes...and the Ruger Blackhawk .44 magnum to back it up.
Do Right and Fear No One

All of you have identified very real problems that effect us all very deeply, even though we probably don't even realize the lasting negative effects.
We are all very caring and fairly bright fisherpeople on this forum, it is almost like a family.
There has got to be a way we can all brainstorm and figure out a solution instead of watching our precious resource get stolen right under our noses.
We all have fought/worked hard for the privilege to fish in this beautiful state.
Someday it is going to come down to force to protect what we love, how far away is that time?

It's a good news - bad news situation. The worst problems usually occur only in areas where there is no fee for fishing...so most of the favorite spots of law-abiding anglers are pretty much safe from this kind of "pollution". But where it does occur the people who are the worst offenders usually show up in groups and are practiced at intimidating folks who prefer to avoid confrontations.

Best to just stay away from them. But if confronted by them I can confirm that opening a fishing vest to reveal "hardware" will have them falling all over themselves to get away from you. I recently heard from a fellow tuber that he just wears a fake badge where he can flash it...and that it really works as poacher repellent.

Sad, ain't it? And the problem is not limited to our area. It is happening in many parts of the country. There were spots down around Phoenix where TubeBabe and I liked to go float tubing that we simply had to quit going. Got to be a bit scary to come back to our vehicle and find it surrounded by others...with no way out...and a group of surly looking folks all drunked up and spoiling for a confrontation...and not a ranger in sight.

Hey Shane, I'm going to say the same thing I did on my previous reply to LL. It's a double-edged sword. The violators are there because it is free access...or even illegal access. But the fish they typically catch...white bass and catfish...are not going to depopulate the lake. Might even do it a favor. The downside is that what they are doing is mostly illegal (no licenses, etc.). The upside is that few of them are good or lucky enough to catch more than a few fish on a good day.

The absolute worst part of the whole thing is that they are wanton trashers. It is almost as if they save all their trash at home and bring it to the lake to leave behind when they go. That kind of thing has already resulted in having some parts of Utah Lake closed to public access...and more spots will likely be lost to us if it does not change.

About the only things that will help are 1. Make all access around the lake subject to fees. I hate that idea but it WILL shut out a lot of the current problems. 2. Patrol more often. As mentioned, the officers often don't bother to write citations because they will be ignored...just like the need for fishing licenses. But if the violators were harassed enough...and maybe some confiscations of belongings...the word would get around and those spots would become less popular with people who see them as free recreation with no consequences for illegal behavior.

On Saguaro Lake, in Arizona, conditions hit rock bottom shortly after we left to move back to Utah. Formerly it was subject to an annual pass or daily fee...like Utah State Parks. There were pay booths at some access points but electronic "rangers" at other points...where you could pay by cash or credit card. But it go so bad with vandalism and destruction of both the pay stations and restroom facilities that access was completely shut off for a while.

The national forest system finally adopted a plan whereby you could no longer pay for access at the lake...even at a manned booth. The only legal access was through buying an annual pass or at least a day pass at designated locations around Phoenix. And any vehicle found parking inside the fee area without a pass was ticketed...and even booted. Furthermore, rangers made the rounds frequently and there were always two armed officers in every truck. Whaddayknow? Families can now use those spots again without fearing for their lives.

Oh yeah, there used to be a lot of "tin can tackle" around that lake too. No more.

I saw a group walking a net along the edge of the Jordan across the road from the pump house a couple weeks ago. They are nothing if not resourceful.

worst areas are "no fee" areas.......OR rock cliff arm of jordanelle. it's got a fee. it's also got the worlds largest gathering of pepsi can fishermen....

While I also hate to agree with fee areas for all access it is simple to look at the differnce in the fee areas and those where there is no fee. While there is some trash and line around in the fee areas where rangers are present it is minute in comparison to areas with no fees such as the roll gates, pump house and the knolls and Lincoln point. I would gladly fork over a few buck if it greatly reduced the amount of trash and the folks that leave it. Even the community ponds have become in many cases garbage dumps. The problem still is enforcement. Unless there is some degree of enforcement above what we see now the fees may not help. Even at Provo Boat Harbor there are many who risk a fine by not paying the entrance fee. All responsible fisher folk would love to see the trash trend reversed but without a larger law enforcement presence I suspect it wont happen. I also agree with others posting. Simply writing a citation that will not be paid will not have the same effect as arrest or confication of personal belongings. We confiscate for Big Game poaching violations maybe its time we did for other wildlife violations as well

Wet my line for a few minutes at a small community pond where my kids had an activity at the attached park. Two young boys were fishing with me - keeping the few fish they hooked - including a 6" rainbow.

One of them lamented as I released one back into the water that,"awww, you should have given that to me and I could have sold it!"

Now, I don't blame that boy, but it intimated a blatant disregard for the law - stemming from the community in which he lives.

That's what you call trying to get your money's worth for having to buy a license. What? No license? That's illegal...too. Probably just an oversight. Forgot to read the regulations...or couldn't read them in English.

Just for the record, I am not a racist or a bigot. I hate poachers and violators equally...regardless of race, color or type of tackle. In fact, one of my biggest "send-offs" is a group of white rednecks trying to outdo the "other groups"...in terms of noise, fishing violations and trashing. Another are the groups of young folks who believe they cannot enjoy the wilderness without being under the influence...of something...and practicing their proficiency at profanity.

Makes my poor old fisherman's heart ache to see our current state of disgrace on the waters. It's even worse when I think back to the days of my youth, fishing along clean, uncluttered stream banks and lake shorelines in my native state of Idaho. But, I have been back there in recent years and we don't got the exclusive on dipwad destruction. The problems are almost universal. Hail progress.

Maybe DWR could get together with ICE for some sting operations on some of these favorite haunts, as if they are not busy enough right now.

I guess we could all meet at Lee's Fish and Rice at 4 PM on the 12th and discuss some of these issues at the Anglers Den DWR open house, which is just across riverdale road from Lees at 5PM.

Maybe TubeDude and Skunked Again could duke it out over having white bass in Cutler, at this meeting.
I want to be in TubeDudes corner with a bucket and sponge.




>>>> Listen to the voices in your tackle box <<<<

I have run in to the groups or group at times and had a knife pulled on me...
But like once said its dumb to take a knife to a gun fight...

And yes the law did show up and took them away..

The one that pulled the knife was on parole...

And it helps to be in a boat and about 100' off shore..

The DWR was on there way and I was talking them to us at the time..

.
Bassrods likes to fish for bass using Mojo lures and Weights, and Parasite Weights.
Practice CPR...Catch, Photograph and Release.
Utah state C&R record 23.5"
Tight lines....

I wonder what would happen to a bunch of "gringos" down in Mexico if they were out in the boonies taking liberties with the local resources. Wouldn't turn around be considered "fair play"? Would it be chumming?


Fishrmn

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of others to differ from me in opinion."
— Thomas Jefferson

"The difference between genius and stupidity is; genius has its limits."
— Albert Einstein

I have fished along both the Pacific and Sea of Cortez sides of Baja...and down much of the Cortez side of mainland Mexico. Used to be great fishing and wonderful people everywhere. But my wife and I quit going down there and will probably never go again. Far too dangerous. If you only get your vehicles bashed in and goods stolen you are lucky. Far too often the people who drive in to remote areas are never seen again.

And if you are caught fishing without a license...by the navy patrol boats...there is no citation. You are treated like a foul criminal and stuffed into one of their horrible jails...and liklely not to see freedom again for months or years.

Toward the end of our years in Arizona there were endless stories of the robberies, assaults and killings of US citizens who were across the border simply to enjoy the fishing, diving or just traveling through the country. And it is not all the drug cartels either. There is a growing legion of desperate citizens who cannot survive without stealing from others. That is why a lot of them come to this country. If you want to be a successful criminal you have to go where at least some folks have something you can take from them.

It really is scary down there. Guns are illegal so only criminals have guns...lots of them. The drug groups actually have more and better weapons than any of the local police...and even the federal police in many cases.

I have to shake my head whenever I hear about us just running off folks that don't speak English, have no licenses and are taking fish illegally. In their country they would be brutally beaten and tossed in an overcrowded jail with murderers...and forced to "pay" for any morsel of food they were allowed to receive. In this country they are immediately "entitled" to free medical care, food and shelter. And if they are arrested for a crime they are simply "deported". In most cases they are back in this country and business as usual before the paperwork on their deportation has been filed.


EDIT: Sorry folks. My rant is over. Apologies to Liz and to anybody I offended.

Be prepared for more of this Herbert signed the Guest Worker program into law so if nothing is done come 2013 illegals only have to pay a small fine like 2K and they can legally work and play in Utah. Which in turn will bring the rest f the countries illegals to Utah ... yes yes there is criteria that has to be met for the guest worker program but if they cant track them now how are they going to enforce the criteria...

VOTE HERBERT OUT !!!

Not offended, there's nothing offensive about truth, TD. I like the idea of brainstorming some sort of solution. Vigilanteism is NOT the solution, it's one step shy of sheer anarchy. (I don't like the idea of giving **anyone** the authority to be judge, jury, and executioner.) Then again, I am certainly not okay with anyone just...taking...the resources that we all work and contribute for.

I certainly am willing and prepared to defend myself and my loved ones if needed (I wasn't kidding about the .44 magnum, and I'm a fairly decent shot with it too, even though I hate the thing. I guess the benefit is if the wheelgun runs out of it's 6 shots of ammo I could use it as a club...I generally only carry it in bear country though. I guess maybe that should change. The little XD .40 subcompact probably isn't quite as intimidating, if visual intimidation is necessary... )

But...deadly force is only okay when a life is threatened, IMO. "Stuff" is one thing, lives are another...entirely.

I don't think we have nearly as many DWR officers as we need. The state requires a lot of education, but then the pay is just rock-bottom. It takes a truly dedicated individual to tolerate that.

Have you guys all filled out the DWR fishing survey? http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/HNGVVMQ

They say it's for changes to 2013 fishing regs, but there is a section at the end where you can give input. I think it's very important that we all give as much input as possible, making clear what our concerns are, and suggesting any solution we come up with.

Sort of a pickle, isn't it??
Do Right and Fear No One

I used that kind of rig when I was a kid. Any can will work. I think I used a empty can of green beans. Fairmount Park on 9th East and about 2400 So used to have two big ponds that the Fish & Game would plant trout in them. As kids we used ride our bikes and fish with can rigs all the time.

Very good point on the vigilante thing. That can get out of hand and become more of a problem than a solution. On the other hand, there are a lot of farmers and isolated residents along the southern Arizona border that welcome the militia groups that have formed to help stem the nightly wave of illegals swarming across their lands and terrorizing residents who get in their way.

The best we can hope for in our area is to remain alert to problems and have our cell phones ready to report violations as we observe them. Because of the lack of available manpower...sheriffs, police and DWR...there may be some situations that do not get satisfactorily addressed. But we at least have to try. And jumping in with guns blazing is not the way to do it.

Also a good idea to be vocal about our concerns whenever and wherever we have the chance. The DWR survey is a good place to start. But we also have elected officials that need to get more of an earful from concerned citizens. Those who are in the country illegally...and who violate our laws...need to be given fewer entitlements and to be detained and treated with more aggressive deterrents.

Whenever I see a news program that has officials prosecuting and deporting family members who have been here for years and working responsibly...while letting repeat criminal illegals back out on the streets...well, my blood pressure doesn't need that stuff.

Uhhhhh...this started out with a discussion about fishing tackle, didn't it?

+1 and a bunch more. Very valid points, all of them...so we all need to get off our collective backsides and let our elected reps know. Better yet, hey TD...ever considered running for office?
Do Right and Fear No One

Yes indeed back to fishing tackle. I believe Lurkins original question was in regards to the tin can reels possibly as a survival tool. From our many comments it is obvious they can be and are used and can be effective for getting the chosen bait out to the fish holding area. I once saw an older gent out at the knolls that was casting a pretty good distance with a bell sinker a size 2 hook using one of the can/reels. He caught a few kitties. It will work in a pinch.