How do you attach a dropper?

[bioman]

When you fish with two (or more) flies, how do you attach your dropper? Do you tie it to the hook of the attractor or do you leave the tag end long on the tippett and tie it on there? I ususally tie it to the hook of the attractor because I get less tangles with it.
[signature]

[flygoddess]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]To your questions: YES[laugh][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I mean I do both, plus my "Y" connection.[/size][/black][/font]
[signature]

[Scruffy_Fly]

FG,
When and Why do you use both - long tag end off the eye, tieing a point fly off the bend of the hook.

Don't for get to talk about your "Y" connection.

when and why the "Y" as opposed to one of the other two.
Do you make both of the legs of the "Y" the same length?


I tie my point fly onto the bend of the hook mostly. Hopper Copper Dropper fashion. don't do all three that often.

When do nymphs only I generally have a heavy larger fly like a copper john (my johns are quite heavy [angelic]) as the lead nymph with a smaller nymph or emerger tied about 9 inches behind the copper john. This smaller nymph generally is not weighted. If I need more weigh getting things down I will add weight about 6" to 18" above the Copper john. If I am not hanging up or hitting bottom still I will try a small weight between the two flys.


When doing two dry flys I flit back and forth between tying on the bend and tying another piece of tippet on the eye of the hook.
[signature]

[flygoddess]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]On rivers, I love to fish the fast waters. I use the off the bend when I am pretty certain that they are going to take the dropper. I do this with the split shot/indicator and dry/emerger or nymph. In fast waters, the fly and line can get caught in the movement of the water and spin, that is why the off the bend is the more usefull.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] If I am fishing tail waters in to pools, I use the tag off the eye to give both flies a natural swim. Actually, in most cases I tie the first fly or Dry on the leader/tippet, then I attach a piece of tippet 3" to 6" up from that fly with a 12" to 20" tag. Tie the nymph or emerger to that.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Specially in two scud rigs, I attach 2' to 4' (depending on how deep I want it to go) of tippet to my leader of usually 7 1/2'. Thread the first flie, slide it up to or past the material connection, make a loop, pass the fly throught the center of the loop twice, then tighten trying to keep the loop small, then I tie the second fly on the end of the tippet.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] Stillwater, I only use the "Y" connection with minimal tangling. Even when using a dry / nymph on stillwater I use this, just make one side of the "Y" inches and the nymph in feet.[/size][/black][/font]
[signature]

[Scruffy_Fly]

[reply]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]On rivers, I love to fish the fast waters. I use the off the bend when I am pretty certain that they are going to take the dropper. I do this with the split shot/indicator and dry/emerger or nymph. In fast waters, the fly and line can get caught in the movement of the water and spin, that is why the off the bend is the more usefull.[/size][/black][/font] ------ [#ff0000]I am not visualizing how off the eye or the bend is going to make a difference here. I do mostly off the bend in fast waters myself.[/#ff0000] [#ff0000]----------
[/#ff0000][font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]If I am fishing tail waters in to pools, I use the tag off the eye to give both flies a natural swim. [/size][/black][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]------------[/size][/black][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][#ff0000][size 3]I tend to do this also but the trueth is I have never been able to validate that it makes any difference at all.[/size][/#ff0000][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]------------[/size][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Actually, in most cases I tie the first fly or Dry on the leader/tippet, then I attach a piece of tippet 3" to 6" up from that fly with a 12" to 20" tag. Tie the nymph or emerger to that.[/size][/black][/font] ----------- [#ff0000]The other day for the first time I tied a seperate piece of tippet about 9 inches above the fly, size 14 dry, tied at the end of my leader/tippet. This seperate piece of tippet was about 9 inches long. I tied a size 24 dry to it.[/#ff0000] [#ff0000]The small midge dry and tippet kept getting wrapped around the other tippet with the size 14 fly.[/#ff0000] [#ff0000]i was not impressed with this. I am thinking i will try it with your suggested 12" to 20" tippet length and see how I like it.[/#ff0000] [#ff0000][/#ff0000] [#ff0000]Before I have tie seperate pieces of short tippet to the other fly and not had big problems with tangling.[/#ff0000] -------------
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Specially in two scud rigs, I attach 2' to 4' (depending on how deep I want it to go) of tippet to my leader of usually 7 1/2'. Thread the first flie, slide it up to or past the material connection, make a loop, pass the fly throught the center of the loop twice, then tighten trying to keep the loop small, then I tie the second fly on the end of the tippet.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Stillwater, I only use the "Y" connection with minimal tangling. Even when using a dry / nymph on stillwater I use this, just make one side of the "Y" inches and the nymph in feet.[/size][/black][/font] [/reply]
[signature]

[eBob]

[reply]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]To your questions: YES[laugh][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I mean I do both, plus my "Y" connection.[/size][/black][/font]

[font "Comic Sans MS"]"me too."

Which is to say, when I get lazy (most of the time) and/or the action, or more usually the lack thereof, suggests to me to try a 2-fly presentation then I will typically tie on my "dropper" leaving a long tag end for the point fly. I don't like this presentation as I think the lead to the point fouls in the "dropper".

Sometimes I feel that I can afford to spend more time working up a decent "cast" (as the British like to call it). So I build a loop in the (extra long) tippet. I usually use a Perfection Knot for this, and I leave the tag end long. Then I tie my point fly to the end of the tippet. I then take a piece of tippet material one or two sizes heavier than the tippet that has the loop and the point fly. I make a Perfection Knot in one end and use the loop-to-loop technique to hang this off the existing loop in the "real" tippet. I then tie the "dropper" to the other end of this leg. This leg is about 1/2 as long as the distance from the loop knot to the point fly, never more than 40-50cm (16-20") and never less than about 15cm (6").

Why build the leg from a material that's heavier than the "real" tippet? It helps to make the "dropper" stand off from the lay of the rest of the leader/tippet, making a nice "Y" connection.

What flies do I use for dropper(s) and points? It depends. In the situations that I usually find myself using 2 flies, I will typically use a weighted nymph on the point and an unweighted (or very lightly weighted) nymph or wet fly as the dropper. Sometimes, I will use a high floating dry fly as the dropper (where it acts as a strike indicator, too) and an unweighted (or very lightly weighted) nymph or wet fly as the point. Very occasionally, I will reverse the first style, with the heavier fly in the forward ("dropper") position and the lighter fly on the point. Also, very occasionally, I will use a weighted fly as the dropper and put a "dry" fly on the point, letting the weighted fly pull the dry fly under. In these 2 latter cases, the point fly rises up like an emerger and can often really take a beating, which is, of course, the whole point of the thing.

PS: Terminology that I use - the point fly is the one that's "furthest out" in the pair of flies, the dropper is the one that's closer up to the fly line

PPS: I never bother with more than 2 flies because I've only been doing this for about 25 years and my casting still sucks - but I catch fish so I don't care <<G>>

[black][size 3]
[/size][/black][/font][/reply]
[signature]

[flygoddess]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Have you noticed that when you fish with the dropper off the bend, that more than likely the fish hit the dropper (not always but more regularly). When I fish a dry with the dropper off the bend, I catch 10 to 1 on the dropper. I can't help but think that the dropper effects the way the first fly floats. By tying first fly off a small tag or even a loop in the line like I said, it takes on it's own movement as well as the dropper. I experimented with this and I do get more hits on the tagged first fly then on the bend rig.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Down side to my experience with the off the bend, is having interested fish check out the first fly only to turn and get snagged on second. I guess it could happen with the tag rig also, but I haven't yet.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Plus de-barbbed hooks are trick at times with that off the bend dropper.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]As a second part of you first question, is to keep it simple so as not to tangle to much. Off the bend or very short tag, or off the line all together. No loose ends to wrap around each other.[/size][/black][/font]
[signature]

[Scruffy_Fly]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][font "Verdana"].........................[/font]
PPS: I never bother with more than 2 flies because I've only been doing this for about 25 years and my casting still sucks - but I catch fish so I don't care <<G>>

[black][size 3]
[/size][/black][/font] [/reply]
[/reply]
[signature]

[flygoddess]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]eBob, sorry I just repeated you, I guess I need to use the scroll button more.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I think you and I are on the same page all around.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]As far as the two fly thing, That is all that is legally permitted here (maximum I should say), so that's as many as I will ever try. I personally like the one fly and knock em dead approach, but sometimes you gotts try two different ones to key in on where and what they want.[/size][/black][/font]
[signature]

[Scruffy_Fly]

[reply]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Have you noticed that when you fish with the dropper off the bend, that more than likely the fish hit the dropper (not always but more regularly). When I fish a dry with the dropper off the bend, I catch 10 to 1 on the dropper.[/size][/black][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]--------------------[/size][/black][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][#0000ff][size 3]When the dropper is a nymph that makes sense since the fish feed more on the nymphs. Many times it is like that but there are many times that it is more like 6 or 7 to 1.[/size][/#0000ff][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][#0000ff][size 3]On rare occasions it has been the dry a majority of the time. Now this is stream fishing I am talking about. I have done very little lake fishing.[/size][/#0000ff][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]--------------------------------[/size][/black][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3] I can't help but think that the dropper effects the way the first fly floats. By tying first fly off a small tag or even a loop in the line like I said, it takes on it's own movement as well as the dropper. I experimented with this and I do get more hits on the tagged first fly then on the bend rig.[/size][/black][/font] ----------------------------- [#ff0000]When doing this with two dry flys I can not say that. It varies. There have been a good number of times that the fly hanging off the hook bend gets bitten more often. But I can say that when I first get the two flys tied on I think that the lead fly is going to get more of the hits. The presentage is a little better in the lead flys advantage [/#ff0000] [#ff0000][/#ff0000] [#ff0000]There was one time on the Arkansas river at the end of the Mother's day Hatch that I had a large Klinkhammer special tied as a lead fly and small dry fly caddis trailing behind. For about an hour and a half the browns where hitting only the kinkhammer. Then for about half hour or 45 minutes I could not buy a fish except a rare hit on the klink or the caddis. Then for about an hour it was only the caddis they would hit. Then it was nothing at all.[/#ff0000] [#ff0000]But there are many times that I use a large bushy fly as the lead fly so that I can quickly spot the dry fly hanging off the bend of the hook. In these cases I am doing this because the fly I have hanging off the bend of the hook is a very small fly or hard to see in the lighting conditions. [/#ff0000] -------------------------------
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Down side to my experience with the off the bend, is having interested fish check out the first fly only to turn and get snagged on second. I guess it could happen with the tag rig also, but I haven't yet.[/size][/black][/font] ---------------------- [#008000]I have very little experience with that happening with a dry and a dropper nymph. I have that happen maybe once an outing when fishing two nymphs. I have never figured out for sure whether the fish is sucking in the leading fly and spitting it out before I sett the hook and then catch him in side with the trailing hook or whether I am pulling it out of his mouth before he can eject it and then catching him in the side.[/#008000] [#008000][/#008000] [#008000]One down side I have had happen on occasion with having the trailing fly coming off of the bend of the hook is that the tippet has slid off the end of the hook.[/#008000] [#008000][/#008000] [#008000]I will have to try the dropper coming off a loop in the tippet going form the leader to the main fly.[/#008000] ------------------------
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Plus de-barbbed hooks are trick at times with that off the bend dropper.[/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]As a second part of you first question, is to keep it simple so as not to tangle to much. Off the bend or very short tag, or off the line all together. No loose ends to wrap around each other.[/size][/black][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][size 3]----------------[/size][/font] [font "Comic Sans MS"][#500028][size 3]I have thought about using a very short tag off the point fly tippet but obviously never done it.[/size][/#500028][/font] [/reply]
[signature]

[flygoddess]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Thanks Scruffy for the good reading. Very interesting and well put.[/size][/black][/font]
[signature]

[Dryrod]

[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]I seldom use the tandem hookup so my expertise is limited. I always thought that the dropper was the trailing fly in the setup. I wondered about attaching the trailing tippet to the bend of the first fly’s hook. Would think that it would interfere with a fiche’s ability to take the fly straight on. Under this impression true or not, I prefer to use a surgeons knot to tap a tippet onto the leader. On the leader’s tab end goes my first fly and on the tippet maybe 12 to 18” past the first fly I attach my dropper or what ever one wants to call the second fly in the tandem. Any one ever use this setup?[/size][/green][/font]
[signature]

[Scruffy_Fly]

[reply]
[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]I seldom use the tandem hookup so my expertise is limited. I always thought that the dropper was the trailing fly in the setup. I wondered about attaching the trailing tippet to the bend of the first fly’s hook. Would think that it would interfere with a fiche’s ability to take the fly straight on. [/size][/green][/font] [font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]----------[/size][/green][/font] [font "Poor Richard"][#ff0000][size 3]Many people think that but it does not seem to be a problem. I don't know that a person could ever prove it one way or the other.[/size][/#ff0000][/font] [font "Poor Richard"][#008000][size 3]-------------[/size][/#008000][/font] [font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Under this impression true or not, I prefer to use a surgeons knot to tap a tippet onto the leader. On the leader’s tab end goes my first fly and on the tippet maybe 12 to 18” past the first fly I attach my dropper or what ever one wants to call the second fly in the tandem. Any one ever use this setup?[/size][/green][/font] [font "Poor Richard"][#008000][size 3]----------- [/size][/#008000][/font] [font "Poor Richard"][#0000ff][size 3]
Some people do that. Some say it is better that putting tippet onto the bend of the hook. Lots of opinions on how to do it but there is only one persons anecdotal evidence against another persons anecdotal evidence. All the methods work.[/size][/#0000ff][/font] [/reply]
[signature]

[Dryrod]

[center][font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3][cool]Amen to that.[/size][/green][/font][/center] [center] [/center]
[signature]

[Kurve]

i have a question for you guys who are experianced fly fishermen.

Im going to be tubing in a lake and im thinking about doing the hopper - dropper or dry fly dropper method which ever it is called. Curious to exactly how it should be rigged i heard people saying tie it to the hook of the first fly or tie it to the tag (tag is that the eye hole of the first fly??) Which would be best for a lake and what kind of knot should i use to attach the second tippet with fly onto the first? Thanx in Advance!
[signature]

[Dryrod]

[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Hi Kurve - I too fish lakes/reservoirs & would be inclined to use stimulator dry fly with a trailing nymph. I tie mine onto the tab end using a surgeon’s loop. I sure others will have a different setup that they would prefer.[/size][/green][/font]
[font "Poor Richard"][#008000][size 3][/size][/#008000][/font]
[signature]

[Dryrod]

[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Do we have a mystery writter here or did someone forget to sign in? How about you guest? If you have yet to register please take a moment and click on the word Register at the bottom of my post. Doesn't cost a cent and you can pick your own handle.[/size][/green][/font]
[signature]

[lunkerhunter2]

He/she has been asked before and did not respond. I am not sure why he/she is hiding under the "guest". It would be nice to put a name to the reports and responses. "Guest frequents the Idaho board from what i have seen. Some people would rather stay out of the game.
[signature]

[Scruffy_Fly]

okay, okay, okay,

I confess it was me.
[signature]

[Dryrod]

[cool][font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Okay so now go to your room. Better yet go fishing[/size][/green][/font].
[signature]