Fishing

Well, folks, our resident "bucket biologist" has become infamous for his notorious minnow transportation escapade.

From the tone of the article, he is being blamed for illegal introductions into all of Utah's waters. Shame on you Slayerace.

LINK TO ARTICLE

Sorry. I don't mean to make light of a serious situation. As we have pretty clearly established on this board...A BAJILLION TIMES...we do not condone illegal transport or introduction of any species into any waters.

Bummer to get whacked for having some minnow survivors in your aquarium though. Another case of "spirit of the law" vs "letter of the law".

I think it's extremely obvious that slayerace decieved many of you on this board. I feel sorry for all those that defended him. He said many times he didn't have intentions of keeping those fish alive, yet when a CO showed up at his home he found 6 of them still in his aquarium!!! He lied to all of us, and put our fisheries in danger!

from the article: "Anglers need to help the state battle bucket biologists and not whine about it when fellow anglers are caught breaking the law."

Nice job DWR. Nice job Prettyman.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

Letter of the law, my A$@, he wasn't very smart to keep them in an aquarium after he knew people had reported it to the DWR. If you break the law, don't let people know unless you plan on getting busted. The fine should have been much more for the potential damage it could have done.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

Hmmm...he has six fish swimming in his aquarium? The guy obviously lied...I wonder how many other things he lied about? Could his intentions have actually been to transport those fish somewhere else?

Where are the supporters now? Do you guys want to split his fine as well?
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

You've had your say. No need to try and instigate things. Glad you stopped by to grace our forum. Did you smell the blood?

GUILTY of Poor Judgement, as I see it. But you guys are just aching to pick the scabs. Go holier than thou each other somewhere else.

I think this publicity has been good, and the guy got what he deserved. I hope we all learned from this board and the article. Good Job, Brett.

Now lets all move on, nothing to see here folks.....

No need to get defensive there, I just remember WandB and PBH getting the wrath of many because they disagreed with the "it's just an accident" B.S. And no, the blood was smelled by the DWR knocking at his door. That's all the comment I have, rest in peace.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

So who is going to give the DWR their ticket for their illegal bucket biology.

John

Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. -- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

I did not "defend" the wrongful actions. I simply suggested that the point had been made...over and over...and that it did not need to be belabored. I probably would have been better off not to even post the link to the article, if everyone is going to use it as "I told you so" and start the debate all over again.

The article clearly proves that those of us who tried to protect slayerace from the seemingly overzealous hostility were in fact misinformed (lied to) ourselves. But, it is done, over with, kaput, finished, history. And, as with all things, we need to pay attention to history. It is a good teacher.

Good intentions are not enough. Being a nice guy in a bad situation is not enough. The law is the law and there are no exceptions. If one ignores the law, or blatantly violates the law, there are consequences. "Oopsie" is not a viable defense.

I'll agree dude was wrong, and after what went on on the boards a few weeks back when this thing started he didn't freeze the minnows, well a citation was deserved. I still don't see how six minnows in an aquarium equates to fisheries in mortal danger.

I have never met Slayracer, but if he pays his dues with the court, and he's normally an upstanding fisherman besides this one incident I would be happy to share a strech of water with him.

"There are those fish that operate within the bounds of the law and those that operate outside of it. These fish are Carp. For Carp the law is inadequate and they must be punished!!!" - The Carp Punisher

Carpman -- There's an old saying: "It just takes two"

It's all about potential.

Have you ever noticed the turtles along the Provo River, or Utah Lake? Where'd they come from? Someone's home aquarium.


I too have never met Slayer. I'm sure he is a good person. I want to think that his intentions were innocent. That's most likely why he was given only a $185 fine, vs. a felony charge of intent to distribute.

I think that the DWR did a good thing with this situation. They have shown that they do take bucket biology seriously, and will not tolerate people moving live fish around in this state, whethere they intend to distribute them or not. Hopefully, this one situation has prevented others from happening. That's the positive that needs to come from all of this.

As for sharing a stretch of water with others -- my waters are always open for company.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

The same reason the fishery in the Yellowstone Lake drainage is in mortal danger...because six little fishies can multiply into thousands and even millions and all it takes is two to wreck everything.

Is there an underground river system leading from this guys basement aquarium out to open water that we dont know about ???

I in no way support bucket biology. And after all of the controversy this thing caused awhile back, and the fact that he knew that he had been reported, he will probably agree that he deserved the ticket out of plain bone-headedness.

I concur with John hovever. 90% of the fish that you people fish for and routinely post reports about, are non-native speices, most of them introduced by the DWR.

It reeks of hipocracy !!!

I could smell the warnings in some of the previous posts on this thread though, that we had better get back to talking about the fact that we can now ice fish at Hunnington , and that the water at Strawberry is 40.2 degrees and white jigs work well.

After all, I belive it was made clear to all of us that THAT is what this board is for, and not for a broader discussion of the issues that affect the future of fishing in Utah.

It's tough to disagree with a thermometer...


When in doubt, do the right thing... The rest of the time, do whatever you think you can get away with !

While I doubt that there is an underground waterway from his aquarium to open water, we still can't confirm his intentions. He may have wanted to feed his Oscars. He may have wanted fresh bait for the next time he went to Yuba. Those who fished it a few weeks later mentioned that the swarms of minnows were gone and probably out of reach for anyone who wanted to catch any more for bait. But he still broke the law, and then lied about it to all of us on this board. Would he be trusted to not put them someplace else? Not by me.

And yes, we would all be fishing a lot differently if the UDWR had not transplanted non-native fish into most of our waters. But that is not hypocracy. It's their job. We live in a society. We vote, and elect officials to office. They appoint people to positions of authority. They (the UDWR) are the ones in charge of the fisheries of this state. We let them decide.


And I'll bet that you fish for them too. If not, I apologize for making that assumption. I just figure that if you are posting on this site that you enjoy fishing.

Fishrmn

Justice can be bitter sweet. I think most of us would like to believe what people tell them. Give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure CP has heard about every story in the book to try to justify illegal activity, which will make him a little more calloused, but for the most part, poeple don't always assume someone is a liar. Heck I work in an ER, and we get armloads of liars, and yes that makes me a little jaded, but hey we are all human. What he did was wrong, and it looks like he'll have to pay the piper, but everyone makes mistakes. Like TD said that if we learn from our mistakes, we are better people. I've not had the chance to meet the slayerace, but hey I wouldn't mind fishing with him. WnB, PBH and MB were right, and I was wrong. I say it's now water under the bridge. I respect all of your opinions, even if we disagree. I think it makes us better in the long run. I hope that anyone that transports fish illegally gets their just dues (situation conditional), but we don't need to nail them to a tree if they change their ways.

Good article. Sounds like Brett Prettyman surfs this site often. Anybody know if he's a "guest" (we'll call it), or if he's a registered user? TubeDude, is that you? J/k! Seriously though, I enjoy that guy's articles and bought his book on fishing Utah, and it's very informative. It covers almost every single body of water in the state (including a lot of tiny places that you wouldn't think would be in there).


Skunk happens when you fish with Mike!

BRING ON THE ICE, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

So everybody with fresh water fish in their aquarium are just as guilty as Slayerace. They could potentially ruin all of our fisheries buy dumping their fertile exotic fish into our fisheries.

And people shouldn't be allowed to have guns because they could potentially kill somebody.

Come on guys he had six fish in an aquarium, what's the big deal.

I'm sure everybody on this board has been guilty at one time or another. I know I have.

I have to admit he was quite foolish for not getting rid of those minnows, after hearing all the bawl babies saying their going to snitch on him.
SELECTIVE HARVEST

No, they are not as guilty as Slayerace. There are provisions in the law that allow you to buy, transport, keep, and raise tropical fish. You cannot own, transport, or possess live non-game fish that are not considered tropicals.

Fishrmn

you guys should really look for some facts before spouting off. I actually talked to the officer right after he went over there and the fact was slayerace didn't know the fish were in the other aquarium. He gave the aquarium that they were originally in to his son and his son was supposed to have cleaned it out and gotten rid of the minnows. Instead he put them in a basement aquarium slayerace uses to grow aquatic plants for the other aquariums and believe me that officer had to look really hard to find any, that tank is full of plants and they are thick, hence the reason slayerace didn't even know the fish were there in the first place. So please put this to rest and give the guy a break, he didn't decieve anybody.
jed

WELL HE SCEWED UP. HE GOT A LESSON. WETHER OR NOT HE LIED? BUT HE STILL OK IN MY BOOK. I KNOW HIS INTENTIONS WERE NOT TRANSPLANTING ONES. I BET HE WAS THINKING HE COULD RAIS HIS BAIT. BUT NONE THE LESS THE STATED GAVE HIM THE PRICE OF HIS LESSON. ITS OVER. I SHOT A DEER FOR A FREIND ONE TIME AND GOT CAUGHT. I DID IT AND PAYED FOR IT. IVE NEVER DONE IT AGAIN, AND SO LERNED A LESSON. HE IS VERY UN LUCKY TO HAVE THE WHOLE STATE SEEING IT IN PRINT. THUS A BIGGER LESSON. KILL THE DAM MINNOWS!!!!!!!!
fishing for a deal on a new car or truck I can hook you up. fishing is life everything else is just details.

Out of curiousity, how do you figure the DWR is illegally dumping. They (& Utah politicians) make the rules. And they have biologists that work for them .
Really they do!
I know some.












I'm with stupid.

You know, I was kind of angry that he lied about the minnow being alive and not having just one like he claimed, but after jed's post about us needing to learn the facts, I guess I was wrong. Leaving it up to someone else who could have just dumped them out in a canal or pond makes him even more of a moron in my book. Good job Jeb, you made him look even more like an idiot. Just don't let us know if he killed anyone and the circumstances behind it as well, you'd be a pretty poor lawyer.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

hey TD you know whats realy funny about all this?

i can run down to the local pet store and get 10 or so pond carp and drive any where in the state i want to go.. with not a word being said to me from anyone..

and them pond carp can live in any lake in the state and infest it in no time!!

now what would be worse fatheads in a lake that could be a good pray fish for the lake.. or carp that would destroy the lake in a matter of years?




Ron


artificial intelligence is no mach for my natural stupidity

He who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at.

You wanna straight answer from ME???

I think we already gots too many carp and way too many FATHEADS. You are really a good straight man, Ron. We oughtta be on TV. Then everybody could turn us off.

Ba Dum Dum.

I gave up trying to put logic to laws a long time ago. But, it is impossible to anticipate every possible situation and exception. The truth is that there are a bunch of "legal" fishies available through aquariums, that can be transported and possessed legally, that constitute a much worse threat to our waters than munchable minnows.

Now, quit hyperventilating about the warm weather and go fishing somewhere.

Just making people think of the double standards here. I think the dwr overall does good work. I have even worked with them in the dedicated hunter program and plan on doing more volunteer work. But they continue to do bucket biology themselves. Think how much farther one would have to go to get gizzard shad if they had not put them in Williard. Do the shad appear to have Williard. Yep! Do we now the long term effects. No! Through canal systems and ditches, could they gizzard shad make it to Utah Lake and compete with the June Sucker. Probably. With the water diversions (tunnels, ditches, canals etc). around the state I could see a lot of the so called bucket biology happening from just a couple a fishes that decided to go for a swim. Take Strawberry for example: Theres a tunnel that goes thru to the Duechense River via Current Creek. The Duchense in turn dumps into the Green that dumps into the Colorado. If you include all the fish in these drainages. Well lets just say nature finds a way. And as Fuzzy pointed out there are alot of fish at the pet store that are dangerous to utah fisheries, they are legal to transport all over the state. Do I think what slayerace did was right no. He lied to all of us and with the uproar on this site it was plain dumb on his part. He should of taken responsiblity at that time and made sure the minnows were all dead. Would I fish with slayerace in the future. Sure. Thats history now. Just was throwing out a different point of view about this subject.

John

Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. -- Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)

And that would be illegal - and unethical. I've read all of this nonsense from the beginning - and stayed quiet. But really, some of you are not coming off very well. I don't know slayer, except from what I have read here, but I don't think he is a bad guy. I think he made a bad decision, lied about it and got caught. End of story. I think the sad part is that MANY of you are not learning from his mistake.

Blaming the current DWR for introducing non-native species is stupid on several levels:

1. They are trained and educated.
2. There is an entire process involved that starts with research, goes before a board, and then ends with research before any new species is introduced anywhere (I've actually been involved in the process several times).
3. A good majority of non-native species were not introduced originally by the DWR; but by bucket biologists of many flavors decades or more ago.
4. The majority of NON-NATIVE species now introduced are STERILE.
5. The largest emphasis is now on re-introduction of NATIVE species WHEREVER possible.

At no other time in the history of the UDWR has their focus been more on restoring native fish while still providing quality and diversity for the angler.

Slayer got what he deserves. And I'll bet he learned from it. How about the rest of us?

You have a good point fuzzyfisher and the DWR is the ones that put the fatheads in there. And the DWR are the ones that has put most of the fish that we fish for now like bass waleye strippers and the others and that was a great thing too (but if you don't like the laws change them) not brake them, like he did that is what is wrong in this case. Not that it was bad or good but it was braking the law as it is...


.

.
Bassrods likes to fish for bass using Mojo lures and Weights, and Parasite Weights.
Practice CPR...Catch, Photograph and Release.
Utah state C&R record 23.5"
Tight lines....

and another funny thing i'm finding with all this is..
i don't know about here in utah but in So cal you can buy fathead minnows in the pet stores as feeders..

there is alredy pond carp in the Sevier river drainage..

and the fun way they got there is a privet pond had them in there and the seagules were picking them up and droping them in near by paleceads res.. from there down to gunnson res on down to the sandpitch to the sevier river..
oh yeah the seagules were droping them in 9 mile as well. nice huh?

my point is not if someone did any thing wrong or not moveing live minnows or not..

my point is there are alot worse things the DWR should be worred about than some minnows that in the long run are not going to devastate a intire lake or water system!!

if it's illegal to to have fatheads in your aquarium why then can you have pond carp in your pond?

seems to me that is much more a thret to all our water systems than fathead minnows would ever be..




Ron


artificial intelligence is no mach for my natural stupidity

He who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at.

Mistakes were made no doubt, and bucket biology definitely is unethical.

But before you call the rest of us stupid, and give the DWR credit for being such geniuses, you should think about this:

1. They have been "trained and educated" through the process of experimentation in our waters, sometimes with disasterous results.
2. Their research and board decisions are'nt always right.
3. A good majority of non-native speices were introduced to our waters long before there even was a DWR.
4. The majority of non-native speices are NOT sterile. The majority of Hybrid speices are sterile and some of those have been major failures. The Brake trout for instance, a cross between a lake trout and brown trout, released into Porcupine, was later discovered to suffer a life of blindness. Talk about playing God.
But the bulk of Rainbow, Brown, and brook trout (all intorduced), and many, if not most of the warmwater speices do reproduce.
5. There is a large emphasis on re-introducing native speices, but when you say wherever possible, Many of those wherever's are into reservoirs... Which are by definition, UN-NATURAL.

In my never to be humble opinion, the DWR needs to focus on making the best out of what we have... Not wasting millions of dollars trying to bring a false sense of "natural restoration". This is the same kind of thinking that leads people to want to tear down Glenn Canyon Dam.

By the way, the one person I have'nt seen a post from in all of this is Slayer himself. I would be interested to hear what HE thinks about all of this.

Was the DWR officer that showed up at his door executing a warrant, or did Slayer give him permission to search his premises ?

I hope that he will post up and let us all know how this thing went down...


When in doubt, do the right thing... The rest of the time, do whatever you think you can get away with !

  

Cmon just give it up. He knows he screwed up and we don't need to make him the poster wipping boy for all of our frustrations with bucket biology. That wasn't his intention and it should be pretty darn clear by now that it wasn't. Like I said he knows he screwed up and his wallet knows so just forget it and move on. Everyone had a chance to voice their opinions we have established that we dissagree with transplanting of non-native species. I know if you screwed up you would get sick of hearing it from 100s of people especially if you already knew you screwed up. In fact you know just like every other red blooded human being it would just piss you off. I wasn't trying to defend what he did wrong. I was just trying to tell a little more of the other side of things. By the way I am sure that his son would not have dumped them in a canal. Lets just all take a big breath, go fishing and then lie about how big the one that got away was,
jed

I don't believe I ever used the word stupid. Feel free to correct me.

1. Well, they were first "trained and educated" for at least six years getting their applicable Master's degree before they were hired to touch a fish. Every single one of them. Kent Summers had to go back and get his after twenty years to keep his job. Then the majority of them spent a few years as researchers before actually getting a job as a biologist.

2. What research is wrong? Based on what criteria? Can you give specifics and do you have research to back that up? I will agree 100% that board decisions are not always in the best interest of you or me.

3. Didn't I say that? I thought I did.

4. I must not have been very clear. The MAJORITY of NEWLY INTRODUCED SPECIES are STERILE. Mostly because they are hybrids. Think of those that have been introduced into waters over the past decade or so that are not natives: tiger musky, wiper, splake, tiger trout. I have been involved in the development of management plans. If a new species is proposed for a water, the first questions asked are about can they control the species (can it move out of it's intended water and will it overpopulate) and disease. Yes, it seemed for a while that FES was a little to fascinated with frankenstein. However, if memory serves me correctly, it was the brownbows and not brake that developed cataracts. The brake eggs did not eye up very well so were very expensive to produce.

5. Correct. However, there is more to it than just being native. Primarily, the state gets federal dollars for native fish. Second, it ensures that the control stays with the state and ESA listing does not come into play.

We have heard what you dislike about the DWR. So what SPECIFICALLY would you like see changed? What waters would you like to see managed differently? What species in those waters? Is this your own selfish (for lack of a better term) desires or what you think would be best for the states angling population as a whole?

Sorry if this seems like a hijacking of the thread. I just feel like we have beat Slayer into the dirt and would like to see some positive dialogue continue.

Thats funny about the pond carp in those lakes. Are they numerous in either of them? if so i wouldnt be supprised to see them wind up in yuba, its just the next stop down the river from 9 mile.




DO NOT CLICK

well this has been going on for about 5 or 6 years now..
so i'm sure they are in yuba allready..
rember 3 years ago when they all but draind 9 mile.. well the DWR got out there can of fix a lake to get rid of them in there.. 9 mile is sepret from the other two lakes so it's alot harder for them to get into there.. but the rest of the drainage has allredy been infested with them..
the drout has been keeping them in check for the last while.. not letting them get down stream but this year there was alot of water going down the sanpitch river..




Ron


artificial intelligence is no mach for my natural stupidity

He who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at.

Hi everyone,

After reading these posts and seeing everyones opinions I thought it would be time to clear a few things up.

I did indeed give my heavily planted tank to my son Kevin. I had taken my oscars to the pet store and was not aware of any other fish in the aquarium. I knew Kevin intended to make the tank a saltwater tank. He came over while I was at work and when the aquarium was nearly drained he found 7 fish. 6 minnows and an upside down catfish I hadn't seen in 2 years. Kevin took the fish out and put them in my downstairs aquarium that was half full, heavily planted, and the glass was covered with algae. He never mentioned to me that he had found any critters. I had assumed that the oscars had devoured the minnows. I was wrong...

Now a few things about the article in the Trib. It was not mentioned that I had seen his truck outside and still answered the door, or that I invited him into my home without a warrant. Or that I let him look in my downstairs aquarium without a warrant. If I had simply not answered the door, or invited him in, or let him check out my second aquarium. I could have easily flushed the fish if I knew they were there. Believe it or not I didn't know they were there.
It also didn't mention the fact that I invited him into my garage when he was trying to leave, to show him the contents of my freezer. I showed him 20+ bags of frozen fatheads, 20+ bags of Strawberry Res. chubs and r.s. shiners, and 30+ bags of frozen baby white bass. He said it was obvious that there was no harm intended. There wasn't... I didn't lie to anyone... If was hiding something, I didn't have to answer the door... Jed Burton was with me when we caught the minnows, he was there helping me drain the water out of my minnow bucket at Yuba, and when I put the bucket in a cooler on ice. He was there when the park Ranger checked the bucket. My intentions were witnessed...

Am I ashamed? No... A little angry? yes...I didn't do anything wrong intentionally. My only intention was to photograph a minnow, so that a group of "friends" could collectively identify it. I shouldn't have done "it".
"It" being, assuming that I was only among friends. There are fisherman on this site that try to make this a positive, fisherman friendly site. And there are those that lurk behind the seens picking out morsels of info, and not adding anything positive to our group. They just wait to pounce on someone when the occasion arises.
Since this is a fishing site, I guess I shouldn't be surprised when we run into a few leeches. I hope these leeches have had fun at my expense.
I meet with a judge in his office tomorrow to give him my side of the story. With any luck I may be reimbursed the fine I have already paid. If not, it was money well spent for all of us to see who the contributors are, vs. who the leeches are. Its also been some great reading!

Slayerace

Glad to see your still around and can take it like a man. Too bad you were the one who had to be made an example out of. Let us know how it goes tomorrow.
Bigcat

You are a class act man, most anybody else would have taken the low road, and dissapeared off the face of the BFT. good to see you still around




DO NOT CLICK

Way to step up to the plate! Most people would just never show themselves here again, but I think it takes a man to take the heat and show up again.



Got an XBox??? Check out the new BFT XBox Fishing Games board!!!
XBox Fishing Games

Slayerace, I believe you and its an unfortunate situation you have been through. I also think you're a stand up individual for coming forward. Yes, it would of been a lot easier and painless to be "invisible" for a while.

This is not over yet. Be prepared for the comments yet to come. You are correct that there are those that will not let this die nor will never believe you. I hope you are prepared for that.

But most of all, welcome back.

Well done. Now, can we go fishing? I'm thinking the harbors on Utah Lake are about ready to kick out some fishies. I heard tell...

hey Slayerace any one that hunts minnows for bait knows that getting them to the freezer fast is best.. and yes i have used fatheads to feed my fish with as well..

and from seeing what you had in your freezer your good at catching some bait.. hope that some time we can get together and traid srecret's.. and i'll show you the ues of dry ice so you wont have to worry about them being alive by the time you get home.. lol




Ron


artificial intelligence is no mach for my natural stupidity

He who laughs at himself never runs out of things to laugh at.

I have to hand it to ya S/R. Kudo's!!
No one is perfect no matter how much they try and convince others their are. These same folk had choose to try and get their kicks by belittling you also screw up in life, I have to wonder if they, like you, have the brass to air their mistakes for all the world to see.
S/R feel welcome to wander over and say hello and share the cap or open water with this old kid anytime.

We'll,,,

GitR Dun!

Don,, the old IceSkrat.

Never assume a great day fishing is a great day catching...

yeah...I have to hand it to you and the rest of those on this site who still don't think you didn't do anything wrong...you broke the freaking law. And, worse yet, you don't think you did anything wrong! I am just glad your son Kevin didn't dump them somewhere they could do some real harm. This is unbelievable...you not only had minnows in your aquarium but you also had a catfish...it is obvious that you have also broke the law before. My bet is that you will do it again. Your only intention was to photograph a LIVE minnow which you purposely kept alive in an aquarium that you also had other LIVE minnows living in. You can call me a leech all you want, but the truth is you are a threat to our fisheries and I despise your actions. You are obviously one of those people who believe that rules and laws do not apply to you.

W&B - I think he got his upside down catfish from a pet store.

Props to slayer for not disappearing. However, I too take exception to the "I did nothing wrong" statement. Those fish did not open up a ziplock bag, then the freezer, flop across the floor, and hop into an aquarium by themselves.

I don't believe that your intent was to "plant" them anywhere other than your aquarium; but what you did was illegal and thus wrong.

 This is unbelievable...you not only had minnows in your aquarium but you also had a catfish...





Give it a rest wormandbobber.

It was an upside down catfish, Perfectly legal. They sell them at almost every pet store in the state.

Fishrmn

An upside down catfish is an aquarimum fish likely to be found at most any petstore




DO NOT CLICK

That's exactly the mentality that we, as fishermen, should NOT take. We should remember this situation. We NEED to remember this, and learn from it. Intentions are not what the situation was about. Potential is a much bigger danger.

Someone needed to be made an example of. It's extremely nice to now the the UDWR is not sitting back and allowing these situations to happen. It's nice to know that they are taking an aggressive attitude towards the illegal transportation of live fish.

I certainly hope that this sitation NEVER happens again. But, are any of us so naive to think that it won't? I am not. But, I can at least rest assured that the UDWR is out there trying to protect a sport and a resource that I love dearly.

For clarification: Intentions are why he wasn't given a much harsher felony citation. Laws are not enforced based on intentions alone. At some point, we need to be held responsible for our actions.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

don't mistake my intentions and that is taking the quote out of context. Of course we shouldn't forget what happened as far as the act goes. Duh, learn from it, but berating and belittleing slayerace over it isnt going to get anything done. When I said forget it, I meant leave him alone about it. He knows and that is as far as that should go. Just like I said in a previous post if you screwed up on anything and knew it, someone continually nagging you about it just makes you mad and doesn't accomplish anything. You know as well as I do everyone including you, makes mistakes. We have all learned the lesson on this one. Give the people on this board a lot more credit than it appears you do. They know the law and noone condones breaking it. The only argument anyone on here has had, is that we don't have to belittle someone to get our point across. We can leave them as just that, very good points and not personal insults,
jed

Some of us here believe a guy can do something wrong, pay the penalty of the wrong doing and become a better and more educated person because of it so we tend to give someone a second chance to get it right and don't cast them into eternal damnation like some here seem to want.

The example you so dearly want HAS been made. Give it a rest will you? We all know the message. There is no need to twist everyone's words so you can keep pounding on this subject. You, W&B, and whom ever else can depise the guy all you want, just do it quitely, ok?

I never said I despised the guy...I said I despise his actions and will continue to despise the actions of people who break the law and will do it loudly. I can't believe that he still believes he has done nothing wrong as his own words have suggested. I, too, believe that some people can do something wrong, pay the penalty, and become a better person because of it...but, has he? His own remarks clearly show that he believes he has done nothing wrong...I disagree. Has he learned his lesson? Or, does he simply not post the pictures the next time he moves live fish?

In W&B's words:

"I can't believe that he still believes he has done nothing wrong as his own words have suggested" and "His own remarks clearly show that he believes he has done nothing wrong"

This is from the same paragraph in your last post. That's what everyone is tired of, especially me. This is the meaning of beating a dead horse. I know that leeches don't have eyes, so have someone read the paragraph that I wrote last night. here it is...

I didn't do anything wrong intentionally.


I admitted on this forum and to the DWR that I transported live fish ACCIDENTLY. I admitted that there were still live minnows in my aquarium, that my son put there. I have posted a picture of ONE minnow. I have stated that I had no bad intentions several times. I have a witness, I have evidence in my freezer that shows I freeze minnows for bait. I am a law abiding citizen that made a mistake and admitted it on this forum, to a DWR officer and today in court to a judge. Everyone has believed me but you and a few others. Everyone else has seen evidence of my intentions or knows me personally.

I hope that the next time you accidentally break the law, ie; Speeding, rolling through a stop sign, changing lanes w/o signalling etc. That you don't have a judge try to mete out the justice that you wish on me. Or have it published in a major newspaper. There was never a chance of those minnows ending up alive in another fishery whether you believe it or not. And I along with the majority of this forum could care less if you believe me. However next time you accidentally commit a moving violation, think about the consequences that could have on innocent families. That far outweighs any consequences that could happen from any fish in anyones aquarium.

Now with my admission of guilt, appearance in court, paying a fine,
and unjustly being portrayed as a criminal, and enemy to the state fisheries, privately and in the newspapers. Your point has been made, over and over and over again...Will you please get off your soapbox and go play in somebody elses playground, hopefully where you are welcome and someone likes you. I'm sure there are other leeches out there that would welcome you. Maybe Mike Bolton?

Slayerace

You didn't do anything wrong intentionally? Now that is a joke! You didn't intentionally place those fish in an aquarium and intentionally keep them alive? Now you are just lying again! You did intentionally break the law. The bad thing is that you are still fighting this fact. If you had no intention of breaking the law, why were the fish still alive when the CO arrived at your house?

And you call me a leech? The leech has long been used in medicine, although today its use is mainly limited to limb reattachment procedures instead of the wide-ranging medical use of the past. Leeches were once so commonly used that doctors were popularly called leeches. In Old High German, lÇhhi (etymon of leech) means "physician". My hopes is that the publicity and continued discussion of this topic will be of medicinal value to the threat posed by people who transport live fish...keep calling me a leech and i will keep "doctoring" your illegal actions.

Best example I have ever seen of "obsessive-compulsive" behavior.

Give it a rest.

BLM -- quite getting personal. Where did I ever mention despise?

You guys constantly blame me (and now W2U) for dragging these things out. Here's a suggestion:

If you want it to end, quit responding....

As long as someone (you, slayer, tuberdude, mstuberdude, or Tawanda included) keeps talking, I'm enjoying the discussion. If you don't like it, then don't participate. If no one participates, it'll die on it's own.




My intentions are not to beat up on Slayer. I'm pretty sure he's learned his lesson (or at least I hope so....). My intentions are simply to make anyone who might possibly make the same mistake aware of the ramifications. Our fisheries are too important to be screwed up by intentional, or unintentional illegal fish introductions.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

Agreed, slayerace, there ARE too many leeches on this board (in more ways than one). While even if what you did was out of ignorance (i.e. not actually knowing that the minnows where there in your tank), it was still wrong, and you suffered the consequences. There's always TWO sides to every story, and it's nice to finally get yours. Good luck with the judge. It's too bad Prettyman is just another journalist and conveniently left out some important facts just to make his story sound that much more sensational to sell a few more papers.

Hope you get this little "incident" behind you and get out fishing soon. I'm sure you've learned plenty from this and you've already paid a big price from it. Hope you get out fishing soon!


Skunk happens when you fish with Mike!

BRING ON THE ICE, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice, W&B! Got any FISHING REPORTS to share with us yet? We're still waiting!


Skunk happens when you fish with Mike!

BRING ON THE ICE, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

still waiting...why? I have posted numerous reports on this site. go back and check.

In fact, i ice fished on the Boulder Mountain (a legal lake) on friday and used minnows...but won't report on where. we caught a total of 19 fish with the biggest going around 23-24 inches.

But, because this is called the "General Discussion" forum, I choose mostly just to discuss fishing related issues.

will this post ever freckin die !!!!!!!!!!! Please let it freckin die It is getting so stupid and redundent. This is not a pissing contest board.



Remember Only you can prevent the Geoff skunk!!!
Bad Juju Only comes from Geoff!!!
Wise man once said, Don't go fish with Geoff!
Just say no to Geoff




When religion Ruled the world. History calls that the dark ages. Will someone Please turn on the lights!!!!

Predator and BLM I applaud your efforts, but I have to wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to take the bad apples out of the barrel before the rest rot. They've been removed before but like the Yuba minnows seem to unlock the zip lock bag, open the freezer and flip flop their way back into the aquarium. I have a hard time thinking any knowledge they contribute is worth the problems they also create.

I don't think some of the "leech" crowd as they have been called will let this thing die until they see Slayerace hanging from the nearest tree.

"There are those fish that operate within the bounds of the law and those that operate outside of it. These fish are Carp. For Carp the law is inadequate and they must be punished!!!" - The Carp Punisher

This will be my last post on this subject... I promise...

I am glad that W&B considers himself a physician. Dr. Kevorkian did too... However the leeches I have referred to are more often found on the under bellies of fish, not in an operating room.. They silently and secretly suck their victims blood. Those particular leeches cause more harm than good, and nobody likes them.

Ps. For all those interested, the judge believed me too. And in the interest of "justice" as he put it, reduced my fine substantially. So all of you who donated to my fine will be getting a refund...
But for all those concerned, I did learn my lesson and will not transport ANY live fish again. We should all make sure that no crayfish, catfish or frozen perchies make it into our coolers until they are legally dead...And please, please, be sure to remove and discard all non-medicinal leeches found in our fisheries...

Slayerace

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I am glad to hear you had your day in court. I am also glad you were given the chance to explain your side of the story. Sounds like you were treated with justice.



Remember Only you can prevent the Geoff skunk!!!
Bad Juju Only comes from Geoff!!!
Wise man once said, Don't go fish with Geoff!
Just say no to Geoff




When religion Ruled the world. History calls that the dark ages. Will someone Please turn on the lights!!!!

"They silently and secretly suck their victims blood. Those particular leeches cause more harm than good, and nobody likes them."

Amen to that...all those blood-sucking-live-fish-transplanting-law- breaking-fishery-threatening-liars definitely cause much more harm than good...and nobody likes them.

Yeah...I bet the judge reduced your fine...kind of like the lie you put out there like when you called the DWR and they were aware of the situation and weren't going to do anything about the problem? Kind of like the lie that said that you had only one live fish and you promptly froze it? How many other lies are you going to throw around?

By the way, you should be glad the DWR didn't strap you with a fine for illegally growing aquatic vegetation in your aquarium as well...which is also breaking the law. do you know anything about eurasion milfoil?

Dude growing live plants is not against the law. Get a clue I have alot of fish tanks at work and at home with live plants by the way. I also bought them at a pet store like petsmart, marks ark to name a few. Just because one plant is not legal to have doesn't make them all against the law. Thats like says all tropical fish are against the law due to the fact it is against the law to have live game fish. Or to keep a cuttthroat at 20 inches even thou it came from scolfeild.
Grow up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did I say get a life yet!!



Remember Only you can prevent the Geoff skunk!!!
Bad Juju Only comes from Geoff!!!
Wise man once said, Don't go fish with Geoff!
Just say no to Geoff




When religion Ruled the world. History calls that the dark ages. Will someone Please turn on the lights!!!!

Wormandbobber,
I've agreed with you on most of this entire topic. I agree that slayerace decieved the board, and even the judge. He intentionally put those live minnows in his aquarium. Even if he forgot to keep track of them, he knew they were alive when he put them in. If he thought that he had taken care of the problem by killing them, he still knowingly kept them alive for a time.

But as pointed out by others, you can go into almost any pet shop and buy upside down catfish. You can also buy several varieties of aquatic vegetation. You can buy several plants at local nuseries that will grow in backyard ponds. I admire your passion for keeping our fisheries safe from illegal transplants, but maybe you ought to go into a local PetsMart and look around. You'll see lots of plants that will grow in aquariums that won't grow in our local waters.

I'm not trying to change your mind about slayerace, but it is time to give it a rest.

And to the moderators;
Can we eliminate the posts that include name calling?

Fishrmn

bla bla bla SHUT UP AND GO FISH THIS IS SICKINING GROWN MEN ACTING LIKE LITTLE GIRL'S,WHO CARE'S IT'S OVER...........

Why don't you girls go fishing or you are going to give my fish bowl of mystic minnows a hart-a-tack and they won't be able to predict.....


.

.
Bassrods likes to fish for bass using Mojo lures and Weights, and Parasite Weights.
Practice CPR...Catch, Photograph and Release.
Utah state C&R record 23.5"
Tight lines....

BLM, you are sooooo lucky!



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All in a day's play on BFT, James. Can you feel the love?

Then could you just ban Bob the Worm again? The worm has been nothing but truble since it signed on, throw it out.

Just as long as you don't remember were the "move" button is!

This Ad by Google was at the top of this thread.
http://www.septal.com/...GD54ECFQ4TSwod3DzBng

Funny huh!



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Stu, you can forget about a career in sales. The point was made, most folks on this board agreed with DWR's actions, and SlayerRace went before the judge. Hell, there was even a thread about how to properly kill baitfish.

Then you come along and effectively gelled these guys into a frenzy. I bet someone, somewhere is selling "Free Slayer" T-shirts. Nice way to give the "other side" reason to despise the DWR, and those that try to do the right thing. I wouldnt surprise me if some rogue board reader (no one registered, of course...) transplant some perch out of spite.

Even though you disclaim that you represent the DWR, most average folks who know your kin take your posts, attitude, and demeanor as de-facto DWR. You need to learn how to shut your dog-gone trap.

Click Here

i just wanted to let you know I am laughing very hard right now after listening to that,
jed

I have often wondered what would be the cause of WWIII.... and I never thought it would be a couple of minnows!

-Loren

"I threw everything in my tackle box at 'em. After that didn't work, I threw my tackle box at 'em."

RipNLips, That was way too funny!!!



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I couldn't have said it better myself.

You guys keep asking for this to be over, yet you all continue to post. If you really wanted it over, you'd all quit responding, and asking for more responses.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

Am I hearing this right, all this comotion is being caused by employees of the DWR?



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Of course it was, it was the DWR that heard about it, acted on it and made an example of it. Point of the matter is, don't mess with the DWR if you are a sportsman, that's their job.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

No, you heard wrong. W&B is an overly passionate little brother and son of a couple of fine DWR biologists. A nice young buck, but as with other impetuous types during the rut, does'nt realize when he's one the war and keeps his weapon on Full Auto.

No the DWR didnt cause any of this, Slayer Race did, and he was gracious enough to allow us all to learn and do better in the future. C'mon James you know better.

No, No , No the comotion was caused when somebody mentioned Ice on Mantua. Now my son wants to fish there this weekend. The comotion involves getting all ice fishing gear ready. But revenge will be sweet. My plan it to march the 6 yr old into hooked and let him grill the comotion causer as to how and where to catch them perchies and slabs we were getting this summer.

My revenge will be to force at least four of you in my car to go fish Schofield and on the way up listen to Michael Bolton for two hours straight.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

Wow Michael Bolton music or Country music.... which is worse????? Better not ask me to ride up this could easily be the seed of a murder suicide!!!

"There are those fish that operate within the bounds of the law and those that operate outside of it. These fish are Carp. For Carp the law is inadequate and they must be punished!!!" - The Carp Punisher

Come on, I can see the Kenny G/MichaelBolton music causing problems but country???? Really, were you born in a barn?? Okay, maybe not.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

hey if you dont like country music that fine ,thats your choice,but dont insult those of us that do,but implying we were born in a barn.I could tell you what i think of micheal bolton the musican ,but i respect your choice,with out insult.










____________________________________________________

"If you take away the right to fail, you remove the ability to succeed."

you are either kidding or are maybe the slowest person ever. Have your friends at work explain it to you.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.

I feel that we really need to thank phb and wormandbobber. They have taken the jobs of being judge, jury, and executioner in their own hands, Hell look at all the law inforcement, lawers, and judges as well as juriors that are do not need any more. We can now use all the money that we will save and buy trout to plant in every drop of water in the state. And we all thought u 2 were evil.

Those two probably know more about fishing and conservation than most will ever learn. Of course people working for the state will not turn a blind eye to someone admitting he kept and transported fish into an aquarium at home. If you break the law and don't want to get in trouble, please don't post it on a forum, word gets around quick.
inspirational lyrics and melodious sonnets can save the world one person at a time-- Michael Bolton.