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The subject of bass harvest came up on the Starvation thread. My dim bulb has been thinking about this a lot this summer. It seems to me that some waters like Deer Creek are overrun with undersized smallies and could use major thinning. Also, the forage doesn't seem to be there as much as would be expected with all the flooded brush on the Charleston arm for the last 2 years. Other ponds like Jordanelle have a nice balance between small and larger fish. I recognize that each pond should optimally be managed individually but I guess my questions are these.
1. Should we be actively harvesting bass (for the good of the fishery), especially smaller ones?
2. Should regulation changes be considered? (Remember, the bassers were a major force in enacting the 12 inch maximum at DC and Jordanelle and activism by them would likely result in new changes if lobbied for.)
3. Do regulations even matter? Will bassers be like the fly fishermen and brown trout on the Lower Provo/elsewhere and refuse to keep bass even when the DWR encourages them to do so?
Do non bassers catch (and keep) enough bass to even be a factor?
I don't claim to have the answers on this, but am interested in what others think.
Full disclosure; I am quite certain that the last bass I personally kept was in 1995, and that was one that I tried to revive and release but couldn't. Most of my summertime fishing the last few years has been for bass.
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Well you ask so...
1. you only have or have been catching small bass because at deer creek a lot of them are kept by poachers or fish hogs....
2. It takes 4 to 5 years for a smallmouth bass to reach 12 inches they are slow growing...
3. Every time some one want to try to justifty keeping fish they say they are stunted....
4.There is to many people keeping them now....
.
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What's your opinion of Mantua. Pineview seems to have reached a good balance with the Tigers, do you agree? [crazy] Leaky
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[cool][#0000ff]Yes, in Pineview the tigers do seem to have a taste for smallmouth that helps keep the "teenagers" thinned out a bit. The larger fish seem to be getting bigger and more plentiful as a result of reduced competition with the smaller fish.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Not sure about Mantua. Both the younger fish and the older ones are fat and healthy. There is so much food and so much cover (weeds) that it is tougher to bring in bigger fish. But, they are there and plenty of them. Some people are keeping a large one now and then, but I suspect that more die of old age and stress of being caught and released than those who go home in a cooler. Mantua could stand some more "take home" of the smaller fish.[/#0000ff]
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4 to 5 years for a smallmouth to reach 12" ???? Where did you get that info? Maybe in Canada, not around here.
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Based on my observations, I agree!!!! Maybe 3 yrs. starting from birth at Flaming Gorge, Pineview, Jordanelle, etc. ? Anyone have any facts?
Leaky
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Look at the DWR gil net studies and the national growth rate that is where....
..
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Thanks, all of you for your responses. I would like to hear more too.
Leaky, in catching and monitoring size and age classes at Jordanelle, I am fairly confident that a smallie at the X reaches 12 inches in its 3rd yr. Bassrods may be correct about Deer Creek smallies however. They seem to grow much slower there. It would also seem to suggest something about the "stunting" issue.
TD, the current regulations at DC and the X do not restrict the harvest of small smallies in any way. What do you think would need to be done to really see a change?
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[cool][#0000ff]Simply get the word out...keep more small bass. The bassaholics have everybody so spooked about keeping ANY bass that all except the happy harvesters are afraid they will be mugged on the way to the parking lot if they keep bass.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The point was made on the current Starvation thread that DWR actually gill nets the smaller members of the top predator category (walleyes) in order to maintain a healthier balance. Smallmouths work the same way. Too many actively feeding youngsters disproportionately deplete the food resources.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Spread the word...small bass are fun and are good to eat. They are also legal. They would not be legal to catch and keep if that adversely affected the overall population. DWR will make changes in the management as necessary.[/#0000ff]
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I personally take a limit of bass whenever I can get them, if the regs allow it. The regs are in place for a reason. If it works, go for it. All except a couple select fisheries in Tooele County. Them ones are C&R only, at least for me.
Bass are my favorite freshwater fish to eat, so I eat them. I'd hate to say it, too, but for me, atleast, bigger fish are better eating.
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I find some of these posts nothing more than laughable. Bassrods used fishhogs and poachers in the same sentence. What is your definition of a "Fishhog". Obviously you think they are different?????
Let me guess, a fish hog is a person who keeps a few fish as per the regulations. If I am wrong please accept my apology.
I am sure most mean well BUT, if someone follows the regulations, and keeps a few fish, what is the big deal????
Complain to the DWR about regulations!
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I have to agree with cadresults. I have only lived in Utah since 2001, before that I lived in Texas for years, New Orleans for several years, and was raised in Alabama. I have seen lots of waters ruined by total catch and release. Gibbons Creek in Texas is a classic example. Ecosystems are not little closed systems that we can build a wall around and expect them to just flourish.
I have been fishing for bass my whole life. I keep fish when it is legal most times. Some lakes I don't. I won't keep a lmb on Lake Powell, because we are always fishing tournaments there. If it is a nice sized bass (ie something in the 5 lb or bigger range), I won't keep it even if it is legal. NOW, little 12 inchers that make good fillets, I say keep them.
Everyone made a big deal about the founder of BASS saying he keeps and eats bass. Same thing here. We need to be careful of the habitat and of the populations, but a NO HARVEST ANYWHERE ANYTIME is an unrealistic way to manage a fishery. Ask someone like Wayne Gustavason ( www.wayneswords.com) the marine biologist for Lake Powell. He is way more qualified to discuss this than me, I am a dumb chemical engineer. Not a biologist.
I know Wayne keeps begging for people to harvest stripers and other fish in Lake Powell to prevent an overrun. And he probably knows more about fish management than all of us put together. That reinforces what I have seen myself in the south, for some lakes harvesting is good. Especially smaller fish that are upsetting the food cycle and the balance.
My 39 cents worth into the mix!!!
BMac2
Barry McCormick
www.anglingutah.com
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Well I am glad that you like to put words in my mouth that I didn't say thanks....
The first year bass is 3 to 4 inches.....On Jordanelle .....
You who fish there and start catching those 3 and 4" bass in July and August are saying they are this years hatch?
Come on::::
And the perch and chubs that is two to three inches in June July that the bass are spitting up when you catch some of the bigger fish are this years FRY wake up that was last years.....
I just can't believe that you don't know how fast they grow....
And how big of fish does a bass or trout of 20" or bigger have to eat to (just )maintain its weight?????
On lakes like Jordanelle, If every one that fishes for bass keeps a limit of bass each time as close to the cities that Jordanelle is what would it be like????
The death rate of hooked and badly handled fish can and do take out a few fish, And the poachers take a lot more then most want to say....
This year I have turned in 7 poachers and all was found guilty....
I am NOT saying that you should not keep fish, Or should not keep bass on some lakes, What Im saying is if you want to keep them help to get the DWR to restock like they do the trout.......
But stop assuming the fish are stunted just because you can't catch any big ones all the time......
.
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Hey Cliffie , I agree with ya on the sizes and age . Perch from the spawn this year will be only around 1" in length before the ice hits at 8 months old . I seen this many times in the late fall as some surface to die . So a 2" to 3" perch is prevous year hatch at about 1+ year old . Not hard for me to believe .
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Ohboyohboyohboy,now the war of words is gonna take another tack.
Can't we just swap fishing spots, tactics & cameraderie and leave all this sniping in the trashcan?
I'll turn a poacher in every time I see one & hope all my fellow BFTers will too.
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You are exactly right about the perch. The 3 inchers that are so abundant at the X right now are from the 2005 hatch and are currently about 16 months old.
The subject of regulations has come up a couple of times. Let me say that IMO, by and large, the DWR does a good job in managing our fisheries and they have my complete confidence. I am confident that they will tighten regulations if true overharvest is occurring. However, I would also point out my original question #3, that if the culture of bassers is that harvest is uniformly unacceptable, then it doesn't matter what the regulations are, no harvest will take place.
Next, Bassrods is as outspoken and as militant as they come, and has taken some criticism here, but his sentiment is VERY common among bassers I know and I am glad he responded as he did. (It doesn't neccesarily mean I agree however.)
Finally, some of my own opinion on Jordanelle and DC. As I fish these regularly, I feel that Jordanelle is well balaced right now and has a nice ratio of small to larger fish. I also see a fair amount of legal bass harvest there from weekend warriors fishing for perch and "whatever bites". I don't think there is any stunting at all. I also know very well that there are other factors that make Jordanelle special. My opinion is that regs are fine and no "extra" harvest is needed. In fishing DC, I, in all honesty, believe that there is major stunting of the smallies and that this place really needs some harvest. The slow growth rates bear this out. I do get nice ones on occasion, but the enormous numbers of small fish that seem to grow very little from year class to year class really suggests harvest would be beneficial. I don't see a lot of harvest of the fish there either. And I am not a "happy harvester" of bass as stated at the outset. This is opinion however and I found the varying comments helpful and interesting.
Thanks all and tight lines. (I think I will head to the X now).
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Wel,-----------, for me, for whatever that's worth, there has been a fair amount of information, maybe general, and a lot of opinions and comments. Non of it has been out of line, in my opionion, even bassrods.[sly] No, I mean it! He has his views and they ain't bad. I don't think he wants to impose his beliefs on us without do consideration. If we don't agree, fine , just consider em. I guess, for me, it comes down to conscientiouseness, common sense, and the dwr to regulate properly. Most of us who fish a lot, or post on this forum, can be osbservant, and adjust as necessary to the paticular fishing water and for a big part that's who reads these forums. A prime example - is I've been doing some fishing in the west desert and have found some "spots" that I would never, never, keep any because the location just could not stand it!!!! The rest, ------, well we have to rely on the dwr and those of us who have the gumption to turn in the abusers. These posts aren't going to change many minds.
I just want to say, that again, for the most part (my opinion) those that read and post on this forum are a minor impact to the fishery and for the life of me, I don't see what the heck is wrong with keeping a few for a great meal for the wife and kids (just the wife in my case) once in a while as long as you don't stick em in the freezer and then throw em away or worse yet, dump em. [mad] Come on, let's deal with things that are more important and mean something in the bigger scheme or life and not waste ou time on the piddly stuff!!!
Leaky
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Bass are Toys, and Trout are food. Its unbelieveable the amount of Evilness that is being spread. Free the Bass[ ]
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Hey Leaky I agree with you on most every point except one.
[size 1]"I just want to say, that again, for the most part (my opinion) those that read and post on this forum are a minor impact to the fishery "[/size]
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[size 1]I so disagree with that statement. At one time several years ago that was true. It no longer is today. This board and the BFT members have a bigger impact on the states fisheries than Doug Miller did. If you doubt this go to any Sportsmens or Cabelas and ask in the fishing dept. Better yet go visit the DWR on North Temple and ask them if they ever heard of BFT. It's a mixed bag that you will get back.[/size]
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[size 1]I for one know what posting about a pristeen water can do to that water. So now I am more careful, and spend a couple of weekends cleaning up a lake that never needed it until I posted it here. Don't take that, that I think our members trash the waters they fish on. I don't! I have fished with too many BFTers to think that. But we are not the only users of this board.[/size]
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[size 1]So my suggestion is when you find someplace special keep it close to your chest. Share it with friends and other members through PMs or verbally. We really have more of an impact than most members think,[/size]
[size 1]PS dont take this as a flame it wasn't ment to be, just information.[/size]
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I stand corrected, especially for those small, pristeene, undiscovered fishing spots. Over the last 2-3 yrs. now I have found a few and gaurd em with my life. All other areas I only share info. on specific areas of a pond/lake via pm now. Far too many lurkers that don't have any desire to earn their way or share!!!!!! I guess I was thinking about some of the bigger fisheries like Strwberry, the Gorge, Ut. Lake, etc.
Leaky
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