Island Lake Recreation shooting range needs help

[davetclown]

Island Lake Recreation Area shooting range has been closed to a noise complaint by some one who decided to build a house next to the gun range. (a mile away)

here is a copy of my concerns.


be sure to include your name and where you live, and if you live near an area open to hunting and shooting please include this information as well.

the closer you live twards these type of ficilites the better you will be heard.

Please send concerns in your own words to....


Carol Bambary
[url "mailto:bamberyc@michigan.gov"]bamberyc@michigan.gov[/url]

I live ½ mile from three gun ranges
Detroit – Birmingham – Multi Lakes

I bought my home knowing full well that the ranges were there and except the level of noise that comes from those ranges.

I am in support of the ranges both here in Commerce Twp (even though I am not a member and can not use the facilities) and any existing state run range that provides shooters with a safe operating facilities for those who can not afford to belong to well established gun clubs and the opportunity to enjoy their shooting sport and hone their hunting skills. This includes the Island Lakes Shooting Range, which is the closest geographical public location to my home. And where I like to hunt, fish and take nature walks.

I also believe that any complaints about spooking horses are unwarranted. I have seen hunters hunting deer from horse back in this area, up north, down south, and more so out west.

I am having many concerns with the constant movement trend against sportsmen who attempt to use and operate their sport in a safe organized and constructive manor. For most of us there is nothing that can replace the enjoyment that our shooting sports provides. I used to shoot at the Proud Lake Recreation range weekly years ago. Now that I have to drive 20 miles to shoot I go far less and if this range closes I will have to travel even further out of my range to find another range.

Another major concern is if this range is permanently closed it will not be replaced. With today’s state funding we will continue to see state facilities of all kinds closing do to lack of funding this will eventually include Island Lake Recreation Area it’s nature trails fishing opportunities, bathing and camping opportunities.

If you cut off the needed funding that this shooting range provides the park the state and more so the surrounding community will loose this valued resource, one that no individual club of any kind can support.

Personally I don’t understand how they can sew to have it shut down, the range existed before the new owner built. The owner knew the range was there and even if he didn’t the range was still pre excising.

Why doesn’t he complain about the traffic on the expressway noises? I am pretty sure all he is in titled to is an erection to a sound barrier if that.....
On a personally note I don’t understand the suit. I live half mile away from three gun ranges in commerce twp, shooting starts at 10 am and runs till 10 pm. on Island Lake Range shooting starts at 10 am and ends at 5 pm......

I do understand that each year around deer season hunters will flood all the ranges to test fire their firearms and to hone in their shooting skills. That may be the cause of additional noise due to a larger number of high power rifles going off at the same time. But still that I believe is the case around any gun range during the deer-hunting season.

It is important to me in mind and body that they be able to continue operating in this central location. A safe shooter not only protects other hunters and non-hunters in the woods from stray projectiles. It also protects drivers on the road from deer car accidents when clean shots are made in the woods.

I remember well what happened in the Milford area when the Proud Lake Recreation Area Range was closed back in the seventies and early eighties and the revenue losses to many local bait shops that resulted directly from the loss of the gun range. These shops never fully recovered. This single event was enough to drive many small bait and tackle shops out of business permanently. Even larger retail stores felt the sales loss generated by the loss of this gun range.
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[lonehunter]

point moullet in monroe , same thing with a twist .
the dnr built a house (on the state game land )for the resident point moullet dnr officer about a mile north of the gunrange there . the gunrange was too noisey for him so the gunrange was closed .
more proof that the people that make there living off our sports don't give a diddly squat about us .
i sure wish we sportsmen could vote on the people that get positions with the dnr instead of them getting appointed by their buddys .
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[davetclown]

you can thank ingler for that....

and grandholm has no entention on repealing inglers doings.... she apointed her own buddie....
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[lonehunter]

YEP , YA NOTICED WHEN SHE FIRST TOOK OFFICE SHE SLASHED SCHOOL FUNDING . NOW SHE'S USING "OUR KIDS FUTURE DEPEND ON US PASSING THIS OR THAT BILL "
SHE'S GOT A LONG WAY TO GO IN MY EYES , OF COURSE , ON HER WAY TO THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE WOULD SUIT ME JUST FINE AND DANDY .
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[davetclown]

Well first of all let me say thank you for expressing your views here. They are most welcome; it is my hopes you will leave this site with a fore sight of what you are about to do should you succeed in your endeavors to have this range closed down.

Some of your facts are misleading none the less the courts have the whole tallies of dates times permits and other materials pertaining to this case.

I have been in this area of which you live for more than 40 years. I know exactly where you live and I am full aware of the full noise levels that arise from that range. I do venture the lakes and rivers and trails of this park frequently. I would not be in the least bit surprised if the noise levels that exceed the limits of which you describe did not come from gun fire vary near your home. Which means your neighbors are shooting deer out their windows. This is not the first time this has happened on your street nor will it be the last.

As for the noise level on the golf course, it has already been documented that the expressway it self exceeds the 65 decibels all the way up to 100 decibels on most any given day. Televisions crews proved this several years back when the first controversies about the gun range arose 10+ years ago. They them selves sat there and monitored the noise level with out any gunfire at all and found the noise levels reaching and spiking levels I have mentioned. Not only do they reach those levels there are two other golf courses east of Kensington on I-696 that were also placed on surveillance for noise pollution with the exact same noise levels and spikes.

I realize you truly believe you are doing what you think is best for this park; I beg you heed these words I lay here before you each and every one. For if you skim through these words you will be condemning yourselves to something that you would never believe would ever happen in a million years.

Fact, true the beach traffic is nowhere near what it used to be, reason, that beach is now an alcohol free zone. I remember the road blocks past the gatehouse baring cars from going in because the lots were completely filled, a car would have to leave in order to allow another to enter. Yes those were the glory days of that beach.

You say I don’t live where you live, this is true, but I live in the exact same conditions in which you live yet I don’t get to benefit from it. I live ¼ mile from 3 gun ranges, the shooting begins at 10 am and runs to 10 pm. These are privet ranges to which I cannot afford to join.

You say that the barrels of the fire arms exceed the houses that are structured to keep shooters aiming at targets, well this tells me that you have never stepped foot on this gun range. Not only dose the barrel not reach through the housing provided I have serious doubts that any one could throw their gun completely through the housing with out hitting timbers designed to keep hand guns and rifles pointed down range.

True the skeet range is new with in the last 6 years. A week before the range was closed down was the last time I was at that range since the summer of 1998. I was surprised excited and impressed to see such a beautiful setup.

Now for your history lesson; as I said, I have been around for 40+ years so what I am about to tell you is first hand experience. 10 miles north east of your location we had a gun range. A man falsified information and shot his own house with a 30-06 rifle to get the range shut down. Well he succeeded. But what he didn’t know was what was going to happen afterwards. The gun range was the parks number one moneymaker. Meaning everything else the park had to offer was there solely by the grace of the gun range and when that range was gone so did all the benefits that the range provided leave as well. The employees to maintain the park were no longer needed and were let go, the materials to up keep the roads are no longer affordable so now the roads are filled with gaping holes to which are filled with sand and gravel because the park can no longer afford to fix them. Much of the equipment needed to maintain the park also has expired and never was replaced.

I bet you haven’t a clue as to what is going on with this park now do you? And if you tell me yes it will tell me something about you that you don’t want to let out. I will get to that later.

This parks now that it can no longer sustain itself has been selling off bits and pieces of its property year after year to developers. This once desired park with all its splendor and all its nature trails, ball diamonds, structures available for lease are going to the wind. The man who had the range closed down has sold his house and moved elsewhere. His house will soon be swallowed by a massive subdivision or even a giant shopping mall because our governor and those who will soon follow will not put out money to maintain a park that cannot pay for itself.

I am giving you full benefit of the doubt here in that I am taking for your word you are a resident there. And if you are a resident you too will want to protect what you have there. Because with out it you too will be sold out to developers who will swallow up your road your houses and place in a giant shopping center along with massive new homes.

You stand at the crossroads. And only a person who wants the park to go belly up financially would want that gun range closed. The DNR will not replace this multi million-dollar range. The state can’t afford to replace it.

This however doses not mean you don’t have the upper hand. You are in a position I would love to be in. you fully realize that you are in a position to reap the benefits of concessions. Meaning what that park has to offer you could have for free. There are cabins for rent, organizational camping available, and canoe camping available, there are pavilions available for you to reserve. All for free!!!!!

The best of what that park has to offer is there for the taking free of charge year after year yet you hope to close down what keeps those trails you walk upon open. MIND BOGGLING!!!!!

This is what can happen, you may not think so, but you are in the middle of what is called public domain. The DNR should it so chose buy you out of house and home and tear down your houses. Granted you will receive replacement or full market value, this will be the end result of your endeavors.

If you think it cant happen, hang on to your stirrups!!! I saw 300+ homes bought out by a developer to build a shopping mall at a price less than half of what it cost to move from their homes. The homeowners went to court to fight this and keep their homes. And lost to developers who wanted a mall. These people were tossed out on the streets to find other places to live, most could not afford to buy new or used homes but in the courts generosity did give the residents a year and a half to move before they built the Lakeside mall. Twas a story but my friend a true one……

With this knowledge set before your actions from this day forward will tell us who you are and what your plans truly entail for this park.

Only some one who wants to see the park fail will want to close the gun range. so take your time and think it out all the way through.
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[lonehunter]

well ya' musta never been to one of these shooting ranges ever , have ya' ? it's quite obvious from yer post ya ' ain't .
the dnr , (although not my favorite government agency ) dusen't screw around when it comes to the handeling of firearms . you can rest assured that not one pellet would ever leave the area , not one sound can escape without being muffeled by the bushes and trees planted around the range .
i think you would be safer living behind the range than you would be visiting your local convience store or taking a trip downtown . if ya' wanna do yourself a favor , get yourself educated first . borrow a gun , hop on over to the range , and try the range out yourself .
once you've giving it a go , come back an tell me how ya' feel about the range . i'de be highley suprised if ya' didn't make target shooting a regular saturday morning event like i did .
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[davetclown]

There is really only one workable solution to benefit every one.

Your design will in fact have the park closed down and sold off to developers. (I have already seen unofficial plans to have where you are sitting developed in to a gigantic shopping center and on the opposite side of the main road from you will become multi million dollar homes condos and high-rises).

The wilderness you speak of will disappear from the face of the earth. If this is what you want then you are moving in the right direction. With accordance of your last reply to me with fabrications and half-truths it makes me believe that this is what you want. (An omission of a fact to distort the truth is in fact a lie)

I have to say that I really got good laugh out of your numbers. I mean really!! This one should have been placed on the joke board…LOL I mean no disrespect but expecting me or a judge to think it cost half a million dollars to pull the front end loader out of the garage, drive out to the range followed by a dump truck scoop out the lead from behind the back stops and place more fill dirt back in its place. Less than an 8-hour day for one man.

The state picks up the lead on a regular basis, usually when they believe it has enough of a lead and copper deposit to justify the cost of removal and send it off to the refineries for recycling.

Your numbers are true! The parks did spend that money on those ranges. That money went to rebuilding existing structures. Upgrading layouts for disabled shooters like my self. Built new facilities at each site to enhance the over all pleasure of the as you say multitudes of those who enjoy the shooting sport.

As I stated previously the rite of public domain will one day in your lifetime be invoked on your property, the question remains is who is going to do it, the state in its endeavor to save its park paying you what your property is worth or the developers who will pay you exactly what they paid per acre to the state for its vacant land and then destroy completely every thing other than the historical land mark on the far western section of the park and the cemetery located on the north eastern side of the park. (Cemetery is still up in the air; developers have found ways to move cemeteries in recent days)

The state pays tax money to the local communities of which you live for every thing in those parks. This includes out houses, paved roads, bike path, cabins, pavilions and other structures. So if you think the state will continue to pay for those facilities when its moneymaker is gone you have been ly misinformed.

A smart man would sue the state to buy them out and move them across m59 so that you can live next to a park that dose not allow hunting, preferably closer to Buno road where you can not hear the range at all and enjoy living next to a large park. This is a case you can win. If you take it in the direction you are headed you will loose, even more so if you win the case. And you think the noise is bad now wait till your main road turns in to a 5-lane fairway with sirens blasting day and night.

Personally I would have more of an issue of that train that comes by your house day and night with its whistle blowing and tracks rumbling at in some cases less than one hour intervals just a hundred yards from your house.

As I said I know where you live, I too know your neighbors, some of which may or may not be relatives to me. []

My family has been here since WWI. I have watched the changes there for the last 50 years myself.... I know full well what I am talking about.

because of the states indiscressions it would be in your best intrest to change your suit to make the state move you to where ever you want to live. you could end up with an even better setting than if there was no range in this park. Dont look at this as a negitive thing, use it to your benifit. otherwise you will loose everything. that is unless you are the developer then you stand to gain everything....
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[lonehunter]

[font "arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][#00e010]Island Lake Shooting Range Reopens[/#00e010][/font]


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December 16, 2004
The Michigan Department of Natural Resources today reopened the Island Lake Shooting Range in Brighton, following a Michigan Court of Appeals reversal of a Livingston County Circuit Court injunction preventing the department from operating its shooting range.
The injunction had been in place since Nov. 18.
Island Lake Shooting Range offers rifle, pistol, skeet, trap and sporting clays. It is widely used by recreational shooters in southeast Michigan and local law enforcement agencies for training.
“We are pleased to once again have this facility available to the public,” said DNR Director Rebecca Humphries. “Shooting ranges not only provide an important venue for firearm training and education, they also offer quality family recreational experiences.”[/black][/font]
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[davetclown]

if you would go back to my last reply to your post you would see what I reffered to....

all to often to people who look to make a stance will pick up only a fraction of what is said and make a big deal out of it.

I am not misleading you. If I had a dollar for every one who has come back to me a year five years and ten years after I had informed them about what they were about to do I could buy me a 100 acre parcle on a mountain some where.
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[davetclown]

I beleive that there is still a court date set in mid january to have to be delt with in livingston county.

I saw on the news a couple days ago that the range was reopening.

It is good to see my neibors kids back on the range again. they have their own youth group that uses that particular range and when it closed it shut down their club shooting activity.

Amazingly enough 3 of thier members in thier youth club are vegitairians (dont hunt dont fish and only eat apple pie at mcdonalds) 5 members of their youth group are girls the same age as your little one....

they realy missed shooting, to bad that they dont shoot during the last days of december with all the various holidays and all...
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[davetclown]

Thanks for the tip about lead poisings.

there is some truth to this, you have to ingest the lead for the poisining to accure.

those who practice washing their hands and faces before eating will avoid most all posible lead contacts.

there are also a greater number of full metal jacketed lead and steel shot being used now days.

for any one who has had a filling placed in a tooth prior to 1990's has been treated to a dose of lead poisining. You have more to fear from old dental work than you do from lead firings.

one of the shortest commings of the statement that shooters are more liable to contact lead poising has been greatly exagerated.

if any one wants proof all they need do is contact their local Veterains Hospitol. these people have been hit by lead which was hot and at some what melted state along with bits of lead dust at the time of impact with their patents.

Fact of the matter is that vary few soldgers who served in WWI WWII and Coreia ever suffered from lead poising. they were surounded by gun fire day and night. more lead flew during those bouts with men trapped in the smoke of trench warfare which was by far greater than that of any indoor range. of the battle yet now lead poising.

there are people who love to spend time to falsify and or print miss leading information in attempts to get a point accross.

here is a fact for you that was not printed by this group and that is you stand a 10,000 times greater chance of contracting lead poising from handling a car battery than handling a bullet. (by not washing your hands after handling and then eating) granted if you set a sandwich or drink on your shooting table you have a pretty good chance of ingesting lead.

you have a better chance of getting lead poising from bad tap water. Many pipes in america and other countries still have lead pipes and or have had some idiot plumber wanna be who has used lead sodder to sweat your house pipes together.

I can go on and on about all the things that suround you on a daily basis that would astound you. you have more to fear from an old house or old car than you do from gun fire.

again I say thanks, lead poising is a serious health threat. and as a macheinest who has worked with exoctic metals including leads I can tell you that this site dose acruatly portrey the affects of lead poising.

there are also other ailments that resemble these same symptoms. only a blood test will rule out or confirm lead poising, gull blatter failure, apendex failure, thyriod failure just to mention a few. so any one who has these symptoms should seek medical attention emediatly, My nephew who never fired a gun in his life passed a couple months ago with these vary same symptoms. (sorry it wasnt lead poising)
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