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Tony Oppegard, an adviser to the MSHA during the Clinton administration, said Murray's manner and standing hover over the question of the agency's June approval of his plan for Crandall Canyon.
"MSHA probably gave it cursory review, and you have to wonder if they gave it cursory review because of who they were dealing with: Bob Murray," Oppegard said.
The agency's commitment to safety enforcement has been a recurring question under the Bush administration. Dave D. Lauriski, a former mine operator from Price, Utah, who headed the MSHA from 2001 to 2004, shifted the agency's mission from regulation to "compliance assistance" -- persuading mine owners to make changes rather than fining them for infractions.
Mine inspectors were even renamed "compliance assistance specialists" until an outcry forced a reversion to the original job title.
"Every minute you spend on compliance assistance is a minute you're not spending on enforcement," Oppegard said. "My view is compliance assistance took a few years to take root, and now we're seeing the effects of it."
Washington plays one more role in the tension between financial returns and safety. Mine operators note that, in the West, most mineral rights are leased from the federal Bureau of Land Management or the [url "http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/USDA+Forest+Service?tid=informline"]U.S. Forest Service[/url]. Those agreements mandate "a maximum economic recovery" of the leased resource, a prod to mine as aggressively as possible, one operator said
[url "http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/19/AR2007081900127_2.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/19/AR2007081900127_2.html[/url]
how anyone who works for a living could vote for a republican is beyond me, it really is . .
sm
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]First off SM I am disgusted that you or anyone else would make a tragedy such as this into a political argument. [/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]MSHA, if anything has become stricter with rules and regulations in the previous 8 years. [/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]You ask how anyone who works for a living could vote Republican, well here it is.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Take a look at these coal miners, most of them are union members and belong to the United Mine Workers of America. The UMWA supports the Democratic party. This is fine and all, but there is a stong environmental movement in the Democratic party that wants to put an end to coal fired power plants. So what happens to these jobs if the environmental portion of the Democratic party gets thier way? It is kind of a double edged sword if you ask me.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Another example[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]I used to work for a facility here in Wyoming and was a member of the UMWA in the 90's during the Clinton era. But during the late 90's as Clinton and Gore's environmental and taxing impacts on our buisness started to take effect the company I worked for could no longer ecinomically operate the facility, so the facility was closed and demolished, laying off over a hundred union dues paying individuals. During my time with this company I had listened to the brainwashing effects of the UMWA and had voted for Clinton during his two terms, only to have my vote end up costing me a job. As a members of the UMWA most of us were not worried because we felt confident that the UMWA would help us out in our time of need, but this never happened. The only thing that ever happened to all of the hourly folks was the UMWA bought us a cheesy $10 watch and engraved on it "Thanks for you support", which ment thanks for giving us $60 a month for the last 30 years without us ever having to give anything in return. Now I look back and am still in touch with many of former work mates, and many of us are still Union members but not many of us will vote based off of party lines. The lesson we learned was to look at the qualities and beliefs of each individual running for office and see how they could effect us personally.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]But to this day I still refuse to call Clinton names for the impacts his administation had on me and many of my fiends. I have more respect for the position of president, than many of the Democrats today have.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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First off Wyobraz, Im digusted in your empty appeal that im making light of a tragedy to make a political argument, thats bad logic, known as a red herring, an argument which distracts the audience from the issue in question through the introduction of some irrelevancy . . .
Second, None of the Miners at the Huntington Canyon Mine are members of the Union . .
Sorry you lost your job, but perhaps you might want to blame it on Reagan/Bush, or the ddropping price of coal in the 90's, or perhaps mis-management of the company you worked for . . you see when the republicans come in and promise all the fat cats their big tax cuts, and then we run a deficit at the same time running up a huge debt for the war, ITS EXACTLY THE SAME AS A TAX INCREASE ! Sure the democrats will have to raise taxes for the rich and others, they will be forced to because Bush is passing along a huge debt and deficit . . you know the debt and deficit that CLINTON ELIMINATED! You know the one HE INHERITED FROM BUSH I !!!!!!
You benefitted from a safer workplace, better pay, and more benefits that any miner in history, that was your reward, sorry it wasnt a rolex . . .
I can imagine the speech they gave as they closed your mine, all those owners with their golden parachutes, bet their severance packages were just fine . . . telling all you workers it was clinton and gore's fault - yeah right - and now the price of coal is up 50% that what it sold for in 2001, they're prob back in business..
and hey i just copied something from an article printed today online in the washington post
sm
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]SM, first off if it were not for the tragedy in Utah would you be using this article to show how poorly the Bush administraion may have handled the mine safety? Only you know for sure but I doubt it.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Second you are correct and I misstated about the miners at the Genwall mine bieng Union members, that is my mistake. But many miners in that area are Union members just as I am today.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Third where did you come up with the idea that I ever worked in a coal mine? Just because I was a member of the UMWA does not meen I worked at a coal mine. The UMWA represents many workers that work in other industries than coal mines. So you are wrong about the facilty I worked at being back in buisness, because it no longer exists. It was tore down in 2001 and every employee including management was terminated from the company and the price of coal had absolutely nothing to due with the closure.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]But I agree that we did benefit from a safer work place with decent pay and somewhat decent benefits, due to the UMWA, and I agree that our dues helped accomplish this. But when our members were in a time of need and needed the UMWA to help us negotiate a severence package they dropped us from thier membership and ignored our calls because we wouldn't be paying dues after the facility closed. [/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Anyway I'll get off my soap box now, [/size][/#808000][/font]
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Ya know by now I am anti Clinton,
But in retrospect to his term in office something good did come of it.
It was a law that stopped companies form just closing their doors without notice leaving all its employees jobless, no insurance, no nothing, Clinton found that companies in practice of this put a strain on the already overburdened state welfare resources.
During the Reagan and First bush administrations when they started freeing up the fair triad agreements to allow our market to be flooded with foreign product.
Clinton did get a mandate though that stated that no company can fold up as did your mine and leave its workers hanging on the edge of a cliff as has happened times as companies factories closed down one after another not to mention the number of companies who sent their head quarters across boarders to avoid taxes.
This also happened during the Clinton years as well. Once the flood gate was opened, every one is afraid to close the dam stopping industry from leaving thus created the largest tax based losses since hovers time..
Democrats and Republicans are both guilty on this account. No one party could do it single handedly, they had to work together to change the laws that were set in place back when Roosevelt came to the realization that we had to first fix our own internal economy before we can have a world economy.
WE are playing a dangerous game when we play with global economics.... This is so dangerous in that a country can go bankrupt because it made mistakes investing in the market... When this happens all hell breaks loose as it did on 911 just as the market began to crash and major corporations books found to be doctored to convince investors to buy fraudulent stocks.
Again, no one single party is guilty of this, and that is why I say if we have to give up our civil rights for economical justice then something there dose not seem right to me, If you catch my drift.
I want to commend you on taking the stance of being an independent voter; it takes some courage these days and quite often some perseverance as well...
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[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]Ya Dave I wish there were more partys in our political system. The lock that the 2 major parties have on our country is wrong, and does nothing but bring our country down. People get so involved in certain beliefs that a political party has they almost forget that they can think for themselves.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]I almost hate voting sometimes because I don't like having the feeling of picking the lesser of two evils. But I do vote because I have always believed that if I didn't vote I did not have the right to complain.[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3][/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Times New Roman"][#808000][size 3]I have said this before and your graph you posted earlier backs this up. Until the Dems realize that thier success relies on the more moderate (independent) people of this country they will never stand a chance, especially with this voter.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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We all know bush is unobservant when it comes to preventing pragmatic domestic issues and problems; It has become apparent in the past few administrations that no president will be held accountable for his actions in office. As a matter of fact It seems to be a game of how deep can they turn the thumb screws before some one scream policy that both parties take great sport in playing...
It would not hurt my feelings one bit if bush got smacked in the rear on his way out, and not one of them good play taps from his team mates if ya know what I mean. You and I both know it aint going to happen, Not even Clinton will see to it because it opens the door for other past presidents and future presidents to be held accountable for their infractions of the faith of office….
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I think Bush is a helluva lot more than "unobservant", the guy is evil . . he sold us all down to road to war and lied all the way, via his former sos, all for profit for his cronies, and his chosen bunch . . I mean you people keep saying clinton lied about the BJ, how about lying to the wolrld, and causing a half a million deaths in a needless war?
sounds like a damn war criminal to me
the guy is a traitor at the very least . . .
sm
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I hate it too at times, but do because it is my civil duty, Thus I vote Thus I complain allot..... LOL
During the last presidential election, I actually felt like both parties were holding me at gunpoint.... What happened to the Democrats getting rid of the guns?, we need to disarm the politicians… LOL
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I am curious whether you think the war on terror is needless or not?
Have you already forgotten the 3,000 people that died on Sept 11? Or is that all a Bush conspiracy as well?
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ok eveyrbody repeat after me:
IRAQ HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11
IRAQ HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11
IRAQ HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11
nothing nada, now i know what the servies are gonna say: he was a bad man, he gassed the kurds, he supported terrorism . . .blah blah blah
still no reason why we should invade a country and kill half a million people, cause those werent the lies we were fed by the dry drunk bush
why havent we got bid laden, why has afghanistan produced a bumper opium crop, why havent we invaded pakistan to get the all queda ???? wh havent we started a draft, if its a war, we need a draft! why havent we invaded iran, why havent we invaded north korea, huh? huh? damn good ques i would say . . .
sm
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again thanks for the red herring, your call to an emotional response is a fallacy, poor logic,
no i havent forgotten, but we already have forgotten the men & women who worked at ground zero, they've been denied their medical care, and theyre being told nothing is wrong with them . . .
look it up
sm
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Hey, I am with you... I don't like that we are at war AT ALL. So why do you want to invade North Korea and Pakistan? You're hating on Bush because he invaded Iraq, but in the same paragraph ask why we don't invade other sovereign countries.
It's called the War on Terror... Not the war on Al Qaeda. I think President Bush has made it clear that NO terrorists are safe. Not just the ones that attacked us. Was Saddam a terrorist? You better believe it. And a terrorist with a lot of weapons to boot. How long before that [url "mailto:crazy@ss"]crazy@ss[/url] sends his scuds (which we did find) into Israel? He was a terrorist through and through. Do I believe he had anything to do with 9/11??? Probably not directly.
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it was a rhetorical question dude, to make a point
and oh yeah, did we ever find any of his weapons ???? hah i guess not, more lies
and i ask you again, if bush says no terrorists are safe, why havent we invaded iran, pakistan, and north korea. . .
perhaps cause its all a load of donkey shit
screw bush and his 'war on terror', just another fake war to keep the fat cats rolling in blood money
sm
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[sly]LMAO, sm, you still beating that dead horse? What about the "blood" that was spilt all over the streets of New York? By the way, didn't congress vote to go to war based on the same intellegence the pres received? I think, Ted (hicup) Kennedy, Joe Biden, Hillary and even robert KKK Bird voted for the war. But hey, you can't blame them for poor decision making can ya? If we didn't go to war you'de just blame the president for not protecting this country. The same way you libs blame him for everything. I'm sure you can come up with some kind of conspiracy theory about where the weapons are / were but that wouldn't help your agenda of absolute hatred for the president. Which is all this thread is about... Your hatred for the president.[  ][  ]..
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Very well said. [cool]
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lmmfao reading this stuff! Good times....[cool]
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[reply]
were but that wouldn't help your agenda of absolute hatred for the president. Which is all this thread is about... Your hatred for the president.[ ][ ].. [/reply]
You hit it on the nail head, Bearclaw
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they voted for the war on the lies and deception the bush scum put out there . . . but hey that was 4 years ago, what about now?
bush committed crimes against humanity for taking us to war on lies
yes i have complete contempt and hatred for anybody who lies totheir people and takes em to war to make big bucks for his arab friends, an halibuttin'
bush should be tried, found guilty and shot like the dirty dog he is
sm
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[reply]
yes i have complete contempt and hatred for anybody who lies totheir people
sm [/reply]
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