Tilapia as bait?

[kyLURE]

After reading the regs I'd lean towards it being illegal, but i wanted to hear what you all understand regarding using tilapia as cut bait where bait is allowed.
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[RockyRaab]

Since it neither a saltwater species, nor preserved/pickled, one would lean to the illegal opinion.

On the other hand, it is not a game fish, and can't do any harm, which leads to the "who cares" opinion.

(And the chances of being ticketed for it are next to nil, but don't take that as anything official.)
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[dubob]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]The 2019 Guidebook is specific about what can, and cannot, be used as bait in Utah. On Page 7, it says:[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[#000000]While you are fishing, it is unlawful to:
• Use or possess bait in the form of fresh
or frozen fish or fish parts, except as
provided below:[/#000000]

Tilapia are NOT listed in the "provided below" section.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]However, the Guidebook also says:[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[#000000]You may use commercially prepared and
chemically treated baitfish or their parts as bait
in any water where bait is permitted.[/#000000]

So if you could find any "commercially prepared and
chemically treated" Tilapia, you could use those as bait. (Good luck with finding any.)[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]The only reference to Tilapia in the Guidebook is in those sections that pertain to Blue Lake (near Wendover). NO limit, MUST kill, & CAN dispose (waste).[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]I believe from all that, that it is not legal to use Tilapia for bait.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]I have had numerous discussions with DWR guys over the years about the potential for violations by using "unnamed" legal fish or fish parts. It would be literally impossible to list all of the fish species sold in fish markets that are permissible to use as bait.
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[#0000FF]The main idea is to clarify which Utah fish species are allowable and to specifically exclude those that are not. Tilapia are an invasive and illegally introduced species...and under a mandatory kill regulation wherever they are caught in Utah. One step below carp on the desirability and protection scale.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]Tilapia are relatively inexpensive to purchase at a fish market. And like most fish they are readily accepted by non-discriminating catfish. Almost any fish flesh will work. Some of the oily and flavorful salt water species...like mackerel, sardines and anchovies...are especially good at times. As a general rule, all salt water species are legal. But as pointed out, fresh water species may be subject to carrying nasty fish diseases and unless properly treated (formaldehyde) could introduce problems to Utah fisheries.
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[#0000FF]I have not heard of any specific rulings on Tilapia but I will reach out and see if I can get a clarification.
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[castnshoot]

[quote RockyRaab]Since it neither a saltwater species, nor preserved/pickled, one would lean to the illegal opinion.

On the other hand, it is not a game fish, and can't do any harm, which leads to the "who cares" opinion.

(And the chances of being ticketed for it are next to nil, but don't take that as anything official.)[/quote]

Tilapia CAN live in salt water,,, in fact tilapia can thrive in water twice as salty as the ocean.

One reason they might not want Tilapia to be used as bait is people will leave a whole dead fish along the shore after they are done fishing and there by start a panic because it looks like they have been introduced into a water where they do not actually exist.

That has happened.
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[riverdog]

Just buy some at Costco ( commercially processed) and use a bait attractant (chemically treated) and you’re legal. And it’s a whole lot cheaper than driving out to Blue Lake to get illegal cut bait anyways.
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[dubob]

[quote riverdog]Just buy some at Costco ( commercially processed) and use a bait attractant (chemically treated) and you’re legal.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 3]And you KNOW this to be true how? Did you contact the DWR Law Enforcement folks and verify this?[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[riverdog]

I was being facetious. I’m not really expecting anybody to go buy food grade fish in Utah of any kind to use as bait- let alone ask DWR if it meets their definition of being legal. They’d be hard pressed to say it isn’t from the wording but who really cares.
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[RockyRaab]

Facetious or not, every fish counter in every supermarket throws out fish that sits too long. All you have to do is ask for whatever they're about to discard and you can get it for pennies.
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[doitall5000]

I've tried that several times, refused each time by several stores.
Given the current condition of our waters, full of everything, I don't see why we can't be allowed to use live bait.
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[dubob]

[quote riverdog]I was being facetious. [/quote][size 4][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]No way to know that from the way you wrote it and there will be folks that read it and for damn sure think it must be true - they read on the Internet. Peace and tight lines to you. [] [/#][/font][/size]
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[SBennett]

Doitall5000 for President!
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[doitall5000]

Thank you but I do have a thing, I don't lie!
I try to be curious with other people's opinion.

That's why I can't be President
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[SBennett]

Not sure what you mean.
I was applauding your comment about using live bait.
I too see zero harm in using live bait in the same water it was caught.
One day common sense will prevail...
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[catchinon]

+1

I would just add that emoticons were invented to avoid just such communication misunderstandings as we have seen here. A would have let us know that what was being written was facetious and a y face would have conveyed positive connotations. Just saying. Peace.
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[Matador]

Well, I learned a couple of things today. Mostly, I need to read the guidebook cover to cover again. I have been fishing in Utah for over 50 years. I do look that the guidebook quite often, especially when I go to new waters, and to refresh my memory when I go to waters that I know have special regulations. I try real hard to be legal in all I do. But I can see that I need to read the whole thing again, cover to cover, because this thread has pointed out details that I was not aware of. The rules about the baits you can use have changed a lot since my last close examination. Over the years, I have rarely used cuts baits, so I haven't paid much attention to those kinds of rules. If you go back a number of years, the rules basically stated that you couldn't use the parts of 'game fish' as bait, except on certain waters, and the rules for those waters were listed clearly. I always figured the point of the regulations was that we weren't supposed to use parts of game fish, to protect the game fish themselves, and to stop people from taking more than their limit. I was also aware that spreading diseases was a concern too.

So before this thread, I would have considered cut tilapia okay because:
1) It is not a game fish. I wasn't even aware there were any live tilapia swimming in Utah until a few weeks ago. Once I found that out I did check the guidebook to see if it was a game fish. It is not, and it has a kill order on it. To me, that put it in the same category as carp.
2) It is not live bait. Of course it is dead if it is frozen and cut into pieces.
3) I figured parts of dead, frozen fish of any kind (other than game fish in Utah) that you bought in a store was okay, with shrimp being the prime example. Clearly I missed the rules about this sort of thing.
4) We have always been allowed to use minnows (not game fish minnows) that come in a bottle. Given my first 3 points, I figured there would be no difference between frozen and bottled.

So now, I would conclude that tilapia is not legal.

It is too bad though, because buying frozen tilapia fillets is so much more convenient than getting your own cut bait from carp at the lake. I have limited time, and getting out fishing at all is rare for me, so getting fresh bait from carp is a tough option.

Thanks to all for the good info and insight.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Got a response back from Chris Penne...DWR.[/#0000FF]

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Regarding the tilapia bait question, it would be illegal to use tilapia for bait. The way the fishing guide lays it out on page 12 in the Bait section, when it comes to using fish it only mentions what is allowed and then everything else is prohibited. So it mentions some species that can be used at the waters where they were caught such as perch, cisco, white bass, etc. Then there are the species that you can use anywhere bait is permitted which include dead mountain sucker, Utah sucker, redside shiner, and carp. Then it also mentions the use of commercially processed fish baits. That's pretty much it. If tilapia were to be permitted, it would be included in the section that outlines the dead fish that can be used at any water where bait is permitted.
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[Matador]

Thank you TubeDude. I appreciate the absolutely certainty of the info you provided, and the time you spent to get it.
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[TubeDude]

[#0000FF]Glad to help. Anything not clearly understood is misunderstood.[/#0000FF]
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[#0000FF]Now why don't our elected officials adhere to that philosophy?
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[catchinon]

I was bored at work the other day so I pulled out the Fishing Guide and read it cover-to-cover to make sure I wasn't or was unaware of any regulations. I underlined the parts that I felt most affected me as I went. When this question came up I checked again.
Chris wrote:

"Regarding the tilapia bait question, it would be illegal to use tilapia for bait. The way the fishing guide lays it out on page 12 in the Bait section, when it comes to using fish it only mentions what is allowed and then everything else is prohibited. So it mentions some species that can be used at the waters where they were caught such as perch, cisco, white bass, etc. Then there are the species that you can use anywhere bait is permitted which include dead mountain sucker, Utah sucker, redside shiner, and carp. Then it also mentions the use of commercially processed fish baits. That's pretty much it. If tilapia were to be permitted, it would be included in the section that outlines the dead fish that can be used at any water where bait is permitted."

I'm afraid that some of this information doesn't jibe with what I read on page 12. I don't believe that every fish you may use legally is named there.

" Dead fresh or frozen saltwater species, including sardines and anchovies, may be used as bait in any water where bait is permitted."

The word "including" seems to mean that there are others, meaning all the saltwater fish in the world. Of course his does not include tilapia but would include mackerel and any number of other species that you might buy at, say, an Asian market.

I'm also about the use of Utah sucker at Utah Lake. I thought that it was not legal but the Fishing Guide says:

"Dead ... Utah sucker... may be used as bait in any water where bait is permitted." Is this accurate? If not, why not?
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