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I have a question about a safety concern using waders and floating. Hopefully I never have to find out the answer to this question first hand, but if some of you have, I would like to know.
I am just getting started with my first toon. I am in Alaska, and so there is really not any question about 'if' I should use any waders or not. But I have heard stories about near drowning experiences with waders filling up with water and pulling people under. Of course wearing a pfd is the best defense, but if the waders completely filled up, would a pfd still work properly. I realize there are a lot of variable there that you might have to consider, but has anyone 'gone swimming' and had any problems with the waders causing safety problems? Like I say, hopefully I won't ever have to find out, but I am planning on floating moving water and would like to know what to expect.
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First off, that is why waders have belts. But I was told that if your waders do fill ip with water it is zero bouyance.
Try filling a water balloon with water and through it in a pool.
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[cool] [#0000ff]As the flygoddess has suggested, a belt will help prevent a major intake of water in the event you are dunked in the drink. And, you definitely want to avoid taking on water in your waders. Cold water accelerates hypothermia and loss of control. The bulk of the water also restricts mobility.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The potential GOOD news is that tubers and tooners have far less chance of getting immersed than those who wade while fishing. I have never "lost it" while tubing and I do not know anyone else who has. However, if you are running  rivers in a pontoon the possibility of getting bucked off is increased.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Wear a waist belt on your waders and a good PFD, like the inflatable SOSspenders while running the rivers and you should be okay. If you want an extra measure of safety, maybe you can install a seat belt with a quick release buckle...just in case.[/#0000ff]
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I think the safest thing one can do before any situation ever arises, is to close your eyes and envision what you would do and how you would react.
I have thought of the safety of waders in the past and the best info I can give you, and know someone who has used this, is to carry a sharp knife on you at all times in a very accessable spot, ON YOUR PERSON! If I was to go under, I can have my knife out within 2-3 seconds and be cutting. Same for deep sea fishing, you get a line wrapped around you and you better be able to cut it within 4 seconds! Otherwise you can get pulled under.
A friend of mine was walking about 15 feet from shore and walked/slipped off a ledge in the water. His waders started filling up and he pulled his knife immediately and slit from ankle up on each leg using the gut hook. As soon as he did it, he said he could feel a bunch of weight dissipate. The spot he stepped off of went from about 3' to about 12'. He has said it may have well been 300' deep to him. When he went under he said the only thing on his mind was, knife & cut.
Now, I have never been in an 'ohh shoot' situation while wearing waders but have been in other OS situations where the following has literally saved my life. Situational awareness is the #1 thing that can help prevent you from getting into a situation in any environment. Whether in the city walking a dark street, drinking in a bar, elk hunting 6 miles back country, or sitting in a boat. A person should ALWAYS be thinking about what could happen and how they would react. Where is the best route out, what items/things in the area could help me, what is the #1 thing I need to get done to ensure my safety. You need to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Situational mental practice will save your butt if things happen to go too far.
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Before slicing your waders, again I am going to say ZERO bouyancie (M/S). Both my husband and myself have gone in the drink in our breathables. It will NOT drag you down. You won't notice the extra weight till you get out of the water. In fact I felt like I was floating a bit.
Try filling a baggie with water and throw it in the tube.
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I agree being aware of a situation and knowing how to react is the best survival defense. I had thought of cutting off the straps in an emergency then stripping down the waders, but the shoes I'd probably have to cut as well. I have fairly snug fighting neoprene waders but dont have a belt. I don't have any intentions of running any serious rapids, but sweepers are a problem up here and most say that is the biggest concern. Good awareness and being prepared should help keep me safe.
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I have gone swimming with two kinds of waders just so I knew what it was like just in case, and I can attest they do not drag you down when filled with water. My guess is people drown when they panic and try too hard to swim, then they get exausted and go under. With the rubber waders it was impossible to swim in a conventional manner for me, it would tire me out quickly without getting anywere if I kept at it. I found that if I just leaned back and did a sort of a backstroke with my hands, not trying to kick, i could move along pretty good no problem.
With the neoprenes I could swim just fine, in fact they help float and do not fill up too much, plus the water that does get in warms up almost like a wetsuit keeping me warm. The lakewater was around 60 degrees, but when I emptied my waders out that water felt 20 degrees warmer!
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I have never went in the drink off my float tube, but I have filled the waders a couple of times "in the day" when I was into waterfowling, and it is true that they will not take you down. FG is absolutely correct. What water filled waders can do is make it more difficult to get back into your tube, because of the extra weight you have to pull out of the water. Nevertheless, you should be safe short term in almost any water mishap if you have your wader belt and PFD on. (at least until hypothermia becomes an issue.)
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Here's an interesting article that challenges conventional thinking on this subject. Kind of a flyfishing version of "Myth Busters." I can't comment on it accuracy since I've never been in the water over the tops of my waders.
[url "http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/killerwader.shtml"]Killer Wader Myth[/url]
Your comments are welcome.
zonker
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[cool][#0000ff]Great article. Thanks for sharing.[/#0000ff]
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That was an interesting article. Sounds like they aren't the killers they are rumored to be. But I have also read an article by a sports writer in Montana(I think) that flipped his toon with the combination of waves, standing and leaning forward. He nearly drowned from the cold water crampin his arm muscles so he couldn't pull himself out of the water. He had a pfd with him, but once the toon flipped he was unable to put it on. Fortunately he had a friend nearby to help him. But enough of these horror stories, common sense seems to be the biggest life saver.
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Wow, thanks for posting that article! He did the same thing I did, with the same results, only I did it off a dock. Thought I was the only one nutty enough to do things like that![cool]
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Would I lie to you[  ]
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Read that "Killer Wader Myth" real quick as it is late and I have to be in bed now but I gotta ask can any of you get out of the waders while it is flooded and both of you are in the lake? (I didn't see this part in there yet)
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[cool][#0000ff]Just say NO. Get some sleep and think about it. It ain't gonna happen.[/#0000ff]
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Here's the voice of experience. About 2 times a year, I happen to fall in a hole on some river, somewhere. Never have I been drug down. Just kind of float on top of the water, and just cruise downstream until I eventually end up on the bank. Never gone very far. I just lay back with my feet downstream, and actually after the 3rd time I fell in, I felt like I should go back upstream and pay the ride attendant. Now I actually look forward to dunking myself.
The only bitch I have is when I get out of the water, the bottoms of my waders from the leg down are filled with about 5 gallons of water each and makes it real hard to gracefully take a step. Plus I look like the bottom half of the Michelin man.
One other thing I notice, and if it's in the article that Z had posted, sorry for repeating it, (I only read part of the article) the water pressure below the surface seems to hug your legs and torso and will most likely keep water out too. Wear a wading belt.
EA
and the Mojo rizes
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Good article but not sure if I am going to be so quick to judge.
Here is an article from yesterday that seems to contradict the thought that waders cannot contribute to a death.
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Death of fisherman from Morris County blamed on waders
Monday, June 05, 2006
BY RALPH R. ORTEGA
Star-Ledger Staff
Water-filled chest waders pulled a Morris County man under when he slipped in a river and drowned during a fly-fishing trip to the Catskill Mountains this past weekend, police and family said.
Justin Everrett, 44, of Montville died Saturday as four fishing bud dies watched helplessly at the junc tion of the Beaverkill and Willow Weemoc rivers in Roscoe, N.Y., a trout fishing haven 75 miles southwest of Albany.
The friends told police Everrett began crossing a 75-foot stretch of water when he slipped on a rock and was overpowered by the cur rent about 4:30 p.m.
Everrett's chest waders filled with water and, like anchors, pulled him down where the river bottom dropped from 2 feet to 16 feet, according to senior investigator Michael Orrego of the New York State Police.
"Two of the friends waded in, but the current was too strong. They had to back off," Orrego said.
One friend called 911 from the river, but Orrego said it took an hour to recover Everrett's body after rescuers made it to the remote, rural area.
Everrett was pronounced dead at the Catskill Regional Medical Center in Harris, N.Y. His wife of 15 years, Karen, said she could not sleep wondering how much her husband struggled with the waders pulling him down.
"There has got to be a way to get out of those things quickly," she said, breaking into tears. "I was told he had about 30 seconds. That's a death (sentence). Nobody needs to die that way. How long does it take a person to drown? That's plenty of suffering right there."
The widow, a 13-year-old daughter, Allison, and 18-year-old stepdaughter, Ashley, who is graduating from high school Friday, re side in North Carolina.
Everrett, finding no work close to home, got a job in New Jersey three years ago. He supported his family from afar, first working in the financial industry, and more re cently doing home remodeling.
He was described by friends as funny, creative and devoted to his daughters.
"He seemed really into his family. He was a really great guy. This really hasn't sunk in yet," said Patricia Vytell, a neighbor in Montville.
Karen Everrett said her husband had been an avid kayaker, and that she did not know him to be much of an angler. However, she said he was still excited about going fishing. On the Internet, Ros coe is billed as "Trout Town," just two hours north of the George Washington Bridge.
Karen Everrett worried how the family would cope without Everrett, who breached the gap between them with frequent phone calls.
"At least I got to talk to him often," she said, her voice cracking with emotion.
Staff writer Laura Johnston contributed to this report.
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http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base...nnj&coll=1
Just something to think about....
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[cool][#0000ff]Don't blame the waders. Blame the stupidity of someone who would challenge heavy water wearing ANYTHING. At the very least he should have been wearing both a wading belt and a PFD. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That is a totally different issue than wearing waders while tubing. As I have stated many times, I have tubed for over 50 years and neither myself or anyone I have ever known has had a mishap in a tube that resulted in their waders filling with water.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]On the other hand, it is fairly common for fishermen wading big rivers (and even small streams) to misjudge the strength of the current and the depth of the water and to take an unscheduled "float trip". Sometimes the story has a happy ending, and everybody laughs about it. Other times it ends in tragedy. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Just don't blame the waders for a lapse in judgment on the part of the fisherman. Even nice guys can get killed by stupidity and bad luck.[/#0000ff]
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I concur with Tubedude. Don't blame the waders. You have a much different situation when fishing a swift and powerful river than you do in placid lake waters. For one thing, in a lake you are not swept up off your feet by any current. That alone could cause person to slip under - waders or not. For another, speaking from experience, most wading river fishermen wear bulky (sometimes heavy) wading boots which offer little or no opportunity to kick so as to propel oneself to the surface. Even bare feet provide better propulsion than boots. Given the fact, again from experience, that river fishermen who slip in usually grip their expensive rods so as not to lose them, there may not be much upward thrust coming from hands, either. Tubers and tuners wear flippers which offer the opportunity to propel oneself upward. And yet another point is that many river fishermen wear quite a bit of gear on their persons in the form of a stuffed vest, net, wading staff, etc. Tubers and tuners usually carry most of their gear in pockets on their craft.
If someone's waders filled up with rocks or lead he/she would be "dragged under by their waders." That is because what is inside the waders has greater density than the water. Waders filled with water provide a density which is equal to the water around them which, accept for the density of the fisherman's legs, which is probably negligable, amounts to neutral density. There isn't going to be any "pulling down" to be blamed on the waders. Current, yes. Waders full of water, no.
I feel perfectly safe in my tube in my waders. For good measure though, I wear an inflatable PFD at all times. If I leave my wife a widow I don't expect it to be because I slipped into the lake with my waders on. Ditto for fishing a river because I wear the PFD there, too. Wear one of those thin, comfortable, inflatable PFDs. Even if you don't get "pulled under by your waders" you can still drown - from stupidity if nothing else.
zonker
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Although, the waders sound like the cause, I wet wade in warm weather in just shorts. If that flow is high, and fast, the current pulls you down, even in shorts (been there). The water is turning underneath causing undertows. I don't think it would matter what he was wearing, but the waders sounds good[  ]
Again......ZERO BOUYANCIE (m/s)
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