Downrigger Help

[icing_perch]

I am thinking of purchasing some manual downriggers and wondering which kind most people use, recommended weight on the balls, best length on the arms, distance behind the ball to run the lures/bait? Mostly I will be trolling lakes like Echo, Strawberry and possibly Starvation on occasion. I already have some Cabelas downrigger rods in 7 1/2 -8 1/2 foot lengths with Abu Garcia 5500 or 6500 reels on them. I have 20 and 30 pound Power Pro line on them now. Would this line work or is there a different type of line you guys recommend. I lucked out and got a boat for fairly cheap this year and my wife found a tackle box at a thrift store with over $500 worth of trout and kokanee type trolling lures for $20 dollars, so want to put them to use. In Alaska I did a lot of trolling with pop gear with a 1/2-1 oz barrel weight in front of it and did well with crawler harnesses. Just want to try and get some kokes this year and hopefully some bigger browns. Any help on these questions would be greatly appreciated.
[signature]

[bkidder]

youve asked a lot of good questions here. im sure it will take a while for you to find the answers youre looking for in full. and even longer to put your own twist on things and find what you are comfortable with. i'd be glad to give you my opinions on the subject!

personally, i like the cannon sport trolls for manuals. i used a gimbal mount and had a swivel when i used them. they also have a good clamp on mount for that rigger. ive since upgraded, but have been able to keep basically the same mounts. what kind of boat do you have? this will determine what kind of downrigger you can use. also, it will determine the length of boom ("arm") you need.

weight of the ball will be determined by your own preference. if you dont mind pulling the heavy weight up, id go with a ten. if you do mind, then go with an 8#. the heavier the weight, the less "blowback" which means your weight drags and doesnt go straight down. this means youre not as deep as you think you are. downrigging is about precision depth control, its important to know how deep you are. go with a fish shape, or pancake... they drag much less than a ball weight.

i never use braided line for kokes, i use flourocarbon or mono. if you do use braid, be sure you have a good drag. this will make up for the lack of give in that braid. kokes mouths can be torn easily, so keep your drag looser than normal. some people use snubbers, which may not be a bad idea if youre using braid. i would at least use a flouro, or mono leader to negate the visibility factors of the braid.

distance behind the weight varies too. if im fishing with my weight less than 20 feet down, i like to put my lure back a ways to get away from motor noise. if im fishing deeper, i move it closer to the weight. motor noise isnt an issue once you get down deep. fishing close to the weight has its advantages, but only when youre deep. one advantage is that you can make tighter turns without tangling lines. another advantage is that you can hook your heavy lake trolls to the weight and then run your lure a few feet behind that. (off of a stacker release connected to the cable a few feet above the weight)

your worm harnesses will work for kokanee and browns, but their are more effective lures out there. what did your tackle box include?

think flourescent for kokes. glows are great too. there will be tons of kokanee manufacturers at the international sportsmans expo in salt lake. you should consider going there for info on downriggers and lures! if you do go, check out the Rocky Mountain Tackle and Macks Lures booth. there is a lot about kokes you can learn there! RMT's dodgers are awesome, and so are their koke lures. and, macks famous "wedding ring" has probably caught more kokanee than anything over the years!

for browns, ive had luck with rapalas, spinners, and flies. early morning and evenings have been best for me with browns. and night fishing can be decent too during a full moon.

let me know if you have any more questions, or if i wasnt clear in any way!

good luck, bkidder


one more thing... check ebay for great deals on downriggers and downrigger accessories!
[signature]

[Jedburton]

I agree with a lot of what bkider has said. Especiallly on the koke stuff. Definitely if you can use mono and something with a good drag. If you can go check out the rockymountain tackle booth at the expo make sure and do it. Jared knows more about kokanee fishing than anyone else i know. As far as lures like bkidder said florescent is good especially pink and orange. Running lures behind dodgers of some sort also helps a lot. As for the downriggers like he said as well I like the ten pound fish or pancake type weights. I was using a cannon sport troll for my manual downrigger but now have a walker electric on one side and a big john electric on the other. Also if you don't already invest some money in a good fishfinder. It will help you know what depth to run your lures. Most of all have fun and catch some good ones. kokes are definitely one of my favorite fish to catch.
Jed Burton
[signature]

[fishley]

I use big jon downrigger's and think thay are great the manual's are way better than the cannon manuals I think. I had two cannon's go to crap on me in less than a yr the gear's went out on them try geting a cannon wound back in with the small spool it take's a long time and is a pain I have used big jon's all my life and never had a problem the boom's are great becouse you can feel and see every little bounce thay take if you hit the mud if a fish hit it and the boom's will never brake I have hung them up and had them hit the side of the boat and never even put a bend in them thay are allso faster than the cannon that is only on the manual's the electri's every thing about the cannon is top's but that tree trunk boom and if thay stop working thay are a pain like I said before I allso beleave the big jon manual is a little more than the cannon but this is just my opinion good luck hope ya find what u need.FISH
[signature]

[icing_perch]

Thank you so much for all the helpful info you have given me. It is an older 17 foot v-hull fiberglass boat closed bow. It is fairly deep inside. The tackle box had a lot of needle fish spoons, some kokeanuts and small flashers. Plus a ton of spinners and other spoons. A lot of the spoons had been modified with glow paints covering one sidoe or at least a dot or 2 of glow paint on them. Alot of the worm harnesses I used in Alaska were similar to Mack's wedding ring spinners with a single hook. I have a ton of pop gear from the tiny bladesd ones designed for kokanee to the very large ford fender types. When you fish in about 20 feet of water how many feet do you recommend minimum behind the weight for your lures? Down to say 100 feet if I do make it to the Gorge for lakers and the big browns there. On the manual downriggers do they have bases that you can permanately mount to the boat and just remove the down rigger at the end of the day to lock it up and are they fairly easy to dismantle? When is the Sportsmans Expo? I am currently in the Middle Wast but will be back some time next month.
[signature]

[icing_perch]

Thanks for the added info on lure colors and the fish finder. I have a decent fish finder that I have set up for ice fishing and portable use on boats I have rented in the past. Just need to get me a spare transducer I can leave on the boat. I have a GPS unit, what speeds do you guys recommend for kokes, rainbows, browns and lakers if I do make it out to the Gorge?
[signature]

[icing_perch]

Thanks for the recommendation on the Big Jon's that is the kind of information I was wondering about. Which ones were easiest to reel in as far as manuals went. I would love to have electric, but being in the military never know where I am going to be stationed next and some places you just don't have a need for down riggers. Thanks again for the info.
[signature]

[bkidder]

75-100 feet behind the boat will work well for you. you want to get away from the motor noise. move closer to the weight as you move deeper. for 100 feet deep, i will sometimes fish as close as 5-10 feet of the weight.

the cannon sport trolls have a base that you permantly mount to the boat. the downrigger pops off and on with the push of the "tab lock" button. very quick and easy. you can also do other things, like a gimbal mount or clamp mount if your situation calls for it. let me know when youre closer to mounting time and i'll tell you what i think you should do. you'll have to ask the other guys about the other brands, ive not used other brands.

sounds like you have a good start on your trolling gear. be sure to come to the ISE show, which is march 15-18 in S.L.C. you should have no trouble getting good info and products there. like i said, check out the RMT and Macks booth for sure!
[signature]

[jacksonlaker]

All the info you have gotten so far is excellent. One thing I would add is I would'nt use braided line. If you use a clamp type release (off-shore, cannon, the ones with the sponge pads), the braided line is too thin and slipery. I like a LOT of bend in my rods, and it is really easy to pull the line out of the release by accident with braided line. 10 lb mono would be perfect for the fishing you are doing. Also dont rely on your linecounter on your downrigger. You should be able to see the ball on your fishfinder. This will tell you how deep it is.
[signature]

[Jedburton]

It kind of changes depending on time of year and what lake, but the kokes at the gorge seem to like it a little faster than most lakes (from what I understand, I am no expert). If I remember right we were trolling at 2.5-2.9 mph for them last year. At the berry I think I was haveing the most success for them a little slower at 2-2.4 miles per hour. I could be wrong on my speeds though It has been a while. Hopefully the others will chime in and tell me if I am in the right neigborhood.
jed
[signature]

[bkidder]

i troll a bit slower than jed, but speed is always changing. its amazing even on the same day how much small increments can make a difference. sometimes i'll be catching them at 1.5mph GPS and then it will shut off. then, i'll speed it up to 1.7 or so, and bang its back on. and vice versa. vary your speeds to find what works best for you. also, keep an eye on the board here as many of us will be hitting it hard, and are glad to let you know whats been working for us.

ive found that deciding a speed also depends on the lure youre using. make sure you are getting the right action on the lure by holding it over the side of the boat where you can see it working. it doesnt do you any good to be going the exact speed that all the "experts" say you should be going if your lure isnt working right!
[signature]

[bigbow81]

hey ash.... any updates on the lake? And i still haven't received the photo of that buck.

As for the koke. i have had my best success at 1.7 mph
[signature]