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felt soles

Allen Fly Fishing
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felt soles
I know that this has been discussed a lot, but I would like to give you the method I have been using to have safe gear.

Felt soles take a long time to dry and can carry pathogens of all kinds. ANY gear that isn't fully dry can also be a carrier, from shoelaces to leather uppers.
So what do we do?

First off, I don't think it needs to be legislated, but it does need to be educated.

I quit using felt quite a while ago, but as I have better come to understand the problems involved, I am now back to a limited use of felt soled shoes.

I am also using a limited use attitude for all of my wading gear....

Here is what I am doing. I have several pairs of felt or other wading shoes and a couple of pairs of waders. If I am in one drainage I use one set there. If I move to a new area to fish, I use a completely different set of shoes and waders. Sometimes I wet wade without waders, but again a new set of pants, socks, and shoes for a new area.

Sometimes I may want to visit more areas before I come home. Even if my stuff is dry, I heat up some water and bathe my gear in +140 degree water before using it.

When I get home, or sometimes in camp if I know I am moving on, I clean and hot water treat all my wading shoes and gear and then let them dry again. That way, even if the aren't completely dry, I know that they are good to go.

Anyone else doing something similar?
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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
I agree 100%. I have always cleaned my gear after each use and a little surprised to hear and read many long timers didn't, but do now. That is a plus.
I had felt sole on my Hippers that I wear when in my pontoon. No law outlawing them so I used them, but I can assure you, they were seriously cleaned after every use. Even when guiding, all gear got sprayed and hosed down after every trip, even if only one hour.

I think if you clean and are responsible, and don't wait to be told, felt has it's place.

However, just replaced my hippers after 8 years. Rubber soles have replaced them, but those shoe laces and the tongue do get serious cleaning.



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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
cp,

How long do you bath it for in the 140+ water?

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
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Re: [flygoddess] felt soles In reply to
Flygoddess:

When spraying down your gear and rinsing how long do you let it dry out and how do you dry it out?

On your rubber bootfoots how do you seriously clean the laces and tungue? I presume you seriously clean the rest of the wader,also?

dB

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
I just found a pair of felt soles with cleats for my Korkers. Got a good deal on them since they are so old now. That gives me four sets of soles for them. I am sure that I will continue to mostly use the rubber soles with carbide tipped replaceable steel 3/16" cleats. Just love those things in the river and mountains.

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] felt soles In reply to
Just make sure it is all well soaked or wetted with the hot water. I normally use water that is a little bit hotter than 140 if my stuff is wet and either pore it over the laces etc or set it in. I don't think it has to be a set time, just that the heat and water penetrate all areas. Most invasive species die at 110 degrees. My felt soles get the longest soaking treatment.

Boats etc are sprayed with the hot water at AIS wash sites. It is basically the same process.

My problem was that I was out on extended trips and needed a way to make sure my stuff would not carry anything from one place to the next. I do the same for my rubber soled boots as I do to the felt.
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] felt soles In reply to
I use 409 plus the hot water. I can say I don't hit several waters. If multi days, then one water.
One the waders, also a quick check to wash off mud and dirt. I have two set ups of gear so IF I am hitting different water, I use different gear. It does have time to dry.
I also monthly WASH my waders in the washer.Cool



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Re: [flygoddess] felt soles In reply to
Hey Flygoddess:

I presume you are making sure that it is the right formulation of Formula 409. It used to be only their "Commercial Solutions" Formula 409 " Cleaner Degreaser Disinfectant". I have found this at Home Depots and Lowes at different times; in gallon containers.

But now they have several other products that have the quanternary ammonium compounds in them. However, they probably are not in big enough bottles. You will want to soak stuff in a 5 gallon bucket so you are going to need at least two and half gallons of a 50/50 solution of cleaner and water. Thus you will want at least a gallon and a quarter of Formula 409 with Disinfectant.

Several Manufacturers make cleaners with disinfectant but you must make sure it is the right disinfectant
(check the label for active ingredients containing
alkyl dimethyl benzylammonium chloride [ADBAC]; or dieacyl dimethyl ammonium chloride [DDAC]).

What a mouthfull that is.

I presume you are doing the recommended 10 minute soak.

On edit I added:

Note that spraying the stuff on has proven to be in adequate for at least Mudsnails. I have no info with respect to didymo and everything else.

dB

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
(This post was edited by Scruffy_Fly on Jul 27, 2012, 9:26 AM)
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] felt soles In reply to
You bet.



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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
I have not done any literature research in a few years about hot water treatments but this is what I got several years ago.

A NZ Biosecurity evaluation demonstrates that Didymo can be killed by submersion in water heated to 60C ( 140F) for 1 minute or 20 minutes at 45C ( 113F) of submersion. This is for none porous items that do not absorb water.
For boots with felt soles or other soft absorbent materials it takes full submersion in hot water for 40 minutes , at least 104F (40C). With using 5% dish detergent in the water then you can get away with 104F for 30 minutes. Note that 5% means 6.5 fluid oz. (over 3/4 cup) of dish detergent for each gallon of water. One needs to validate the temperature of the water was maintained through the whole process. Other soft items that absorb water will require similar treatment. Examples of these soft items would be leather uppers on boots etc. web straps, soft fabrics of boots, shirts, socks


A person can with some pain keep their hands in 104F water. At 140F the water is too hot for the hands to remain submerged. Thus if you can keep your hands in it then it isn't hot enough.

For NZMS this is what the Oregon Sea Grant organization published in 09:

"Soak gear in a bath of hot water (at least 120F, 46C) for 10 minutes.
This method is not advised for Gortex."


dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
Then there is in, my opinion, the weak sound byte slogan that a lot of the government agencies, Federation of Fly Fishers, and TU promote:

Always inspect, clean and dry all equipment.

On edit I added:

They don't directly promote using any chemicals which they fear will further damage the environment. Makes it almost impossible for a multi-day or multi-river trip unless you do have several sets of equipment to use.

sounds good but they never really explain well about how to clean out and flush the inside of boots or anything else.

Nor do they spend much about explaining what they mean by dry. Which is dry to the touch plus another 48 hours. Nor do they expound upon how felt soles are definitely a case of where complete drying to base of the material is apt to take longer.

But if they did they probably would loose the interest of most people anyways. Have I lost your interest yet?

Multiday trips do present a challenge.

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
(This post was edited by Scruffy_Fly on Jul 27, 2012, 9:32 AM)
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] felt soles In reply to
Thanks Scruffy. Lots of good information there. I was soaking until good penetration, but I'll go longer now.

My main thing is having several pairs along or wet wade in different shoes etc. But I do like to clean and treat as soon as possible so that I know things are dead, because I to am never sure on the "has it been dry long enough" thing.Crazy
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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
If you have the room for a freezer in the garage I always thought the freezing your waders, boots, reels was a very reasonable option.

A draw back to freezing I discovered when I was living at 10,000 ft, where it would freeze over night a lot , is that that repeated flexing over time cracks the leather in boots. I would leave my equipment hanging in the garage and it would be frozen in the morning. First thing, i would thrown on my equipment and drive the short distance to the river.

Thus don't unfold your waders or pull you line off the reel or put your frozen boots on until it has had time to at least partially thaw.

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
(This post was edited by Scruffy_Fly on Jul 27, 2012, 10:23 AM)
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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
I cant believe that soaking your gear like boots in 140 degree water is very good for them, maybe it wont harm them. but after dishwashing for a couple years and working with a dishwasher that heats water to 148 degrees it will quickly start to destroy most everything you put in it other than metal, aluminum, and glass/ceramic even heavy duty plastic gets worn out pretty fast. Couple with chemicals and stuff wears out even faster.

Is there a better more gear friendly solution than extreme heat and harsh chemicals? I tend to only fish maybe 2 different rivers but still like to give my stuff a bath in bathing temperature water in the bath tub while scrubbing with Dawn.
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Re: [flyfisher117] felt soles In reply to
flyfisher117:

I hope you are thoroughly drying your stuff for a couple three days before using it again. Note that felt soles, shoe laces, webbing type materials, leather, inside of boots, etc can still be damp deep inside the material while the material feels dry to the touch.

There is NO, NUNN, NADA easy simple quick universal method. Nothing will kill all the invasive species one needs to worry about.

Copper sulphate pentahydrate is quite mild chemically to your fishing equipment. But it is toxic to many plants and animals. It is used in ponds to kill algae and some plants. It has been tested to kill New Zealand Mudsnails also.
Copper is used in marine paints to counter act barnicals from growing on ship huals. It probably kill the other bugs that fish eat so you will want to rinse your equipment well if you use it. Copper is added some marine paints to counter act barnicals from growing on ship hulls.

Environmental organizations are no longer recommending any chemicals because of fears of chemical build up in streams and other water ways. I think they envision thousands upon thousands of people depositing small amounts of chemicals in the stream over eons.

Copper sulphate pentahydrate, 99% pure, can be located as a sewer root kill product in Hardware stores. Some cities and towns have taken to pressuring such stores to not stocking this type of root killer because it can cause problems with their sewer water purification plants especially with biological purification methods. At any rate you need to read all the warning labels about use of pesticides on the container.

This page has some info on using it to kill New Zealand Mudsnails and Dydimo:

http://flyline.com/environmental/nzms/

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
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Re: [Scruffy_Fly] felt soles In reply to
When going inbetween the two rivers?? Yes they usually have a good week or two to dry.


I usually go fishing in the one river clean my gear, two weeks later go to same river or go to other river. Clean gear. Two weeks later, go to one of the rivers again. Thats about as often as I can go.

I have a pair of all rubber hip boots for when Im traveling I usually hit them with the pressure washer, should they get cleaned any other way?
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Re: [flyfisher117] felt soles In reply to
If you hip boots are ALL rubber without felt soles spray washing and complete drying four 48 hours should be excellent. The 24 hours dry time past the dry to the touch thing is to insure that any organism left on the item from inadvertent splash back or what ever has time to become dried to a crisp. Didymo is a single cell organism so you will never see that lone cell lurking in water splashed back onto your equipment..

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog
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Re: [cpierce] felt soles In reply to
I use a mild solution of clorox and water in a spray bottle
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Re: [GP] felt soles In reply to
And hopefully everyone else is taking this extra step.