Political Debates - Do you watch them

[davetclown]

Vote for all that apply

any one catch any of the debates?

did you have any opinions as to how it was conducted.

Did any one catch the You Tube debate? [indent]
I missed it, I would like to know what every one thought about it,
Do ya think they should more of these type of debates where polititions have to answer hard cold questions from the general public with out having pre written scripts to read from?[/indent]
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[southernman]

the latest round of lies from the republicans:

[url "http://www.factcheck.org/sunday_morning_missteps.html"]http://www.factcheck.org/sunday_morning_missteps.html[/url]

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[davetclown]

they all lie, every body lies, you and me lies, My dog is lying right now...[laugh]
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[gdn443]

They all throw the BS. We just have to learn how to read between the lines. And hope for the best. Want to talk about BS, look at congress! My reps have done nothing real and still get reelected.
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[davetclown]

at the start of the Iowa democratic debate these candidates had polls that read for the top three runners are.

Obama 27% remained the same.
Edwards 26% Up 14%
Clinton 26% Down 14%

as to the results after the debate I havent a clue, I can say, that Obama raised many good points, I do like what he said about being streight forward with americans.

Edwards did well, not avoiding or deflecting questions.

Clintion deflected questions and still states she has the know how to get laws passed. I wonder if she plans on sneeking incerts in to current bills to get her policies passed. She stated she has other ajendas but would not coment on what they were. That bothers me....[crazy]

No one asked the hard question about the rights to own and bear arms.... Why?
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[gdn443]

The second amenment is two hot an issue for them to bring up this early. The press had a field day when they were asked about gay rights. I can't trust much what any say to heart, but Clinton has learn the ropes longer.
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[davetclown]

Clinton is all done before the race ever started... she has a running track history for attempting to mess with the second amendment.... when hubby clintion was in office they snuck in some anti gun "semi automatic rifles" in to a bill. It passed only to be repealed in the mid term election when a bunch of democrats got fired. The rest of the democrats turnd against the bill too becuse they had a new election comeing up next another two year away.

if any one of these can people ever expect to get in to the white house they need to find some one who is not going to tamper with the amendments and bill of rights...

Your right, it is a hot topic, and thay need to do it now and quit waisting our time. We know for a fact that no one will suport any one who wishes to mess with gun issues. Dont wait untill it becomes a presidental race where it will be brought up for sure and it comes up the race will be all said and done....
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[southernman]

dave - id like to examine the details of this story

to start with you prob got your 'story' from the NRA, which does nothing but give half truths, innuendo, and pure lies

2nd - this was when her husband was president, and she was first lady, right? why should that apply to her? do you fault nancy reagan for all the stupid crap ronnie pulled? Like selling arms to Iran to fund his contras ????

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[davetclown]

I got my info on her when she came to detriot and started ranting about anti gun stuff in her suport campains for both Gore and Kerry.

If it werent for her documented position on guns I'd of vote for her, there just no way on gods green earth is any one going to prove to me that this lepord has changed her spots....

imediatly after sundays debate the mayor and cheif of police in detroit got on tv and started talking about having to get rid of leagle guns in detroit because they cant keep them out of the hands of criminals.

think about it, how can some one be a repeated gun violance person every 6 months if he is locked up for 10 years.

all any gun restrictions do is disarm law biding citizens who then fall prey to criminals of all sorts.

The only legal machein guns in this country are those that belong to military and law enforcement. you wont get 10 years for possesion of an illegal machein gun... Where is the deturent? Where is the law and conciquence to govern the law that will make some one afraid to posses an ilegal wepon? It dosnt exist.

The only reason they dont ask her about her position on guns is any thing she says can be devalidated by her past campains in suport of other anti gun polititions. [center]===[/center]
This is why I want this question asked now! not when it comes between two presidental candidates so we end up with another Bush.... This is exactly how we get these Bushes and people like Bushes is by having anti gun people running for president...

Any one who dose not understand this dose not belong holding a political office..... "my opinion"
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[davetclown]

Have you ever heard the term "Nagging Wife" "Politics makes strange bed fellow" "birds of a feather flock together"? Yes it all sounds cleche' but you know as well as I that there is truth behind cleche's

Regan did a lot more supid stuff than just selling guns to talliban (iraq).... He sold yellowstone national park to japan. he took first steps in breaking the backs of unions in america, he started the process of changing the trade agreements to what we have today.

all because some body wants to mess with the 2nd amendment....

Here is a simple fact. Democrats Needs all of the indipendant voters or a good portion of Swing Republican voters to win any ellection.
[center][url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Party_affiliation_USA.jpg"][/url][/center] [center]Registered [#800000]Democrats[/#800000], [#000080]Republicans[/#000080] and [#bfbf00]Independents[/#bfbf00] in millions[/center] [center] [/center]
The independents voter is to be feared, they represent the balance, and when it come to messing with the amendments and bill of rights you can bet your last vote that they will be voting to protect their rights over stupidity of a republican. "My point of view based on what I have witnessed in the past 44 years"

This is why it is so important to get the issue of guns out in the open now! If we are going to send a person with a real fighting chance to the oval office, he or she needs to be one who will protect all the rights of Americans ....

We are not re-electing Bush, we are looking at an entirely new Republican candidate, and as you said who ever it is, "Is No Bush". This means that there is little chance of getting a swing republican vote this election. Unless by some miracle some one pulls a rabbit out of his hat and prosecutes Bush.
[left]In my opinion, if Clinton is nominated we will get 4 or 8 more years of the same crap we have been getting for the last 32 of 44 years. I am an independent voter and I am telling you what I am looking at for this election, believe it or not, Independent voters tend to think the same, thats why we are independent voters….[/left]
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[southernman]

I disagree with this assessment - since only 121 million people voted for pres in 2004, and your graph adds up 169 million

[url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_2004"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_2004[/url]


besides pop vote isnt the same as the electoral system we have, something to remember since Gore won the pop vote by 1/2 million in 2000, and still got the election stolen from him

[url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_2000"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_election%2C_2000[/url]


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[davetclown]

who voted in 2004 and who is registered to vote in 2007 are two different numbers.

I fully agree on the electoral collage...[mad]

no doubt I too am not a big fan of the electoral collage, I think it is bunk in this day and age. When it was set up it was susposed to make the counting faster because it would take weeks up to a couple months just collecting the votes from districts.

today we dont need it. It should be thrown out. It is a method of corupting the political election system. It corupts elections all the way down to city levels where if one district votes for a mayor and he gets 51% he gets all the votes from that district... If ya ask me, that is just plain wrong...

same thing happened to nixon in the kenedy election... boy was he hot [shocked]
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[davetclown]

here is a tidbit, a bit hard to swallow,

An estimated 201.5 million U.S. citizens age 18 or over will be eligible to vote Nov. 2, although many are not now registered. This dose not take in to account of the number of non citizens who will be come citizens between now and then who genneraly tend to vote for the party or person who was in office at the time they were sworn in... "bad way to vote if ya ask me"

but ya know how it is when you get all hyped up on becomming an american citizen for the first time....
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[davetclown]

I too felt Gore was robbed.

as for kerry, my vote was in his hip pocket untill he picked up that shot gun. I felt like I was kicked in the kidny just after having my apendix ripped out.

I hate being blind sited, we had other Democrats that could have run with out having to have an anti gun rebbel running for office.

I went from being a vote in his hip pocket to being as pissed off at him for that one single act as much as I was at Reagon when he got up and stated on national tv that the US economy was based on us selling 1000 cars and trucks in japan.... I wanted to put my foot through the tv.. I felt betrayed...

Ya know the old saying, twice bitten twice shy... Man I got bite marks all over my hynie [pirate]

I will be just as much ticked off this time as I was last time... Then there will be no way of getting me to vote for Democrat on the presidential ellection.

That is why I want it out in the open now...

We have the oppertunity now we never had before, If the democratic party puts up a good civil rights candidate thus raising the bar, Then with out a doubt the republican party will have to pony up with a someone who will have to be pro US social and economic reform candidate. Something to think about...

the day of running just any body for office because of the way things ran during the last term is gone, You can thank the nixon ford carter ragon debockle for that...

dont get me wrong, I actualy like carter, his heart is in the right place, he just did not have what it took to effectivly run a bussiness as large as the US economy. It was ashame his penut farm whent bankrupt as well.
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[southernman]

perhaps you're one of the guys that doesn't knowthe difference between a military pump with a short stock and holds 20 rounds, then a model 12 winchester hunting gun, the finest pump ever made ???

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[davetclown]

20 rounds of shot gun shells times 2.5 inches = 50 inches, an extra 10 inches of chamber is needed for the recoil spring to opperate a pump with 20 rounds. thus the total lenth of the gun you discribe would have to be a minimum of 67inches, that counting that it has a ninty degree pistol grip...

the gun you discribe would have to be as long as I am tall.

I would like to see the make and modle of that gun,

20 rounds of buck shot is going to weigh 5 pounds, that gun would have to weigh 12 pounds.

That must be why its called gorilla warfare, it would take a gorilla to man handle a gun of that lenth and weight.

Did I ever tell you about the time I caught a 50 pound blue gill? and I am a multi millionare owning developing my own invention, "board strechers"[sly][laugh]

Thanks, I needed a good chuckle.....[cool]
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[southernman]

the shells are held in the magazine at a 90 degree angle, business end of the shell pointed down, theyre rotated 90 in the pump action


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[davetclown]

I think I know the one you are talking about now, short barrel just under 20 inches, 6-7 inch diameter pump grip.

That gun not illegal to own, still requires you to have to go through a handgun permit and background check, and then good luck finding one. You have to be a retired military serves men to be able to get one from the military surplus.

That is not the gun Kerry held up. I recognized the browning pump 30-inch barrel right off, Identical to my brothers other than the pump chamber that is longer and holds 8 rounds instead of 5.

Sounds like something that could be fun to take a part (once)... I would love to see the mechanisms that flip a round in side of a chamber.

Aside from the negative weight factor for hunting, the mechanism would be more of a challenge to keep keeper clean in subfreezing temps, rain, ect.. the maintenance of that fire arm has to be a challenge in retrospect...

I used to have on old riot 12 gage pump shot gun, "Ithaca" from back in the 50's it carried 8 rounds. "Not the sawed off barrel one"

Wished I hadn’t of developed a brain fart and got rid of it along with a few others I moved on. It was the best little goose gun I ever had. I did have to make a plug to put in it because in Michigan we can’t hunt waterfowl with a gun that holds more than three rounds.

Years ago we used to have field checks, Yep conservation officers would walk up on you in the field to check your gun... Now they have to wait to see you fire more than three rounds before they can check you....

I really liked it because it had a short stock, was a featherweight, until fully loaded then the weight was transferred down the barrel the more it was loaded. It would go from 5 to 7 pounds.

Now I have a semi automatic Ithaca, holds 5 rounds, weighs 8 pounds empty...

Lets face it, any one in the field with the gun you described is not out there hunting, he is out there target shooting on a live animal, "only Police and military have access to that gun" So if you see one a-field, it is one of our governments finest senselessly brandishing that fire arm.

Michigan state law says a maximum of 5 round max capacities for a shotgun for the purpose of hunting other than waterfowl.

I picked up a copy of Michigan state laws, we have laws to govern guns, what we don’t have is the ability to be willing to inflict consequences on violators. Any way the copy comprised of 70+ volumes of hard back when stretched out lengths a span of 18 feet.
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We have laws that say you can hunt an elk in Michigan with a 12-gage shotgun, but not any shotgun with a smaller slug because it doesn’t have the take down power of a 12-gage slug. We really have a lot of sensible laws governing hunting. Any one wanting to keep their gun and keep hunting are not the people you have to worry about when it comes to guns that are of assault nature. The people you need to worry about are the illegal aliens who jump the boarder every year packing lord only knows what, “Literally millions”. Now that is scarry!!!

If some one is using an assault weapon for deer hunting they are not doing in Michigan, I don’t know any one who would not turn that person in, we all want to hunt under fair practices and we hate cheaters…

What needs to be addressed is the violence in people. We have kids in Detroit who grow up in threatened homes, racial being the minimum of their worries, they have a greater chance of being shot by family than a racial profiler. And greater threat still is they are likely to be shot by a friend than family and still greater is being shot by a work associate and even still greater is a member of the same gang they belong to and greater still is an apposing gang member.

These kids live under these treats from infancy to mid teens when they make the decision to take a life of crime or a life of labor in rat and roach infested homes and struggle feed a family keep heat in the house food on the table.

Again infusing the work force with immigrants dose drive down middle class wages, but it has a detrimental affect on the poor of this nation…. One that drives kids in to violence and a life of crime…. We talk about a nation of equal opportunity, there is nothing further from the truth than that statement….

We need government employees “politicians is a poor choice of words because they are our employees and not positions of power as many have seemed to have deluded their minds with the notion of.”

We need to change our mind set from political races to employees being interviewed for a high paying job with the best benefit packages any one can get…
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