Fishing

I'm all for multi use, but am I the only one that thinks the raft hatch (tubers) on the lower Provo river is outta control? It's not even so much the private individuals, but the commercial outfits running "river trips."

If you haven't witnessed it this summer it's crazy how many people that are floating. Not too mention all of the crap that gets left behind. Traffic, parking, etc..

I really dislike most govt regulation, but I hope someone is keeping an eye on the situation.

Every time I drive up that canyon I wonder how anyone can fish it, only one of the reasons I avoid that river.

That's the whole point of the Provo. It's to take up all those up for a close by raft trip and uppity fishermen that don't know how to fish for truly wild trout in remote places. Start to restrict it and do you know how many great streams in Utah would be discovered and then ruined. The more the merrier in my book.
Men think that they own the water they use. You might as well claim [the] air.... to say that you own the water.
- Mr Murdock
The Utah Constitution recognized and confirms the public's ownership of Utah Waters.
-Judge Derek P. Pullan, Fourth District Court, 21 Day of May 2012

Even though it sucks you do have to share things in this world.



-TDT (AKA Spike's Pike)

"Like you were gonna marry a carp and put in a tank or something, let it wear a pink dress, and have coffee and conversations with it." - harlin

Like any Lake around here it seems, you have to get there early to fish then leave when the Skier's, tubes and jet Ski's show up.

I hear ya, last year I was fishing the section off the highway were the old train bridge is. When two white vans pulled up and unloaded there rafts and hoards of customers. No big deal right... I know that section gets rafters but we all share the river but courtesy goes both ways.

They decide to set up shop right next me, launching there rafts not 5 feet from were I was standing. I could literally poke one in the eye with my fly rod that's how close they were to me.

When I asked if they didn't know what common courtesy was one of raft guides said its private property and they have permission ????

So I called there rafting outfits manager there phone number was on the side of there vans. The owner stated the same thing that he had permission from some Steve guy and not in so many words but F-off.

From my recollection that section was court order to be a public spot but thats besides the point showing a little courtesy goes along way they could have easily launched down stream there plenty of room there but this is the mentality of some of these some raft guides.

Any how I usually avoid the LP just because of the rafters I was soo pissed off that day I was this close to driving to Heber and kicking in door of there shop.

The "Steve" guy is non other than the brother-in-law of the guv of Utah.
(No favoritism there). Get ahold of the USAC- Utah Stream Access Coalition. Google it up. They know where the easements are.

Ya, im familiar with who Steve Ault is but didnt know he was the govs brother go figure... Doesnt matter that section was court ordered to be open to the public. That being said these guides have no right to stake claim on it, even if it they were given permission by Steve. The court order states its "Open to the Public for sole purpose of fishing" and "Recreational Use". that being said it comes down the "sharing" the river.

My point being it was the actions of the River Guides and there management, name dropping thinking since Steve gave them permission they had single use of that section and didnt have to share it.


Heres the link to the the USAC record

http://www.i9studios.com/...icAccessEasement.pdf


Oh and didn't mean to hijack your post Rapa

No problem. Sounds like there is more to the raft hatch story than I would have guessed. I don't mind sharing our natural resources with all kinds of user groups as long as its done responsibly . What's happening on the lower Provo is far from responsible IMHO . I drive along it weekly, and have done so for 12 years. I've witnessed the growing of the tubing "industry" on the river, and I'm concerned with what's going on. Not just concerned about the fishing, but all of the impacts that are taking place.

What really make my blood boil is one of the main issues HB141 was passed was Private Land Owners stating Anglers were causing so much trash along the shorelines.

But did nothing to prohibit tubers anyone can see that the majority of trash left behind is f discarded tubes, flip flops, clothing, and food and beverage containers.

Now what angler is going to leave a tube or flip flops ?

I agree with you the LP use to have allot potential as kids we use to camp just below Deer Creek Dam and you could see schools of hogs just swimming around.

Many years ago, there was a piece of hunting land that suffered a great deal of illegal trespass. Cut locks and fences were common.

So whenever an unoccupied vehicle was found on the property or just outside the gate, somebody would loosen all four valve stems a couple of turns. Four flat tires and a ten-mile walk to arrange for a tow/repair taught a hard lesson.

Sorry for going off-topic; my mind was wandering a little, that's all...



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

It can be tough when I want to catch something bigger than 13" inches from the middle to the nice fat 18" rainbow I got on the lower. I was fishing the banks during a nice caddis hatch and there was at least 40' of open water behind me and a family of four decided to go right between me and the bank i was fishing... Then he had the nerve to ask "hows the fishing?". maybe we better start throwing some big streamers at the tubers as they come down and invade their space... All in all if we could just show some respect to all who enjoy the river It would be much easier!

Have you fished any of the waters that are posted and have rafts running through them?

Remember, if a section of river is used for commercial floating, it is navigable "in fact" and the public has right of way if not out right ownership of the streambed.

They hatch on the Weber too, from Taggert down to Morgan. Tube hatches too, they hatch in clouds of 20 or so all at once.

I just take a seat, let them pass and then when the fish start up again I do too. The fish are getting used to them and will come back up pretty quick.

I saw an Orve hatch the other day on the Weber. First the water had a small mud line, then as I rounded the corner, there they were, 6 of them all San Juan shuffeling along, waders up to their arm pits, wader belts, the finest William Joseph chest packs....
Me standing there in my shorts, wading boots, 30 yr old vest and broken nippers hanging from my neck. Quite a contrast.

So by extension then, if you had come across a barefoot kid catching trout with a willow switch and a worm on a #6 hook, he'd be somehow superior to you with your vest, wading boots and fancy pants little feather bugs?

Let's not fragment the ranks here, folks. Just because some guys can afford better gear than us doesn't make them less "worthy" of being on the river. That works both ways; let's not disparage the guy with the glass rod, automatic reel and hip boots. We're ALL anglers.



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

So you see my point.

You've already "fractured" the ranks with the slams on floaters. Floaters have more rights concerning access than wading fishers have. They have the right, by law to flaot anywhere they can. We as anglers do not have the right to wade anywhere we can.

After all, floaters are recreationalists, just like fishers, so why disparge them. It's not like there are no rude fishers who come in on you while fishing. I've had them wade right through a pool I was fishing, like it was nothing. I've even had some cross the river to where I'm casting and wade through. I've had them get down stream and turn around and cast to the same place I am.

The floating by commercial rafts could be the thing that opens up many miles of now posted and closed river to all fishers. They could be our saving grace, like them or not.

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up water quality issues. "What goes down must come out."

The Salt River, down in the Phoenix area, also has great numbers of floating "recreationalists"...using the water as their constant and handy latrine.



Water samples taken above the put-in points and compared with some taken near the take-out point are radically different. High levels of "download" chemicals as well as coliform bacteria counts.

As strict as the water users are about Deer Creek being a potable water source...no dogs, etc...it would seem that they might get a bit testy about the rampant abuse of water quality by the floaters. And that is AFTER all the additional trash on the shoreline...and on the bottom of the river.

Tubers yes, rafters are not in the water so it is doubtful that they stand up, bare it all and tinkle. Not with a raft full of people you may not know and a guide.
Besides, the Salt Lake Aquaduct comes out right at or just below Deer Creek, after that the water is not culinary, it's irrigation.
There is no evidence that hte water quality is worse below the put in point in the Prove, after all these are Utahans, not Phoenixians.

I do note that cows, being sacred, can do things while standing right in the water above Deer Creek that would make you not want to drink it.

I have pretty much stayed away from all parts of the Provo River since my return to Utah in 2004. All it took was a look at the new regs, a couple of runins with the Orvis dorks and having to dodge the Coppertone crowd and you could stick a fork in me...I was done.

Used to spend a lot of quality fishing time on the lower...above and below the railroad trestle. An average evening produced multiple fish over 20 inches and few under 15. My last two (final) trips resulted in only a few lightweights...unless you count the ODs. And I was literally crowded out of my formerly favorite spot by a group of three ODs who insisted that this was THEIR spot. Since they were decked out in the most expensive gear they won the toss.

I am aware that the culinary water is removed from the Provo before it has a chance to become further degraded. But wasn't sure if there were other potential water users downstream that might object to "used" water. Not a biggie for Phoenix since virtually every drop of that water flows out into the cotton fields and either sinks into the ground or evaporates. Just some extra fertilizer for the crops. Doesn't even make for yellow cotton.

Not sure about Utah rafters but those in Arizona don't care much about what they do or who sees it. Fishing along the lower Salt River is not very good but you can sure get an education...and eye strain. Don't even need to throw beads to get flashed.

Mr Troll, kindly show me where I disparaged anyone. I haven't; in fact, I attempted to smooth the waters between angling types - and never mentioned tuber/rafters. I appreciate and welcome all anglers: your so-called Orvis types, everyday fly guys, spin fishermen...heck even trotliners.

If anyone has a right to get his back up about "tuber" comments, it is TubeDude.

If you object to rafters, tubers, kayakers, and river floaters of all kinds just avoid them. Fish weekdays, fish early or late - or fish other rivers.



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

Mr. Rock,
Your right, you posted about doing damage to someones private property, using examples like cutting locks and letting air out of tires, which could have put them in danger during a 10 mile walk. Then went on to say how people shouldn't "fracture'.

Your disguise is not that clever, or very good.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. It was a tangential remembrance unrelated to fishing in any way and the lock cutters were the illegal trespassers. I suggested nothing, implied nothing, and in ALL other posts pertinent to the subject have been nothing but civil and accommodating to one and all.

I won't reply to any further comments of yours, but will make a final observation that the screen name you chose for yourself may be apropos.



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

Please don't reply.
Don't read them either.

Newbie.

What you guys need to realize is that the tubers, rafters, and the rest of the flotilla are doing the anglers a considerable favor. In the stream access battle, it may be necessary to prove navigability for individual rivers and with that, liberalized access is gained and HB141 does not apply. A flotilla of rafters like what we see on the Provo, Weber, and others make proving navigability there a slam dunk. They also serve to gain from improved access the same as us. I can't believe that dork Ault would even be doing deals with rafting companies. It is all good for us. It is a small price to pay to share the river with them, and the eye candy is sometimes nice too.

If you want privacy, then do as Riverdog suggests, but otherwise what do you expect? They have as much right to be there as an angler.





Simon Peter saith.........I go a fishing. (John 21:3)

It appears that I drop kicked a hornets nest. Sorry.

I'll steer clear of the lower Provo for a few more weeks, and all will be fine in my world.

Besides, there's too much good bass fishing out there right now to mess with slimers, and I'm gonna get my fly fishing fix taken care of soon enough with rippin silvers in south east alaska. Good fishing and rafting to you wherever you want!

Not your fault, Rapala.

I agree completely that every coin has an obverse and a reverse. "Floaters" may be an annoyance but there may well come a time when their legal right to float buoys up our right to fish. Most things have hidden rewards if you wait long enough to discover them.

Maybe if I buy just one thing from Orvis...



Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult