06-19-2008, 11:55 AM
[cool][#0000ff]Apples and oranges. Gotta be confusing for a newbie.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The outer cover of the H3 is HARD PVC...to help protect the cover from scrapes and punctures, and is easier to keep clean. The air bladder...inside...is urethane.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The Fat Cats used to have urethane bladders...until the model year change for 2008. Now they are PVC (vinyl) bladders...even though they still list urethane on their websites. FALSE ADVERTISING..[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]All that being said, I have owned the H3 and fished it thoroughly for 6 months. I like the quality construction and the the high floatation for my large body...over 6'3" and two hundred and PLENTY pounds. Pocket size and space good. No apron standard...had to make one. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There were two main "issues" I had that eventually caused me to go back to the Super Fat Cat. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]1. was the seat. I tried every possible permutation of adjustments in air pressure and strap adjustments but could never fish comfortably in the H3 for more than an hour without back ache and butt cramps. It was the same for my wife (TubeBabe). We both struggled with the comfort factor. And, since going back to the Fat Cats, we can fish all day without a bit of problem in comfort. That is always an idividual matter, but it is real to us. And, I am no rookie at tubing. I know how to make adjustments when needed. No matter what we tried, it was just never as comfortable as what we were used to with the Fat Cats.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]2. The elongated front pontoons. They are great for stability but create problems when trying to control or net large fish...especially those with spines...like catfish, walleye or bass. You need a longer handled net and the fish can tangle more easily...or puncture the air chambers with teeth or spines. I lost a few fish while fighting those pontoons. The shortened front on the Fat Cats are much better for anglers who catch larger fish...with spines. The longer pontoons are great for running in moving water, but I fish only stillwater.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]FINALLY...a lot is said about "offshore" manufacture, urethane vs PVC, safety, etc. I am as patriotic as anyone and believe in buying USA made products. However, "American Made" is not always a good thing. We make bad stuff too. And, if I cannot find what I want or need in a domestic product, I will buy something made elsewhere. Fat Cats ARE now made in China. Have been for years, and they are still considered to be a quality standard in the industry. They have a good warranty and the companies that sell them back them up. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Safety is an important concern. But...and this is a big BUT...I have heard of no tuber ever drowning or even being at risk of drowning while fishing from any Outcast tube. They do not come apart and the bladders to not explode while you are fishing. Sure, if you overinflate, you can have failure. You can also poke holes in them with knives, gaffs or fish spines. Same as with any tube. Any tube with an air bladder is subject to the same potential damage factors...regardless of where it is made. That is why you should always have a PFD handy. Accidents can happen...to anybody.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry, Joni. I know you have a good working relationship with Dave Scadden, and he gives you a healthy "professional" discount for saying nice things about his craft. And, he does have a lot of experience in the industry and DOES make quality products. He is mighty proud of them too, and sets his prices accordingly.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]But, my knowledge of Dave goes back MANY years, and I have some personal problems with his ethics and business practices. We both know why. I played the game with him to get a discount myself, on the two H3s I bought from him. But, I would never buy anything else from him, and I have since sold the H3s...for the reasons I outlined.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Got a good deal on a couple of Fat Cats online. They were the 2007 models, which still had the urethane bladders. But, I would have probably bought them even if they didn't. After over 50 years of tubing...all waters, all tackle, all species...I have a good idea of what works for me. No need to spend too much for an American made product that does not suit me as well.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now...if that doesn't mess you up, nothing will.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]The outer cover of the H3 is HARD PVC...to help protect the cover from scrapes and punctures, and is easier to keep clean. The air bladder...inside...is urethane.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]The Fat Cats used to have urethane bladders...until the model year change for 2008. Now they are PVC (vinyl) bladders...even though they still list urethane on their websites. FALSE ADVERTISING..[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]All that being said, I have owned the H3 and fished it thoroughly for 6 months. I like the quality construction and the the high floatation for my large body...over 6'3" and two hundred and PLENTY pounds. Pocket size and space good. No apron standard...had to make one. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]There were two main "issues" I had that eventually caused me to go back to the Super Fat Cat. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]1. was the seat. I tried every possible permutation of adjustments in air pressure and strap adjustments but could never fish comfortably in the H3 for more than an hour without back ache and butt cramps. It was the same for my wife (TubeBabe). We both struggled with the comfort factor. And, since going back to the Fat Cats, we can fish all day without a bit of problem in comfort. That is always an idividual matter, but it is real to us. And, I am no rookie at tubing. I know how to make adjustments when needed. No matter what we tried, it was just never as comfortable as what we were used to with the Fat Cats.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]2. The elongated front pontoons. They are great for stability but create problems when trying to control or net large fish...especially those with spines...like catfish, walleye or bass. You need a longer handled net and the fish can tangle more easily...or puncture the air chambers with teeth or spines. I lost a few fish while fighting those pontoons. The shortened front on the Fat Cats are much better for anglers who catch larger fish...with spines. The longer pontoons are great for running in moving water, but I fish only stillwater.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]FINALLY...a lot is said about "offshore" manufacture, urethane vs PVC, safety, etc. I am as patriotic as anyone and believe in buying USA made products. However, "American Made" is not always a good thing. We make bad stuff too. And, if I cannot find what I want or need in a domestic product, I will buy something made elsewhere. Fat Cats ARE now made in China. Have been for years, and they are still considered to be a quality standard in the industry. They have a good warranty and the companies that sell them back them up. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Safety is an important concern. But...and this is a big BUT...I have heard of no tuber ever drowning or even being at risk of drowning while fishing from any Outcast tube. They do not come apart and the bladders to not explode while you are fishing. Sure, if you overinflate, you can have failure. You can also poke holes in them with knives, gaffs or fish spines. Same as with any tube. Any tube with an air bladder is subject to the same potential damage factors...regardless of where it is made. That is why you should always have a PFD handy. Accidents can happen...to anybody.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Sorry, Joni. I know you have a good working relationship with Dave Scadden, and he gives you a healthy "professional" discount for saying nice things about his craft. And, he does have a lot of experience in the industry and DOES make quality products. He is mighty proud of them too, and sets his prices accordingly.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]But, my knowledge of Dave goes back MANY years, and I have some personal problems with his ethics and business practices. We both know why. I played the game with him to get a discount myself, on the two H3s I bought from him. But, I would never buy anything else from him, and I have since sold the H3s...for the reasons I outlined.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Got a good deal on a couple of Fat Cats online. They were the 2007 models, which still had the urethane bladders. But, I would have probably bought them even if they didn't. After over 50 years of tubing...all waters, all tackle, all species...I have a good idea of what works for me. No need to spend too much for an American made product that does not suit me as well.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Now...if that doesn't mess you up, nothing will.[/#0000ff]
[signature]