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roll casting on stream????

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roll casting on stream????
ok so I need help with two things

1) how does one roll cast on a river/stream?
I am trying to fish form the bank not in the water, i can get a half decent roll cast when the line is down stream but then, as one would guess, the fly ends but back where it started. how/can I use a roll cast to get the fly back up stream a little to let it drift back on down stream? The river I fish I can't back cast and I dont yet have boots/waiters (have not needed them as a spin fisherman)

2) why when I cast does a nice loop of line roll on out until it tries to pull the fly up and out. Hard and fast, slow and smooth all the same... the line rolls out nicely and then hits the drag from the fly (mostly water logged at this point) and the fly just flips up on over landing with in 2 foot of the end of the fly line (w/ about a 9foot leader) is that normal? I dont know any one that fly fishes so i am sort of learning on my own

It is most likely that i still have much to learn but am I trying to do things that cant be done with flies ie roll cast back up stream some or am i expecting the flies to do something they will not ie extend out most of the leader length on a roll cast. I admit that i have solid a spinncasting mind set and i know the two are not the same at all but I wonder if my misconception / misunderstandings are getting in my way.
Any help is great

peace
(This post was edited by jim202000 on Jun 11, 2009, 9:24 PM)
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Re: [jim202000] roll casting on strean???? In reply to
Jim, it is hard to explain this to you so I am going to say, Check out You Tube, then type in Roll Casting....there are a bunch of great videos. Also, for the heck of it, because you mentioned the current of the river, check out you tubes of SPEY CASTING. I use that technique.



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Re: [flygoddess] roll casting on strean???? In reply to
thanks for the supportSmile

I have been watching you tube vids like they were an SAT prep back in high school. I have looked at the spey tecs but when I try them I just get slack line and crap casts (I am very sure that that is because I do need practice and knowldge). can the roll be done to move back up current or should I really focus back on the spey?
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Re: [jim202000] roll casting on strean???? In reply to
Jim I am 99% self taught when it comes to fly fishing and recall having the same issues the first couple of times out. Perfect the casting techniques with a shorter leader say 6 or 7 feet before you try it with a 9 foot leader. I'd say you want to fish several times out with shorter leader without problems before you try lengthening it. You can also be working on your stealth approach to the fish doing this. While the roll cast is a pretty basic technique I just don't use it much anymore. You need to ensure there is at least a little space behind and above you to do it. If your moving around a lot in tight areas (the best way to catch lots of fish on streams in my book) you have to at least glance behind you before attempting it. Look at some of the other casting techniques on you tube such as snake roll, spiral snake and the other similar ones. These are much more fluid movements and can be done with no space behind you or even if there a branch 3 inches above your head projecting past you and above the water. You can take the line from any position in the water and then use the space that is lateral to you (either side) and cast in any direction. The line utilizes the space that is in your peripheral vision so you're not having to constantly glance if you have room as you move about. There are unlimited ways to cast like this so just use the videos to get an idea of these techniques. Do what works for you in each situation and don't worry what they call the techniques or whether your doing the reverse double spiral snake roll right. It's all a lot easier than it looks, have fun and don't be afraid to experiment.
(This post was edited by riverdog on Jun 11, 2009, 9:45 PM)
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Re: [riverdog] roll casting on strean???? In reply to
the snake roll looks intimidating but I guess on that note everything is hard until you learn to di it

that might be a good tec to look into as it sounds better suited to where I am trying to throw line. On the leader I will shorten that too,I wanted to go shorter but everything says longer and smaller is better so I thought "well do as the locals I guess". Sounds like at the end of the day I need to learn whats necessary for my surroundings (I will continue to work on my other casting technique in other settings)

thanks ... any one else have thoughts
peace
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Re: [jim202000] roll casting on strean???? In reply to
Just pay attention to the wrist movements on these casts to get started. They are all pretty much done with with a smooth continuous circling motion of the wrist. You should plan to make that loop only once. With time you may occasional realize the the line isn't quite in the right position for casting out where you want. You then can instantaneously add a second loop to correct the position before casting out the line. And start out doing them all on the same side as you normally cast. When you have that down and encounter an obstruction on that side but the opposite side is clear you can learn to cast on the opposite side. Each step is quite simple, just takes a little practice to get it right.
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Re: [jim202000] roll casting on stream???? In reply to
using a shorter leader and tippet section will help with learning to control the cast.

Doing shorter roll casts until you get the muscle memory and the learning curve down will help.

Yes,this probably means that you will be casting to were the fish are not.

Part of the problem of trying to learn when fishing is that you are concentrating more on the fishing than on the learning. This slows the process of recognizing what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong.

Thus do some just practicing things and then do some fishing and the go back to just doing some practice things.

dB
disinfect your wading equipment. wash boat. disinfect livewells / sumps, wash ur dog