Still learning Bear Lake ... a couple of questions

[Old_Coot]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]Lately, I've not done real well in the fish catching department at Bear Lake. So I've got a couple of questions that you might be able to help me with here:[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]1) When tipping a grub with a worm for white fishing, do you use only a part of the worm or the whole worm or does it even mater?[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]2) Any special way to put the worm on the hook that works best?[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]3) Since I've had a few leaders brake lately on the initial hook set on a big macks (keeping up with my old tradition of "loosin' lures"), I was wondering what pound leader you all would recomend.[/size][/font]
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[muskyhunter]

Coot, I use 30# Fireline and 20# florocarbin for leader,only bad part about useing that heavy of line is when you catch one of those rocks its a bitch to break off[unsure]!!Like BLM says its better to be rigged big then not heavy enough, so when you finally do hook into "mr big" you have a lot less of a chance of loosing him do to line failure!!M.H.
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[wiperhunter2]

I haven't fished for the whites with nightcrawlers but I have used meal worms before, I would think if you are going to use nightcrawlers you should use no more than half and maybe even smaller if you are using small jigs like 1/16 oz. When using smaller jigs I try to not have too much hanging off the jig unless I'm fishing for walleye. The fish will eat the tail or the part hanging off and not get the hook but you could always use a stinger hook.
I think you will get a big difference of opinion when it comes to what leader to use but I use 10 or 12 pound leader depending on the type of line I'm using. WH2
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]The worm thing thing don't matter. How you put your worm on or how much doesn't make that much difference but the really question is, did you put your marshmellow on first? That may be your problem.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Line failure? I know you are using 10-12 lb test or bigger. Not likely with a good quailty line unless it's old or been exposed to tons of sun. My guess is this. Knots. Also, if my guess is correct, you are using florocarbon for leader material. [/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Knot are probably the #1 cause of problems when breaking off. That is the weak point in your system. The knots are not as strong as your line. Bad knots will break. If all the coils on your cinch knot or whatever type of knot you use, are not lined up correctly they can pinch and cut through each other. Everybody has their favorite knot but whatever knot you use, it should function correctly when practicing good knot tying technique. Not to burst your bubble, but I sincerely doubt you're are putting so much hook set to those fish that you are breaking them off or the fish are so big they are breaking you off. Go tie your line to a fence. Wind up and really set the hook as hard as you can against that stationary fence. I guarantee you won't break the line.[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Also if you are using florocarbon, are you making sure to wet your line before cinching your knots? Florocarbons are really heat sensitive and the slightest friction can cause it to break prematurely. So it is very important to keep as little friction from building up when tying your knots. Check you knots before tossing that jig over. If that knot is going to fail then you'll catch it there on the boat. Floros have their place but they can be finicky about how you tie them. Some guys don't like them because they don't know how to use them. [/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]As far as the catching goes, welcome to the Bear Lake Fishing Club. The numbers will never be that great on most days but the chance is always there to hook in to a fairly nice fish and that, to a lot of people is the lure of the Bear. Good Luck.[/size][/font]
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[fishnate]

As far the whitefish thing goes, I would only use a worm if the fishing is slow or if the fish are not hitting hard. When I use a worm I just put on about a 1 inch piece and hook it through the tip so it trails straight.

I agree with BLM on the knot issue. Make sure the knot wraps smoothly and then tug firmly to test it.
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[PREDATOR]

This has nothing to do with bear lake, but applies.

You have to remember that your fireline has no stretch in it. When you rip that pole to the sky it has no give so all your stress is on your knots and your leader.

Flourocarbon is designed to have much less stretch than traditional monofilament lines as well, so beefing up your leader may be something to look at.

But most likley BLM is right and its knot strength. In wich case it could be a bad batch of line that breaks when you tie the knot, or that you didnt wet your line when you tied it and it burned the line, or just that the knot type is innapropriate for the application.

I run into this alot at willard bay. I lkie to use straight fire line when trolling for wipers, but like to put a flourocarbon leader on when chasing walleyes.

What happens is while fishing for eyes, you accidentally hook into a wiper. Who hits so hard he maxes out your rod, and starts stripping drag before you can get to the rod. If you use a short piece of leader, less than five feet, or if the pound test is less that 10 they will break it nearly every time.

It doesnt take many lost lures to fix the problem though.

As far as learning bear lake, I expect that if you ever arent learning about it, and how to catcth the fish up there, you arent doing it right. Even the long time, seasoned anglers up there are constantly finding new things, new places, and learning more.

I think with all fisheries, you have to realize that lakes go through stages, or phases. Things may change from year to year based on food availablity, fluctuating water levels, pressure, or a wide range of variables. The best anglers are always learning these changes, and keeping up with them. Thats why they catch more fish than the majority.

As for the white fish, good luck. Personally I have no interest in that so I have no info, and I am not what you would call expirienced on the macks, but I get lucky about 75% of my trips up there and score a nice one or two. But then I was taught by the best and benefitted from his years and years of expirience.
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[Kent]

[size 2]You could try my approach of setting the drag too loose. You won't catch any more fish, but you won't loose any lures either (solves at least one of your problems). You will also have something that BLM can tease you about.[][/size]

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[PREDATOR]

I know lots of guys here have become fans of the loose drag method.

But I have always been under the opinion that the way it is supposed to work is that you fight the fish with your rod, and then the drag. The idea being that you set your drag based on the rod you are using. You set the drag to function just before the rod reaches its maximum bend. Thats why rods are rated for line pound classes. They should be designed to have the proper ammount of give for the line class.

This way you are using the rod to fight your fish, and the drag is tight enough to ensure you get good solid hooksets, yet give when there is almost no more give in the rod.

This is why guys who use 4 lb test line on a 10 -15 lb line class rod often dont get much bend in thier poles, and have to set thier drag loose.

Now, if you set your drag light, so you dont max out your rod and break the line, you run the risk of having the line strip off the drag when you make the hookset like you did and then BLM will give you crap about it for a while. But thats only because he understands the concept and has his rods set up so the drag functions when it should and ensures he gets solid hooksets.
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[BearLakeFishGuy]

Worms and whitefish.....just a small piece of worm is typically used to tip the small jigs. Maybe 1" or so. I agree with the other posts that you do no need a worm if the fish are "on". I fished last Sat. without any worms and small maribou jigs and two of us caught 20 whitefish. It was just a matter of finding the fish. Once we located fish we caught about 15 fish in about 45 minutes. Just hook the worm on, there is no secret way. The whitefish are hitting the jigs out of aggression more than for feeding.

Leaders and knot strength..... There are many opinions here. Best spot to look for fishing knots is on the web. I looked at several last night in fact and again proved to myself that it is difficult to beat the knot strength of the Palomar knot. It is easy to tie with jigs and holds 95% of the line strength. Other strong knots are the Trilene knot (about 95%) strength and the ever-popular improved clinch knot at about 75% strength. There are many others I don't mention. As far as line goes I am a Spiderwire fan too for vertical jigging. For the terminal end, I attach a 4 foot length of 12 to 15 monofilament (I like Trilene XT) to the jig. Between the Spiderwire and mono I use a barrel swivel to reduce line twist. I use the "braid" knot made for braided line to tie on the swivel. Again, this knot is found on the web. I agree with BLM that once you get over 12lb test or so, it is usually the knots that fail or the fish may be just hitting their teeth into the line just right and causing it to break.
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[Kent]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear -- but my post was supposed to be -in-cheek. I learned my lesson after one fish (or was it two as BLM recalls?). Set the drag tight enough to set the hook and do all of those other things that Predator described.
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[muskyhunter]

"Always" put the marshmellow on before the worm!!![laugh][laugh][laugh]Macks luv um!!!M.H
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[Old_Coot]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]Thanks gentlemen for all the good input,[/size][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2]Now, If I just knew where to find Cisco Beach.[/size][/font]
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