Wire setup for Flaming Gorge - Macs

[ElwoodNeedaMac]

Let me start by saying I just happened on this site while doing research on catching Macs at FG. To the folks that post I just want to say thanks! There is a lot of great info in these fourms and it is much appreciated. I am hoping I can get some assistance in getting set up for the Macs. Over the last 6 months I have been building my fishing outfit. Currently I am running a couple Mag10 downriggers with Garmin 240 Fish Finder and just added the Garmin GPSV. To complete my outfit, I am looking for the right setup in order to drag steel. Through my research, the reel I keep coming back to in the Penn 49L. Is this a decent reel for the steel? I have also been told to run between 80 and 120# 7 strand wire. I have only been up to FG a couple times so far. The first time was windy so we dragged the steel. I hooked one but he spit the hook. The second time we tried the downriggers to no avail. Long story short, I have never caught a Mac and I am DYING to do so. Any hints, hot spots, advice, ANYTHING would be GREATLY APPRECIATED! (thats to say if you wanted to invite me on your next trip and teach me some tricks, I would pay for all the Wyoming beer / pop / food you could eat or drink) Thanks in Advance.
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[caughtmydink]

My best sug. for you is to put a dodger/needlefish combo 75 feet behind your downrigger ball about 60 feet down. Then sit back and take in the beauty of The Gorge and enjoy catching kokanee all day. If you see a bigger arc on your finder (you MUST have a good fish finder for The Gorge) You can drop that same rig down about 2 feet from the bottom and pick up an occasional smaller Mack (3-10 lbs.). As far as the bigger Macks and steel line go. Forget It ! Those fish are far too educated for that, and that is 10x as true for the fish in Linwood Bay. Your catch rates will be so low on steel you will start to think those big fish dont exist. Then when you do finally dumb luck hook one, you fight 300 yds. of steel line as much as you do the fish. If you really want to learn how its done, dont buy reels, buy education. Book a guided trip with an experienced guide who knows how to jig for those fish on light tackle.(I would suggest Jim Williams,though he does'nt come cheap and he has about a year + waiting list.) And once you see how its done...Practice,practice,practice. And keep your lip tight about what you know. Its just too hard,time consuming, and expensive to learn.

Nobody who knows how to fish for those fish is going to post it on this message board.

And from alot of the posts about The Gorge I've read on here,people have absolutely no idea what they're talking about ,or, they are purposely trying to steer you in the wrong direction.

My guess is the latter.

Good Luck
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[halojm]

I've fished the Gorge for years and caught my share of big fish. The best info I can give you is this. If you want to make a lot of enemies, drag steel though everyone using down riggers. Either jig or use down riggers. You will enjoy the afterfishing time with you buddies a lot more.
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[luckybob]

Hey caughtmydink lighten up!!!
The folks on this web site are very helpful!!! Let me just say this...I have caught more Big Macs at the Gore with steel line than I have jigging. I fished with Jim Williams a couple of years ago. Three of fished all day with him and of coarsed we jigged. We caught NOTHING!!!!!! It is alot more fun to catch a big Mac on light tackle and I still like to jig for Macs but hour for hour I have caught a lot more Macs with Steel. I have posted several pictures on this web site of Macs, they were all caught on steel. Check it out.

Have a good One!!
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[Lundman]

Here is a great article about fishing Macs at the Gorge with downriggers

Site: [url "http://web.ksl.com/radio/amazingoutdoors/"]http://web.ksl.com/radio/amazingoutdoors/[/url]

The article is authored by Bill Furniss

Click on fishing and select Flaming Gorge - it's the first article

Great Stuff and hope it will help you get the skunk off...


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[Gumbo]

Wire lining is a pretty specialized presentation. I've tried it enough at the Gorge to know that I don't care for it, but it is effective.

As for jigging, it's a good way to go when there's no-to-little wind. But when the wind blow--especially for those new to deep-water jigging--it's typically more effective to switch presentations. And that's when I troll with my downriggers. I've found that big macs aren't ball shy, so place your bait close to the ball and hug the bottom.

There was a post a while back about wire line rigs. Do a search and you'll find at few threads. A good wire line rig is going to cost you though, so I'd suggest making sure you like that presentation before you dive in head first.

[petty4life]

i know bearlakemack has been using steel this year up on the gorge and from what i can see he likes it. shoot him a pm and im sure he can answer all your questions about steel...
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[clipripper]

i fish the gorge quite regularly and i jig and my favorite is fishing with steel line. i would just like to say tothat the when you are fishing you should not get so close to those trolling to catch them while they are using steel it is very rude to need to get that close to someone else while they are fishing. i have had my encounters with the downrigger fisherman and i can assure all of you that this does and will happen. however you can cause them great problems if this bothers you as it does me. Just keep going and as you do yank and jerk your rod you can do multiple things by doing this. it will either break their ball off,tear their line up so much that it wont be usable to them or it will break the boom on the down rigger. I am not tring to sound rude but i do think that when you are out fishing that you should be courtous of others and give them there space.
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[Coldfooter]

Its one thing to show poor judgement by trolling to close another boat and causing a tangled mess. However, I feel its totally uncalled for and very unsportman like to try and distroy another persons fishing equipment reguardless of the situation....
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[clipripper]

I agree Coldfooter but when it happens time and time again everytime you get caught up if you have steel line you will loose quite a bit and it gets very frustrating. It costs alot to replace it and it also is very time consuming to repair the damage. This is the main reason alot of people only fish in the winter to avoid the mess. I am not saying anyone should do that i am just saying it can happen. I just think those with downriggers should be a courtous of those who use steel line.
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[Theekillerbee]

Well Elwood, it looks like you've caused a little rucuos here!! Anyways, no matter what is said, steel line will catch you big macs. If I were to pick a few lures to use, get some K15 kwikfish or equivalent sized flatfish and troll over the humps near the dam (sorry I can't be more specific, I do not fish the Gorge much). From what I hear, it is a very difficult thing to do to get the hang of, but from what they say, it is very effective. This info comes from an "old fart" I met while at work. He said a few years ago he never would have shared this info, but since he is too sick/debilitated to get out any more, he'd share it with me. He also shared it with one of our medics, and he has gone up and tried the techniques, and he has caught fish. He has lost some tackle trolling over the humps, and he finds it easier to paralell the humps, he has caught some fish, but only the smaller 15 lb fish. You need to get the feel for trolling over the humps to get the big ones to hit. Yes, jigging can be effective, and yes, you do get a better fight while jigging, but try the steel, be courteous of other boaters, and plan on loosing a lot of tackle to get the hang of it. But in the end, you'll catch a lot of macs. Good luck, and let us know how you do.
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[Coldfooter]

Well I'm glad to hear we agree on that and let me say I completely understand what your saying too. Theres a lot of idiots that feel their particular needs out weigh the next guys. In this case its that old, "gotta beat to them to hot spot" mentality. Sadly to many folks are lead to believe the biggin's are only found in very select locations so they pounce on those areas like flies on,, you know.

Btw, up until this summer I was one of those old farts that sent far more time on the hard deck than soft water and because of the exact reason you mentioned. But this year after planting my butt in a float tube for the first time in 25 years I found I again enjoyed the Summer months on the water. Whats more, I have not one but two boats and must admit I try and stand in only one at a time, so far so good.

But seriously, whether its the guy with the downrigger or the guy pulling steel or merely the long liners, all should follow the simple rules of the road, or in this case the water, and use their darn turning signals and brake lights!! []
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Lots of good points made about fishing for macks on the Gorge. Needless to say, no matter what you are doing, catching macks on the Gorge, unfortunately, is as some have said, a tight lipped subject with most successful mack fishermen there. No one wants to let out their secrets.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I've seen good macks, this year, caught on everything. The weekend Predator and I were up in June, I saw 4 fish over 30 lbs, one 44 lbs, caught on riggers. We caught a 33 lb mack and several dinks on steel and talked with guys who jig and saw several large fish (20 lb plus) taken with jigs. It can be done but I think the biggest thing is not just the technique used but what the fish are doing at a piticular time of year and matching your technique to them. There is no substitute for time on the water and learning your quarry.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Any successful fisherman on the Gorge could tell you their intermost secrets about the technique they favor and you could go buy all the gear and not catch a thing for several outings. Sorry, fact of life. I, after spending almost the last two years on the Gorge as much as I could afford, will be the first to say "It ain't the easiest water to learn to fish", especially if you're after big macks. I am getting the hang of it but I'm a definite rookie. The more I learn about that pond the more I realize just how little I really know.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]ElwoodNeedaMac, if you want to learn to fish steel wire than go do it. Buy the Penn 49L Super Mariner, a rod that can won't get eaten alive by steel line, Penn make a decent one for about $130 with the new ceramic guides that with stand up to the rigors of steel. Spool the reel with a 1000 ft of multistrand steel wire and get 10,000 T50 flatfish or K15 kwikfish. Go buy some monterous pop gear, attach a 12-16 oz weight to your steel line in front of the pop gear, hook a chub or large minnow plastic and start draggin' "Junk" across the bottom.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]When all the jiggers head home because the wind gets too strong to maintain boat control, use it to your advantage and troll your steel by wind power. Throw out drift sockets to slow yourself down. You'll catch fish when others can't.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]You'll snag up A LOT, loose a bzilloin $6 lures, pull up other's lost gear, and wear yourself out reeling in water logged bushes and trees. You'll cuss as you try to get all the line twist out of that steel that has created this monsterous "wire salad" mess that you believe will never come untangled BUT you will catch fish if you keep after it.[/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Yes, you will have your run-in's with others because YOU have out 400'-500' of line out and a downrigger 200' away will snag you. The easiest way to avoid a confrontation is keep your wits and be polite no matter what tries to escalate. Everyone has a right to be there. Most reasonable people that have fished the Gorge understand the game. You'll run into a few jerks but I've found that most everyone tries to get along. [/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Don't be discourage and keep after it. My first trips were nothing more than learning the lake and donating to the local economy. I guarantee it will get better and pay off. Just my very uneducated, dumb a$$ opinion.[/size][/black][/font]
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[ElwoodNeedaMac]

Thanks to everyone who posted. It does look like I stirred the pot.
I went up to sportmans this evening and found they had a pretty good deal on the 49L so I picked one up along with 1000' of 90# wire. Now I just have to find the right rod. Any suggestions? I know I have to go with a roller tip and perhaps rollers all the way. What do you all use and or recommend?

Thanks again to everyone, It's a lot of good info. Seems like common sense while dragging will keep you out of another man rigger(s). I cant wait to get up there and pull one of those bad boys out for a quick picture and then watch him swim away. Thats my idea of a great FG trip.

I also picked up another rod/reel and some leadcore for the berry. I have never used leadcore either so learning to use both the core and steel should keep me entertained for a while.(either entertained or pissed off cause a I keep getting snagged and watching my $ get stuck on the bottom. :-}
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]Go to the Penn site and look at their steel wire rod with a new type of ceramic guides. No rollers. Also tungsten carbide guides are the ultimate that never wear out but highly expensive! Again, no roller tip there either. Rollers do work but will wear out overtime. If you go with rollers make sure they are stainless and not aluminum which will not last a season.[/size][/font][/size][/black][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Stimulating conversation and debate is not stirring the pot. As long as it stays civil, it's all good. Hope everyone got something positive from this discussion. Good luck on the Gorge, ElwoodNeedaMac![/size][/black][/font]
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[caughtmydink]

Well Elwood, Im so sorry to hear you bought that outfit.Im sure that if you keep it in good condition you can recover most of what you paid for it next spring by listing it on the classified section.

Some of the other responses should show you what im talking about. Steel worked 10 or 15 years ago, but those fish live up to 100 yrs. How many times do you think theyve seen a k15 flatfish wiz by theyre face at 2.5 mph?

I have learned alot about catching those fish over the last 10 yrs. and the one the one thing I will tell you is this...No where in the world does the old saying "95 percent of the fish live in five percent of the water." In other words, there is a reason all those boats are concentrated in very small areas.
Thats where the fish are!
If your not fishing where the other boats are, then your not fishing where the fish are!
And even if you do have those humps to yourself, 400-500 hundred yds of line out? Those humps are 50 ft across if your lucky. And then you have to make a GIANT turn to get back to the hemp.
That means for every hour of fishing you put in, your bait is in the fish zone for about 15 seconds. Not condusive to good fishing.

I wish you the best of luck.

Unfortunetly I have a pretty good idea of how your luck will be.
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[PREDATOR]

You know, its funny to me that we as fishermen tend to find ourselves commited to our prefrences.
At times we tend to say things that suggest one lure or one presentation is better than another.
Examples would be, crankbaits are better than soft plastics, or jigging is better than trolling.
Since this is a mack fishing post, lets explore the issue of trolling riggers, steel, ond vertical jigging.
First off, we must realize the in order to catch fish, you must understand thier seasonal movements, and locations based on water temps, food scource, cover and structure.
Once you have figured out where the fish are, or should be, you can worry about your presentation.
Presentation is where this argument comes in.
Lets realize that trolling presentations and jigging presentations are TOTALLY oppostie. Trolling is a horizontal presentaion, because it runs parallell to the bottom, it is a very effective search method. You can cover lots of water to locate fish. But not only are you locating fish, you are always presenting your bait to different fish. If one fish is in a negative mood, and wont hit, trolling simply moves you along until you find active fish. Also, trolling lures are generally designed to trigger reation strikes rather than feeding strikes.
So, trolling gives up the following advantages. Targets active fish, sees more fish, and works when fish are relating to horizontal conditions.
Now lets look at jigging.
Jigging is a vertical presentation. Up and down, up and down in the fish's face. This method puts your lure in the fish's strike zone and keeps it there giving neutral or negative fish longer to become agitated or enticed into striking it. Also baits used in this method are generally designed to appeal to a fish's feeding response rather than triggering reaction strikes. Thats not to say they dont trigger reactions, we dont want to start a war about that.
So wich one is better?
If you think you have the right pick, I would suggest you need to rethink your answer.
The right pick is bolth.
Not all fish on a hump, or flat, or suspended in open water are feeling the same, and reacting just like one another.
Some fish are more prone to being caught vertical jigging, some fish are more prone to being caught trolling. If you restrict yourself to one or the other you are choosing to ignore the potential to catch more fish. You choose to restrict yourself.
Now lets get into riggers versus steel line rigs.
Whats the difference?
Well, for trolling rigs you cant get too different. One requires that you long line out TONS of line, and runs at an angle from the surface to the bottom. The other involes less line out, but puts the line straight down below the boat.
The ptions available are as different as well.
With riggers, you can run smaller reels with heavy monofilament line, with steel, you are running big heavy stuff with steel line tied directly to the lure in most cases. Wich one is better?
If you think theres an easy answer to that one, you can bet I am going to suggest otherwise.
Rigger balls run at a constant depth wich provides advantages in that you can avoid snags by setting them off the bottom. But when the depth dips, your lure looses contact with the bottom.
Steel will run the contour of the bottom and keep itself there at all times.
But what if theres suspended fish? Like BLM said, we know of a 44 lber that was caught suspended in 50 ft of water where the bottom was 80 ft deep. Now, with steel, putting your lure in that fish's face is going to be extremley difficult. But with riggers you just set your depth and you know where you are at. That lure gets in his face with little effort.
So, steel has its advantages and so do riggers. Wich one is better? depends on the fish. Location and conditions determine presentaion.

Let me say that again.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE SPECIES OF FISH, LOCATION AND CONDITIONS DETERMINE THE PRESENTATION.

One is never always better than another and anyone who tells you they prefer one to the other has thier prefrence, but anyone who tells you one is BETTER than another is someone you may want to think twice about taking advice from.

Fish are living creatures that are subject to changing factors. The versatile angler who changes with the fish will be the effective angler.

Where you are trying to learn the gorge, I would suggest you keep yourself open to all options, use the advantages of each presentation to best suit you. Trolling your steel rigs is going to be a good, and effective way to get yourself acquainted with the areas that hold fish at given times off year. But when you find fish in those areas and your steel isnt working you may need to switch up, do some jigging, or move to suspended fish up off the bottom feeding in another area.

Listen to the advice blm gave in his post.
You can give a guy all the lures, equipment, ect, tell him right where to put them, show him how to do it, and everything else, but until a guy puts in his time on the water, focuses, pays attention and adapts to the conditions and the fish, he wont be consistently effective. Thats very true.
Put in your time, dont get discouraged, keep your options open, and you will be alright. That goes for all species, on every lake, everywhere.
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[Gumbo]

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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Just my very uneducated, dumb a$$ opinion.[/size][/black][/font] [/reply]

My exact sentiments, BLM.


[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]Controversy can only spark thought and growth, and apparently [/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]there are a lot of folks who need that, even if they do not [/size][/font][font "Times New Roman"][size 3]acknowledge it.[/size][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]--L. Lane[/size][/font]

[kokeking]

right on predator.well written and lots of good info there.your so right nothing works all the time every time ,if it did all we would need is one lure.


i have fished a enough steel to know that it not for me,but i would never tell anyone not to try it,but it does take a lot of time to get it right,the time has to be put in to do it right and make it productive.
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