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Yuba
I have some questions about Yuba. I have been down there around 7 times and only caught 1 pike. I was wondering how everyone else done down there and is it just slow fishing down there? Or are there not many pike left in there? Just was getting a little frustrated with it. Thanks for any help.👍😀🐟
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Re: [Lovetofish1965] Yuba In reply to
Usually slow. A friend of mine that is a fish biologist in Fountain Green Hatchery said they netted several fish to acquire eggs. The largest was 46".
Ice_sled
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Re: [ice_sled] Yuba In reply to
Do you know if they plant pike in Yuba anymore? Or doesn't the dnr want to because of the Utah lake thing. Do you know if they have any plans for Yuba. Seems like there are just a lot of carp down there. The first time I fished Yuba was last year. It seem like a few years ago the pike fishing was a lot better.
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Re: [Lovetofish1965] Yuba In reply to
DWR has never planted pike in Yuba. But they have been in there for decades, due to a washout of Redmond or some ponds to the south that put them in the Sevier River.

During the big drought that ended in 2005, Yuba got down to a trickle down the middle. A few pike and a lot of carp survived upstream in holes in the Sevier River. When the lake refilled DWR planted rainbows and some perch to help reestablish a fishery. The pike population exploded. Ditto for the carp. Within a very few years there was little besides pike and carp. The pike grew fast and big on the few remaining trout and perch. The carp kept getting new plantings each year from Gunnison being drained.

About 7 or 8 years ago...when the pike population was amazing...DWR panicked and put a 20 fish limit on them...encouraging people to clean them out. It worked. Within a couple of years the numbers were way down. But there always remain a few of the big ones to keep eating the few young ones that hatch each year. Since there is little for them to eat except carp and their own young their population is pretty low. Not worth special trips from anywhere more than an hour away.

In an effort to reestablish the perch DWR planted about 50,000 perch last year...from Fish Lake. The pike appreciated it and quickly cleaned them up. They are eagerly awaiting another feeding.

Utah Lake already has a growing population of pike. Regulations and management programs for Yuba have little to do with Utah Lake.

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Re: [Lovetofish1965] Yuba In reply to
They plan on doing a rotenone treatment either this fall or next fall, so catch em while you can!
Keep fishing, never stop.
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Re: [Lovetofish1965] Yuba In reply to
 

https://youtu.be/AiJBRp9NapY


Location: Lake Katchabigun

Once you know everything about anything its what you learn afterwards that counts.

Skunked, we never get skunked its the fish getting skunked as they just kept missing our lures.
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Re: [Kype_King] Yuba In reply to
Is the primary intent to get rid of pike, carp or both? Is there an article or other reference for this?
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Re: [k2muskie] Yuba In reply to
k2muskie wrote:

https://youtu.be/AiJBRp9NapY[/quote]

Thanks for posting the video.
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Re: [cje04] Yuba In reply to
Really cool video. I'll have to head back down and give it another try after the skunk this past weekend.
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Re: [cje04] Yuba In reply to
cje04 wrote:
Is the primary intent to get rid of pike, carp or both? Is there an article or other reference for this?

Yes.

Yuba has been a difficult fishery for the State to manage. Water fluctuations and lack of habitat make it a real challenge. The Sevier River, and the plethora of fish that come from that river complicate things -- the "rough" fish (carp, suckers, etc.) are difficult to control and present challenges in making a trout fishery. Other species (walleye, pike) take turns moving to the "top" and typically experience population booms followed by crashes. Perch lack the habitat necessary to provide a stable population. Add all of those together, and you have Yuba: a wildly popular fishery with a history of ups and downs. It's a place that provides people with a chance at a unique trophy fish (currently pike), but frustrates most because of the lack of consistent productivity.

Yuba is scheduled to be treated to give the lake another "restart". That's a good thing. In nearly all cases, after a rotenone treatment fisheries experience a boom with fast fish growth with results in "big" fish. At the same time, Redmond will also be treated to remove the many of the same species already listed for Yuba (ie: carp, pike).

While many will be disappointed with the treatment of Yuba, it is a good thing. These fisheries rebound quickly, and are usually better (for a time) after treatments. I'm sure we can get someone to dig up a management plan on Yuba to give us some details on the plan for future management. Hopefully we can get something sterile (sterile pike, sterile walleye, etc.) going in there ahead of the rough fish and get established in an effort to keep the rough fish numbers down.

Crossing fingers.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [PBH] Yuba In reply to
A question I have is what about those who enjoy good pike fishing? Being a good thing is certainly relative to what folks consider "good". It seems there are far more waters in Utah managed toward trout than any other species. I guess my point is why are pike discussed in the same sentence as carp as being something awful. Pike are one of the greatest freshwater trophy fish in the U.S. Furthermore the table fair is consistent with that of walleye making this fish exciting and rewarding.

Although the circumstances are much different. I cannot help but think the catch and kill regulation on pike at Utah Lake is set to accomplish similar results as Yuba. I understand the reasoning deals with the June Sucker. However, seeing this attack on pike and often hearing discussions of pike and carp in the same sentence makes me cringe to the point where I wonder how much this is simply what the DWR wants to do rather than what fisherman/women really want. IMO stocking fish such as trout in a high concentration of pike and walleye would prove to be a bad move depending on size of water, depth, etc...on the same token attempting to eradicate pike because "its a good thing" leaves some to wonder whether this state is being managed using a narrow scope.

I'll follow this by saying I am not necessarily assuming some, none, or all of this is happening. As an angler who grew up in Michigan I target walleye, pike, perch, bass, and panfish. Having great pike waters is something I miss and hate to see go away.

It would be interesting to see a vote or poll from anglers on how they feel about the pike in Yuba...what I can say is everytime I visit Yuba more and more anglers are fishing, taking that long drive, and spending cash...it certainly is not because of carp or trout.



Lund Pro V 2025/225 Optimax/Bigfoot Kicker/101lb Ipilot/HDS-9 Touch/HDS-10 Combo...Fish On!
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Re: [dwayneb] Yuba In reply to
Great post and observations!!

Two reason I travel that far to fish, pike and walleye, big incidental perch another reason and still present.

Walleye and perch populations are going up currently at yuba, seen it personally. Good catches of both being reported by locals.

Trophy pike are still fairly common if they can be caught. Gotten more difficult to catch the last two years since the limit was increased to 20 pike a day, lol!

The video showing 100 big fat pike being removed by the DNR says alot as to how they are doing in yuba.

Vote here is to leave the reservoir alone. Will recover nicely with the increased flows this year. FWIW
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Re: [dwayneb] Yuba In reply to
I don't think it has anything to do with a preference for trout vs. bass vs. walleye vs. perch vs. pike vs. blue gill.

What it does have to do with is control. How do you control a population of pike vs. perch vs. walleye?

if you can control the population, then I honestly believe the DWR would attempt to manage that population. Unfortunately history has shown that in Utah those specific populations have been uncontrollable.

Maybe at some point sterile pike, walleye will be a viable option.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [ice_sled] Yuba In reply to
We were on yuba the day that they cought the big northern . They came by our boat and showed us the fish . . Mighty impressive . We talked to the DWR guys three times during the day and you could not have asked for a more congenital group of people anywhere . They were willing to talk and answer any and all questions . I really appreciated the time they were willing to spend . Good job DWR.HappyHappyHappy
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Re: [dwayneb] Yuba In reply to
Couldn't agree more. Utah DNR is seeing this diversity for Anglers.

Agree with PBH a sterile apex critter is required including a froage base. It will take time utmost is water draw down for culinary and irrigation.

TD is also spot on. No NP from Yuba were under 35". You see by video what was caught. Yes 1 Catfish and 1 Walleye Not on video were caught when I was there. 2 nets we pulled out only had small IMO Crap.

IMO Yuba is going to crash the DNR recognizes this and plans take time.


Location: Lake Katchabigun

Once you know everything about anything its what you learn afterwards that counts.

Skunked, we never get skunked its the fish getting skunked as they just kept missing our lures.
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Re: [PBH] Yuba In reply to
"What it does have to do with is control. How do you control a population of pike vs. perch vs. walleye?"

To even think that Yuba is "controllable" is merely a dream. Every time DWR has made an effort to add fish...or manage what was already in there...Mother Nature has come along and crashed the party anyway. As I have said A LOT...you can't manage the unmanageable.

But when there are good numbers of a desirable species (not chubs), leave it alone.

I have fished Yuba since the 1970s and have laughed through the good times and cried through the bad. Seems to be about a 10 year thing. But now that there is likely to be more water and more fish NATURALLY, why kill it off and plant hatchery pets?

Yuba is what it is. Be glad when it produces fish and just wait it out through the cycles. Even if DWR succeeds in building a population of other species they will not fare any better than what is in there already.

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Re: [PBH] Yuba In reply to
I hear you and agree....a couple of thoughts...what's to stop this from happening again? Not much so many fish upstream spawning this will eventually happen again so why not go with the flow. Let the Pike and walleye be....survival of the fittest...you can manage a body of water so much until management kills it...sometimes you leave them to run their natural course....



Lund Pro V 2025/225 Optimax/Bigfoot Kicker/101lb Ipilot/HDS-9 Touch/HDS-10 Combo...Fish On!
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Re: [dwayneb] Yuba In reply to
TubeDude wrote:

To even think that Yuba is "controllable" is merely a dream. Every time DWR has made an effort to add fish...or manage what was already in there...Mother Nature has come along and crashed the party anyway. As I have said A LOT...you can't manage the unmanageable.

dwayneb wrote:
I hear you and agree....a couple of thoughts...what's to stop this from happening again? Not much so many fish upstream spawning this will eventually happen again so why not go with the flow. Let the Pike and walleye be....survival of the fittest...you can manage a body of water so much until management kills it...sometimes you leave them to run their natural course....

What you guys fail to see is that rotenone treatments are a way to manage populations.

Look at Scofield right now. That's a perfect example. If you "leave them to run their natural course" you will end up with a fishery that nobody fishes. It would be absolutely worthless -- just like Scofield today.

TD says it is unmanageable -- but you have to think different. You have two scenarios:

A. Leave it be. End up with a fishery that is stuck in a crash cycle more years than boom cycles. Over a 20 year period, you might end up with 4 good years.

B. Have rotenone treatment every 10 years. Over a 20 year period you'd have bad fishing for 4 years.

So, take 4 good years vs. 16 good years. Which would you prefer???



without rotenone, the fishery sits in misery year, after year, after year. With rotenone you get to hit the "reset" button every 10 years, sacrifice 2, and enjoy the other 8 years of "fast growth rate" fishing!


You guys look at rotenone as a "failure" option -- but it is exactly the opposite. Rotenone is a reset button for great fishing for a period of time.


TD is correct -- Yuba populations are unmanageable, if left to mother nature.



One other thing: Mother Nature does not "balance". Rather, she exploits. She exploits an advantage. Once that advantage is grasped by a species, that species continues to exploit that advantage to the demise of themselves. That's a boom and bust. That is not balance.

Rotenone that sucker and reap the rewards of fast fish growth on the rebound!



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [PBH] Yuba In reply to
I remain of the opinion any money spent trying to "manage" Yuba is money wasted given that the lake may (and seems to) almost completely disappear leaving only super ruggedized fish (like Carp) in an oxgen-staved, low food environment.

Poision will kill may kill unwanted fish (at a very high price tag).

But the environment must provide an ecosystem for desired fish.

Yuba, it is resolved, cannot be relied upon to provide such an environment for more than a few years at a time.

Ergo, "managing" Yuba is a waste of money in my view.

Give a man a fish and he's fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend his life squinting at invisible thread.
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Re: [MasterDaad] Yuba In reply to
wow. Talk about a rock and a hard place!


Anglers frequently complain that the DWR "does nothing" to manage fisheries.

When the DWR "does something" anglers complain that they should do nothing.



There was a discussion the other day on Scofield that cited reference stating that the economic gain from using rotenone was higher than not using rotenone. If that is the case, then "doing nothing" would lose money and "doing something" (ie: rotenone) would save money.


Ask the concessionaires surrounding Panguitch Lake if using rotenone was a waste of money or not.



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [MasterDaad] Yuba In reply to
MasterDaad wrote:
I remain of the opinion any money spent trying to "manage" Yuba is money wasted
...
Poision will kill may kill unwanted fish (at a very high price tag).
...
Ergo, "managing" Yuba is a waste of money in my view.


American Fisheries Society, the world's oldest and largest organization dedicated to strengthening the fisheries profession, advancing fisheries sciences, and conserving fisheries resources, thinks opposite of the above statements:

https://www.fws.gov/...rout/rotenonebro.pdf

American Fisheries Society wrote:
Q. Why is rotenone treatment
cost effective?
A. It has been estimated that for
each dollar spent on rotenone
and stocked trout, anglers gained
from $32 to $105 worth of fishing.
On trout lakes that were
stocked but not treated, the gain
from fish stocking alone was
only $10 to $15.



If your concern is "wasting money", then how can the DWR, or anglers, not consider rotenone as a management tool for lakes like Yuba??



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [PBH] Yuba In reply to
PBH,

You are great at parsing opinions and responding to the part of a post you want and ignoring the bigger picture.

There's more to the forest than the little tree you want to discuss here.

Thanks for the link to the glowing report about poisoning prepared by the Fish Chemicals Subcommittee which did nothing to address the specific difficulties of Yuba.

Kill all the bad fish you want in Yuba and in dry years you'll have an empty mud puddle instead of a carp infested mud puddle.

Anglers don't care about either of those.

Since you seem completely unwilling to address the habitat part of the equation, I see no reason to alter my opinion Yuba is a waste of time and money to manage.

By the way, Scofield has the same problem for the last several years. It's been hovering near 30% full with almost no flooded vegetation areas to provide good food sources to sport fish and low oxygen levels in the winters. Its essentially been a mud puddle breeding ground for Chubs.

We'll see what happens this year when it actually gets some water.

Scofield, however, is a place I would support a treatment because it has a much better track record as a habitat for sport fish.

Give a man a fish and he's fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend his life squinting at invisible thread.
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Re: [PBH] Yuba In reply to
PBH wrote:
American Fisheries Society, the world's oldest and largest organization dedicated to strengthening the fisheries profession, advancing fisheries sciences, and conserving fisheries resources, thinks opposite of the above statements:

https://www.fws.gov/...rout/rotenonebro.pdf

American Fisheries Society wrote:

Q. Why is rotenone treatment
cost effective?
A. It has been estimated that for
each dollar spent on rotenone
and stocked trout, anglers gained
from $32 to $105 worth of fishing.
On trout lakes that were
stocked but not treated, the gain
from fish stocking alone was
only $10 to $15.


In case you have not discerned what the issue is, with Yubaites...it is not trout. We have too many trout ponds as it is and Yuba has never worked for trout.

Right now, Yuba has trophy class pike fishing. And rotenone would forever destroy it. Leave the pike to fight with the carp and whatever walleyes and perch still remain. They might all have a fighting chance in the coming high water year.

Comparing Yuba to Scofield is not a good comparison. Scofield has always been a trout lake. One that goes through its own cycles. But when it fails all you gotta do is put more hatchery pets in it.

Leave Yuba alone and let it regulate itself according to the laws of natural selection...survival of the fittest (and toothiest).

I find it laughable that DWR has done nothing during the past few years that Scofield has been in the dumper...but now that Yuba appears to have a chance to enter a new up cycle they want to kill it.




If your concern is "wasting money", then how can the DWR, or anglers, not consider rotenone as a management tool for lakes like Yuba??
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Re: [MasterDaad] Yuba In reply to
I don't ignore the habitat. I fully understand that Yuba has no habitat, and has frequent water issues.

What I don't get is how you guys can sit here and ask the DWR to do nothing. How long will that last? How long before the boo-birds come out complaining that the DWR is doing nothing? Isn't that what we've already heard for the last 10 years with Yuba? How will doing more nothing help?



I couldn't help it. It just popped in there.
Dr. Raymond Stantz

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Re: [TubeDude] Yuba In reply to
The only comparison point between Scofield and Yuba is the recent water difficulties with Scofield (which is THE issue with trying to manage Yuba).

DWR funded a study of Scofield with USU a few years ago. It concluded a Cutt/Tiger planting program coupled with a slot limit should control the chub problem.

Unfortunately Mother Nature decided not to feed Scofield much water over the past several years (2011 is the last time Scofield was above 50% capacity) so those new planter Cutts and Tigers haven't enough food to grow into the Chub eating Monsters like the on in my Avatar (Scofield Nov 2014).

The persistent low water caused a host of other issues up there (see Algae Bloom last year as an example).

The comparison point with Yuba is about the critical role of Mother Nature in any management plan.

A key difference is Scofield has a much better historical track record of maintaining a sustainable flood/draw down cycle to support a great trout fishery.

I agree a good strategy for Yuba is to let the carp and Pike fight it out in whatever environment the Yuba water owners decide to leave in the lake for them.

I guarantee no one is sadder about the crash of Scofield than me. Just look at my fishing reports from 2011-2014 from up there on the board -- I very much miss those days.

However, I know there is a scientifically-backed plan for Scofield. Work has been done to get it back in balance. The plan hasn't been effective so far.

And a very good possibility is the lack of water, not improper management.

One other difference: DWR could poison Scofield and it would provide a good habitat from day one and be nearly guaranteed to be a good Trout fishery in a couple years.

With hindsight about the water limitations, it's easy to argue poisoning Scofield two years ago would have been a better choice.

Give a man a fish and he's fed for a day. Teach a man to fish and he'll spend his life squinting at invisible thread.
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