Hooks - big fish - small fish - and stolen thread

[Scruffy_Fly]

From a high jacked thread about tying thread I copied this.
Fly Goddess posted the following after I mumbled stuff about leaving hooks in fish. Plus I stated that river fish were smaller than lake fish.

[size 1]Ask the DNR
Q. In its statements on catch-and-release, the DNR says it's better to leave a deeply im-bedded hook in a fish's mouth and cut the line than to rip the hook out. The hook will supposedly dissolve. But how do biologists know this? en
A. There is no existing scientific research on the topic, but DNR fisheries biologists have observed fish surviving with hooks in various stages of "being dissolved" in their bodies. And many anglers have caught fish with a partially dissolved hook in its gut.
Many variables determine how fast the hook will dissolve, and if the fish will survive at all. These include hook location (throat, stomach, mouth, etc.), hook size, fish size, temperature (most reactions occur faster at higher temperatures, so a hook would probably dissolve faster in the summer than in the winter). A hook in the mouth may dissolve, but it could also work loose and fall out. A hook in the mouth might hamper feeding behavior, but only temporarily.
A hook in the gill, however, will almost always prove fatal because it interrupts the respiratory process before it gets a chance to dissolve. Hooks in the stomach will nearly always dissolve, if internal organs have not received life-threatening damage from the hook (such as during a fight between fish and angler).
How long does it take for a hook to dissolve? Again there are lots of variables, such as hook size and fish size. DNR fisheries biologists estimate that it would take roughly two to three weeks for an ?average? hook to be dissolved by the ?average? fish?without too much indigestion.

[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]That is what I found. Now 28 to 32 is nothing. As far as abscessed, no clue, have never heard or seen it to be a problem.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
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[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Now as far as fish in rivers being smaller, I think it is more location. There are MONSTERS in the lower not to mention the 28" brown I caught in the Madison.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I practice safe catch and release religiously, which means: wet your hands before even touching the fish, keep it in the water or very quick on the out take. Revive the fish totally (which can be quick or very slow, the 20 minutes I talked about was a quick land, but maybe temp, age and overall health of the fish required the full revival) and avoid gills at all cost. Even in the picture of the 34" might look like I am gilling her, my fingers are bent and cradled the jaw.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Fishing is a blood sport, like it or not. Anytime you HOOK a fish you have effected it's life span. You can do all the right things to ensure the LEAST amount of damage, but no guarantees.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Exceptions to the rule: THE FISH OF A LIFE TIME and got to have the pictures, knowing fully well that it is killing the fish to some degree, therefore...a blood sport.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
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[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]The private pond owner has the right idea. First off, is his pond generating oxygen into the water? Fish in the ponds, take a pounding and get caught several times in their life. By doing what he asks, they will get bigger and bigger and says that they can adapt to being caught.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]The fungus appears on a lot of the big fish in the Lower Provo which gets pounded hard. Mostly see it around the fall. The fungus can also be from various things, getting hooked on a regular basis and handled is certainly one, but stress from spawning can contribute AND DIGGING FOR REDS also. Plus who knows what else.[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Dude, I am digging this so much, keep going! I love reading your posts. RIGHT ON AND TIGHT LINES[/size][/black][/font][size 1]
[/size][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]FG[/size][/black][/font][size 1] [/size]
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[Scruffy_Fly]

Fly Goddess,
Thanks for digging up the info from the DNR. I have not caught many fish with stuff hanging off of them or around them. I have left hooks in in the fins of fish in their hides from fowl hooking or in their mouths. Some times I find that the debarbing of the hook by smashing the barb down leaves a corner or the end of the barb not laying against the hook. Thus the hook hangs in the fish so it gets to keep it unless his mouth is pretty well filled with fur and feather.

Yes, there are large fish in rivers. But as a general rule fish are smaller in rivers due to the fact that they always have to fight a current constantly which also makes them stronger for their size. For fish to get large in rivers there has to be places for the fish to spend most of its time out of the stronger currents but still be able to feed.

I was wondering about that large fish you were holding. I noticed those finger behind the gill plate. But I came to the conclusion that your fingers probably were not in the gills.

I hate that name blood sport. Blood and sport just does not seem to go well together in my head. But your are correct that is what we do.
I just prefer, as many of us do, you included, prefer to keep the fish around as long as possible to help provide us the enjoyment of being in the hunt, figuring out the nuances of the environment, and being out in beautiful country.

With Digital cameras I think we all are becoming more enamored with getting pictures of fish than what we should.

But it certainly is better to take a picture and release the fish while hoping for its best as opposed to putting it on the wall. At least if the fish does die it goes back to enriching the environment which helps the bugs which helps other fish.

By the way, FG, I also find your posts informative and interesting.
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[Scruffy_Fly]

DryRod,

You said that hooks don't dissolve in a fish but rust away not dissolve away. Thanks for the info.

It is probably so but I don't get to concerned with the technical terminology when it is not crucial for the discussion and I know what the other person is trying to mean.

There certainly is plenty of oxygenated water around a fish’s mouth. One would not think that there would be much of any acid in a fish’s mouth acting on a hook. So you would think that majority of action on the hook is oxidation. Not sure where I was really headed with this paragraph so I will let it end here.
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[Dryrod]

[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3][cool]Hey there Scruffy_Fly I would think that the part of the hook that is going to deteriorate would be that section which is in the flesh. Hooks laying in the water take a real long time to disintegrate. I guess that I will have to do an inhouse experiment. That is by placing a fly hook in a container of water to see how long it remains intact. Don't hold your breath waiting for the results. Question do I leave it outside in the sun or shade. Any one have a gold fish at home to use in a test? LMAO[/size][/green][/font]
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