Tubing in Windy Conditions - your experiences?

[IrishFloatTube]

The fishing can often be better with a decent wave to stir the fish up. But how much wind can your tube take before the pleasure goes out of it? Force 3, 4, or 5? What wave height until your finning ability gets compromised by fins breaking the surface?

Is a high ride-large SFC or a H3, with "fast over the water ability" more or less windproof than a lower "not so much to catch the wind" Bullet, FC4 or ODC420 .

I trying to weigh up the following features:
>effort required to move upwind, affecting willingness to fish farther from point of launch on windy days
>irritating tracking deflections when sideways on to wind,
>ability to control downwind drift from accellerating out of hand
>cost, bulk, weight
but if anyone suggest another criteria, go ahead. []

I'm looking towards my next tube upgrade - inviting opinions ... esp if someone has experience of a few different designs over a period, or comparisons made by swopping rides with a fishing pal.

Any photos taken while tubing in windy conditions would be very interesting to see.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]As you point out, wind is a nuisance but can have its positive side as well. Some species of fish become more active and catchable when there is a bit of breeze. Many anglers over here like a bit of "fishing riffle", which breaks up the surface clarity and seems to make the fish less wary of predators. Of course, breezes often blow insects and other food into the water too, and that rings the dinner bell.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Predator species...like pike, bass, walleye and even catfish...often gather along the windward shorelines on many of our lakes during a blow. The waves smacking the shore stir up a bit of mud and also concentrate minnows and other forage. Predators with good vision and sensitive lateral lines learn that windy and muddy waters often hold disoriented and vulnerable prey.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]But, how much wind is too much? As you suggest, that can be a combination of several factors. When you combine the size and style of your craft, your personal strength and stamina, the size and type of fins you have and the force of the wind and/or currents, you will soon learn your own limitations.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Fishing from a round boat, with more of your extremities being below the water line, will create drag and lessen the pushing effects of the wind. However, it will also reduce the amount of propulsion you get with each kick of your fins. The wind does not blow you around as much as with a higher riding craft, but you also have to work harder to make any headway against the wind.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]After "graduating" from round tubes, several years ago, I first tried the "mini-pontoon" models...like the Trout Unlimited Kennebec. I loved the higher floatation...until the wind came up. The twin high-riding round-end air chambers really caught the air, even with only a mild breeze. When there was any breeze at all, control and simple fishing became impossible. I had to work like he** to maintain any kind of position if I were casting to a specific spot.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]After examining and trying several U-boats and V-boats, I upgraded to the Outcast Super Fat Cat. There were several basic design aspects that I did not like, such as the low back seat and the wimpy apron. However, I immediately fell in love with the high-ride, easy propulsion across the water and the handling of the pointed bow/stern when the breezes kicked up. I found that I could fish with my back to the wind and maintain easy position with measured kicks that kept me where I wanted to be.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Tolerance for wind, and even preference for breezes, depends upon the kind of fishing you do. If you are throwing large lures, for large fish, moving air is not as much of a problem. However, a lot of the fishing I do is "touch" fishing...presenting tiny jigs on light gear and wispy line. Success depends upon being able to feel the slightest tick or change in the "feel" of the lure on the end of the line. When a breeze comes up it affects both casting and feel. If it gets beyond the point where I can fish well, I leave the water.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In the final analysis, float tubing is not unlike flying. When aerodynamics engineers design planes, and plan for altitude, speed and fuel efficiency, they consider three factors: lift, thrust and drag. In float tubes we don't get much "lift", but propulsion and efficiency are definitely factors of thrust vs drag. Common sense should suggest that the higher you float and the more hydrodynamically/aerodynamically designed your craft, the more efficient the propulsion and control from your fins. And, the bigger and more efficient your fins...at converting leg energy into thrust...the better able you will be to withstand heavier breezes and to keep fishing longer.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I am firmly convinced that the V shape, with the upraised and pointed bow/stern, is the best design for anyone who wants good propulsion efficiency and control in the wind. I have fished from my Fat Cat for over 4 years...about 3 years longer than any other craft I have owned over several decades. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have been looking for a suitable replacement for at least two years, but have not seen anything better...until recently. I now have 2 new H3 Freestyles on the way. They have all of the positives of the Fat Cats, with some extras for a large guy like myself. The key factors, to offset the higher price, is the even higher ride and greater stability. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I will be getting our new rides tricked out, and will provide a complete item by item...feature by feature...comparison between the H3 and the Fat Cats as soon as we can get them on the water for their shakedown cruise.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]But then, what do I know about it?[/#0000ff]
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[tubeN2]

I apologize for not having any pictures but my last bout with the wind was more of a survival mode than a site seeing adventure.

On a trip around 3 years ago, I took my son on a tubing trip to one of my local lakes. At that particular lake, you have wind by 8 am or there is none at all.

We launched in glassy conditions at 6am and fished for a couple of hours before the wind kicked up.

When the wind came it was going at around 25mph with gusts up to 40.

My son was in a Caddis Uboat and got blown around something fierce. I was in the FC4 and able to make some kind of gain over the water. 40 feet in 1/2 hour.

That is alot of kicking. We were lucky that the wind will blow in the direction of the launch ramp. Otherwise, it would be a 2 mile walk back to the original launch area.

Although tubing in the wind is not advised, it is good to have some wind experience under your waders in order to safely handle yourself in the event of an unexpected windstorm emergency.

The 25 mph winds created 1foot waves. The waves were handled better in the Vcraft as opposed to the U shaped craft.[cool]
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[zonker]

Hi IFT,

Here's a running description of a wind experience I had in my Super Fat Cat about this time last year. The post was called:

[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Float_Tube_Fishing_C66/Float_Tubing_General_F81/More_Bass%21_P263794/"]More Bass![/url]

The point I made about wind in the post was that the SFC did much better than I anticipated.

While fishing in the wind is not nearly as easy as no wind or low wind, in my opinion you are better off in one of the higher riding pointed bow crafts as has been mentioned. I've owned the round and pontoon shaped float tubes before and the below water drag really slows you down.

The SFC is a fine boat. I intend to wear mine out. The new H3 looks like it is probably even better if you are a large person.

Good luck with your research.

z~
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[IrishFloatTube]

If it cuts up too rough, it can be very hard to "come back in where you prefer" as opposed to where is nearest.

In the past I have tied my wading shoes (I wear stockingfoot waders) to the outside of the tube, or alternatively, bagged my trainers in back pocket, on windy days. This in anticipation of the day when I find I have to come out at a distant location, and walk back to the launch zone / car.

So far, I haven't had to actually do that. But sometimes there has been gritted teeth, and perspiration involved in the return journey !

This has limited my tubing efforts in the bigger Irish lakes for trout, atlantic salmon, and pike. I have tended to go tubing in small lakes up to force 4/15mph winds.
But in bigger lakes of eg 3 miles x 1 mile, I have limited my tubing to force 3/10mph winds. (Using my Bucks Bags Bullet Vee-boat)

This has been mainly a comfort/enjoyment basis decision.
Lately though I have been looking at the newer type tubes and wondering if I can "widen my weather envelope" with a FC4, ODC420, or H3. On one hand they are a more accentuated vee shape, and and draw a shallower depth of water - but on the other hand I suspect they catch more wind at the same time.

Obviously I will be extremely interested in TD's review to come of his new H3 Feestyle ride.

I'm in a pretty windy country so the ability to tube comfortably in force 4/15mph winds on large waters would increase the number of tubing days in a year by a significant amount.

TubeN2 - Your comparison of the FC4 being superior to the Caddis U-boat in a strong gusty wind goes right to the heart of the matter.
It's nice that TD will be able to compare the H3 with SFC from this particular aspect.

My Bullet is pretty good in this respect, (in my opinion).
I am in a minority here in Ireland with regards to float tubing, and "normal" tubing folks anywhere are unlikely to tube in bad weather, so chances to make direct comparision with other tube rides (in bad conditions) will always be limited.

Has anyone out there taken an ODC420 or Stealthrider out on a tough day when a pal had a FC4, 420 or similar? The big water and salt water float tubers must be dealing with wind.
Any stories would be appreciated.
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[IrishFloatTube]

[reply]
Hi IFT,
Here's a running description of a wind experience I had in my Super Fat Cat about this time last year. The post was called: [url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Float_Tube_Fishing_C66/Float_Tubing_General_F81/More_Bass%21_P263794/"]More Bass![/url]

The point I made about wind in the post was that the SFC did much better than I anticipated. .... z~ [/reply]

Thanks for that link Zonker. Great report. Great days fishing.
The SFC is obviously right up there in the "windy league"

I have a hand held wind meter somewhere ... I will have to get it out, and in future add the windspeed readings to my fishing diary/log.

TBH this comes from a desire to use the tube as often as possible. I sold my boat two years ago, and its only when it "blows" that I wonder if I did the right thing.
The rest of the time, I am totally happy - tubing away.
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[jnbsigma]

I went to a reservoir last weekend with my wife and it was pretty calm on Friday but then that night the wind kicked up white caps on the water and we just waded instead of getting out on the tubes.

Saturday morning was pretty calm again so we took off and got quite a ways out before the wind started up and tried to push us out even further. We turned around and started back before it got too bad, but it was definitely blowing harder than the forcasted 5-10 mph. I would guess it was closer to 15-20 mph by the time we got back in, so not too bad, but it did make it a bit more difficult to keep a position when trying to hit a certain spot. I had to do as TD said, and fish with my back to the wind keeping a fairly steady kick. This meant having to cast sideways to the left (the direction of my 3 other poles), but it wasn't that big a deal.

When it started blowing harder we decided to just troll straight back and not stop and try to hit certain spots anymore. There were a couple of coves left to circumnavigate before we reached our camp. I was in an ODC 420 and my wife was in a Uboat 2000. On the first cove, we decided to kick straight across from point to point which was pretty slow going with harder wind, but there was less distance to cover. On the next one, we kept closer to shore and the trees helped reduce the breeze quite a bit, but there was more ground to cover. I couldn't really tell which was the better option as far as the wind goes, but I preferred staying closer to shore where the better fishing was.

As far as the tubes go, I really liked how the ODC handled. I was in a really windy situation last summer while I was also using a Uboat 2000 and the difference between the handling of the two was night and day. The V-tube outperformed the U-tube by far. Another factor, as was mentioned, was that this time I had a much bigger and more efficient pair of fins which gave me a lot more thrust per kick. My wife didn't struggle too much in her Uboat, but she weighs half of what I do so the drag wasn't as big an issue for her as it was for me. However, she was pretty worn out by the time we hit camp again.

I wasn't able to compare the ODC 420 with any other V-boats, but I know that it handles wind much better than a U-boat. I believe that the maneuverability and handling of the V-boat far outweighs the factor that it rides higher out of the water and catches more wind.
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[TubeDude]

"[size 1]Has anyone out there taken an ODC420 or Stealthrider out on a tough day when a pal had a FC4, 420 or similar? The big water and salt water float tubers must be dealing with wind.
Any stories would be appreciated. "[/size]
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[cool][blue]We are a sociable tubing bunch here in Utah, and there have been several small "floatilla" fishing trips in which there were a variety of tubes present...my SFC, at least one FC4 and an ODC 420. We have encountered light breezes to medium winds, but have never stayed out in a "perfect storm". [/blue]
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[#0000ff]I watch the other craft from a more critical perspective than most other tubers might. I have assumed the responsibility for evaluating and reviewing the various kinds of floatation craft, so I am a bit more critical than most. Happily, I can say that all of the pointy-ended tubes seem to perform well in the sloppy water. The size of the craft vs the size of the angler is probably one of the major variables. Someone under 200 pounds can do well in a Fish Cat 4, whereas someone else, with another 50 pounds of "ballast" would do better in an ODC 420 or a Fat Cat. Heavyweight tubers in lightweight tubes tend to lean backward as they kick against the wind. That causes the bow to dip lower in the water and creates more drag. But, a "middleweight" tuber, with strong kicking legs, can make a Fish Cat fly. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The ODC 420 has greater weight capacity than the FC4, but slightly less than the Fat Cats. If budget is a consideration, the ODC 420 is a good choice for heftier tubers but not as good as the Fat Cats if there is a bit more money in the budget.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

[size 1]The SFC is a fine boat. I intend to wear mine out. The new H3 looks like it is probably even better if you are a large person.
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I beg your pardon! Oh! probably better....I was going to ask if these waders made my butt look big.....ger LOL[/size][/black][/font]
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[tubeN2]

As far as Salt goes, we are luck enough to count on the off shore breeze to kick up between 2 and 4pm on a daily basis. When you can get the wind to coincide with an out going tide, you are pretty much on at a nuetral state with wind blowing in and tide going out.

The FC4 handles beautifully in the salt and handles mild swells with no problem.

The newer Pontube by Water Skeeter on the other hand, I have only taken it out 1 time and took it in the salt and purposely in the wind just to solve my curiosity of the taller crafts handling abilities.

It is just like everyone described as far as the wind goes. It sucks. Still water is still the best friend of any tube and I think it is the soul mate for the pontoons and pontubes.

Thank God the afternoon breeze always blows inshore. One is able to enjoy a nice relaxing drift to a safe area.[cool]
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[IrishFloatTube]

[reply]
.... the difference between the handling of the two was night and day. The V-tube outperformed the U-tube by far. Another factor, as was mentioned, was that this time I had a much bigger and more efficient pair of fins which gave me a lot more thrust per kick. ....My wife didn't struggle too much in her Uboat, but she weighs half of what I do so the drag wasn't as big an issue for her as it was for me. However, she was pretty worn out by the time we hit camp again. ..... I believe that the maneuverability and handling of the V-boat far outweighs the factor that it rides higher out of the water and catches more wind. [/reply]

thanks jnbsigma :
So we have
1 The size of the tuber should match the weight carrying capacity of the tube - a shallow draught tube is very important to reducing water resistence drag and making the most movement from energy expended.
2 In Wind: Vee boats beat U boats beat round boats - better streamlining is potent enough to more than compensate for the increased (Vee section) surface area that might catch wind.

[reply]
... [blue]there have been several small "floatilla" fishing trips in which there were a variety of tubes present...my SFC, at least one FC4 and an ODC 420. [/blue][blue]...[/blue][#0000ff] Happily, I can say that all of the pointy-ended tubes seem to perform well in the sloppy water. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]...The size of the craft vs the size of the angler is probably one of the major variables. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]... Heavyweight tubers in lightweight tubes tend to lean backward as they kick against the wind. That causes the bow to dip lower in the water and creates more drag. But, a "middleweight" tuber, with strong kicking legs, can make a Fish Cat fly. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]...[#0000ff]The ODC 420 has greater weight capacity than the FC4, but slightly less than the Fat Cats. If budget is a consideration, the ODC 420 is a good choice for heftier tubers but not as good as the Fat Cats if there is a bit more money in the budget.[/#0000ff] [/reply]


TD: There's a mine of information in that []
So I suppose we confirm all of the info above and also add:

3 Fitness, stamina, training, finning technique however you wish to put it ... let's say tubing technique and practise - contributes when the conditions are not as good as we would like.

It is becoming very clear that for every float tuber, the "best tube" is based very much on themselves, and what suits their personal circumstances.

[reply]
... The FC4 handles beautifully in the salt and handles mild swells with no problem.
... The newer Pontube by Water Skeeter on the other hand, I have only taken it out 1 time and took it in the salt and purposely in the wind just to solve my curiosity of the taller crafts handling abilities.
It is just like everyone described as far as the wind goes. It sucks. Still water is still the best friend of any tube ... [/reply]


Thx TubeN2: So for windy conditions - pontoons are not the way to go ... toons are best for distance / speed in low wind ... for the wind it's all down to vee tubes. And the manufacturers more recent efforts seem to be the best answer so far for the windy day.

To follow up a bit more on the fins - I am using Deep See fins myself right now, and they are pretty stiff utilising most of my strength so I've no complaints there. Force Fins might be a bit more efficient, providing more motion for a similar level of energy expended. This would be more important on marginal days.

Possible the next factor is
4 Fin choice ... another important area that affects performance.

So - just wondering? would I be right in saying that most serious tubers who cover distance - go out in stronger winds - have gotten Force Fins?
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[jnbsigma]

From what I've read by way of [url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=39911;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread"]reviews[/url], Force Fins are NOT the way to go. I bought myself some that were being clearanced at Cabelas for $75 right before I read that review and never even took 'em in the water. I turned around and sold them to someone else on ebay for $100 [angelic] and bought myself a $50 pair of Mares Plana Avanti x3's which I love. That's after having read several other reviews of them. They are a bigger fin that are rigid on the outside with a softer middle to cup the water on both the up and down kick.
[inline "Mares Plana Avanti x3.png"]
It was really easy to tell that they move more water and are much more efficient than some others I tried before. I imagine others on here with more experience could offer more insight than I could, however.
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[IrishFloatTube]

That was an interesting review. So much for the hype. Not Force then ....
I wonder how my Deep See Explorers rate in the world scuba fin rankings then? I like them, have them many years, and wouldn't be inclined to change unless there were a positive improvement to be gained by an upgrade.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Some people swear BY Force Fins. Some swear AT them. I tried a pair for about two hours on one trip and went ashore to change back to my Mares diving fins. To me they did not propel me nearly as well and they fit badly, no matter how I adjusted them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I think many tubers buy fins based upon availability and price, rather than properly researching the subject and buying what they really need. Then...once they own some fins, they defend their decision passionately, and will not budge to buy better fins, even when they know they blew it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have been buying and trying fins for over 50 years...both for diving and tubing. I have worn a lot of fins both under and over the water. I know what works best for me, but for others it might be something entirely different. Physical size and conditioning are factors...as are the types of water and fishing you will be exposed to.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Bigger is not always better. You can overpower yourself with fins that are too big. They will whup you. And, if you have small wimpy fins, you will have to work harder to get the same amount of propulsion you would get from larger fins.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here is a link to the thread on fins...[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=198689;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread"]ON THE PICTURE BOARD[/url]. There are pictures of some of the models I have gone through during the years. I am also attaching a few pages from my book on float tubing, that highlights some of the issues with fins.[/#0000ff]
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[zonker]

[reply]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I beg your pardon! Oh! probably better....I was going to ask if these waders made my butt look big.....ger LOL[/size][/black][/font] [/reply]

[cool][cool][cool]I think I'll just exit the building and leave this one alone.

[pirate]z~
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[zonker]

_______________________________________________________
[black][size 1]Several posts above said:[/size][/black]
[black][size 1][/size][/black]
[black][size 1]>>>It is becoming very clear that for every float tuber, the "best tube" is based very much on themselves, and what suits their personal circumstances. [/size][/black]
[black][size 1][/size][/black]
[black][size 1]And...[/size][/black]

[black][size 1]>>>I think many tubers buy fins based upon availability and price, rather than properly researching the subject and buying what they really need. Then...once they own some fins, they defend their decision passionately, and will not budge to buy better fins, even when they know they blew it.[/size][/black]
_______________________________________________________

I think this is a big factor. I too have noticed that some believe that the best there is happens to be the one they own and they will diligently defend it to the death. (That's just human nature, I believe.)

Personal preference is not a thing to ignore - in yourself or in others. For instance, I know tooners who think tubers are daffy to own a tube when a toon travels so much faster with its oars. Yet on windy days I've continued with "hands free fishing" in my tube when the tooners have all gone back to the launch because they couldn't control their craft in the wind and still fish. I'm not speaking from no experience, though I don't have nearly as much as some on this forum. I've owned one toon and seven tubes and I still prefer a tube. (Admittedly I usually fish smaller waters and sheltered bays of larger ones, so you know my slant.)

It is good to give special attention to those with multiple tube/fin experience and listen to their *reasons* and not just their favorite brands. Also consider their size, the type of fishing they do, etc. Then make the best choice you can based on your own needs. Better yet, borrow the kind you are looking at and try it out. (IFT, given the dirth of other float tubers nearby you might not be able to do this.)

[cool]Heading back to the safety of my steel reinforced bunker now.

z~

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[zonker]

Before I go back into hiding...

My two cents on fins...

I've had four kinds - a cheapo set of diver's fins, two sets of the Creek Company generic "one size fits all" ones, a set of Force Fins, and a set of Mares Plana Avantis. The cheapo divers were passed on to grandkids as soon as I could upgrade. The Creek Company fins worked well for many years but for me were always very uncomfortable and hard to get on and off. They now hang on the wall for guests and kids I take fishing. The Force Fins worked fine until I somehow lost them. (Still trying to figure out where they went in a move from California to Oregon.) The Mares fins (like the blue ones in a post above) are the cat's meow at this point as far as I'm concerned. Comfortable. Powerful, but not so stiff they wear me out. Easily on and easy off. If I had to choose between my old Force Fins and the Mares, the Mares would win hands down. Then again, after paying what I did for the FF, had I not lost them I would probably still be using them and not know that difference.

z~
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[flygoddess]

I started off with the Caddis flippers, They worked okay, but they chewed up my wading boots (I wear Simms wading boots because I also fish rivers) and the boot on my hippers
[inline "Fin 1.jpg"]

So then I moved on to the Browning. Very long and flexable like the scuba gear. The rubber strap on the back will break at the most inconvenient time. They too were hard on my boots.

[inline "Fin 2.jpg"]

Finally, two years ago, I bought the Force Fins. Keep in mind there are a bunch of different styles of force fins and bunch of different prices. I went with the ones in the middle that have Neoprene heel gaurd and neoprene for the top of your foot. Slide your foot in, adjust the neoprene and clip. Done. They do not wear on my boots at all, the flex, they scoop, and I can move quickly and easily and I am not a strong person.

[inline "Fin 3.jpg"]

It is a personal preference. But, I am sold on Force fins.

Don't forget TEATHERS
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[IrishFloatTube]

Flygoddess:
After reading your post I took a look at my fins - turns out I remembered the name wrong! They are Deep See Explorers, not as I said above (will edit that post later)
Rather similar looking fins to the Brownings.
After about 5 years use the ankle strap gets a bit tatty and needs replacement, same as you mentioned.
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[poky-mon]

you wear what
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