Still struggling in the tube

[Tartantuber]

Started off with a Creek Co. ODC 420 last year. Find it very comfortable and safe *but*...have been out a good few times now and can get around not too bad(except in any decent wind)but still have the nagging feeling all is not right. Few questions for anyone with experience of this or similar tubes:-

1. After being out for just a few minutes I find myself leaning back too much and the floor of the rear of the tube gets almost submerged. If you then adjust the seat straps it corrects this a bit(not entirely) but not for long. Should you have to readjust throughout the day?

2. Due to the above problem(I think) most of the time when I am finning the tips of the fins are breaking surface. With this tube you sit high up anyway and the leaning back doesn't help. I think this is contributing greatly to the problems experienced getting from A to B on a loch.

Am I doing it all wrong or is it the tubes' fault?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Sounds like a good example of why it is usually suggested that newbie tubers take their craft out on the water without tackle a couple of times, until they get the adjustments right and a proper feeling of how to operate it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Having the backrest on the tube properly adjusted can make a big difference. If your settings are slipping, you have not assembled the tube correctly and the straps need to be restrung so that they hold position. Then, try setting the back seat so that it is almost upright before you sit down. It will sag backwards a little, but you should not be leaning over backward. There should be a balance where you are sitting mostly upright, with only a slight backward slant for comfort.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That will also give you better propulsion, without your fins coming up out of the water. Ideally, when your leg is fully extended on the upward kick, you should create a "boil" on the top of the water, but your fins should remain submerged. It does take practice to get the rhythm and length of stroke down so that you get the best propulsion without tiring or overexertion for the movement you get out of each stroke.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Hope that helps.[/#0000ff]
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[zonker]

What Tubedude said...

Also, since I have an ODC 420 (actually it now belongs to my Grandson) I'll add that the seat adjustment is very important on this tube. You need to start with it cinched up very tightly, with the seat in nearly a vertical position. Then gradually let it out until you're comfortable. Since the foam seat on this model of tube tends to bend at the back, there is extra reason to keep it adjusted. Finally, getting water into the area behind the seat is expected. Don't let it bug you. Put any gear you have in a waterproof boat bag or something similar. If too much water gets back there it is probably a sign that you're plowing instead of finning.

z~
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[swedishfish]

I also have an ODC 420. As the day goes on, the foam back begins to bend and wrap around your body. The straps also compress the foam and start to get longer and longer. This requires you to re-adjust them.

After a few trips of dealing with this, I cut a piece of plexiglass that would fit in the sleeve of the seat back behind the foam. This firmed things up and I never re-adjust now. Just make sure you round all the corners on the plexiglass and sand everything smooth.
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[Tartantuber]

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If too much water gets back there it is probably a sign that you're plowing instead of finning.

Like the idea of the plexiglass to firm things up. What exactly is "plowing"? Have never heard this term regarding tubing.
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[bendopolo]

Instead of skimming along you are pushing a bow wake. ie. pushing water out of the way. This takes alot of energy. I don't think you should use plexi to firm things up. The Plexi will rub right thru the fabric and bladder. Better to blow that thing up to 5-6 lbs of air pressure and re blow after a little time on the water. A firm tube is a fast tube. So to say, even though in a tube we are not much faster than plankton. If comfort is your main objective, stick to an old fashion round tube, when my back goes bonkers, a day in the round tube actually seems to fix things. Like fishin' on a cloud...[]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Sorry, but I gotta disagree with you on your advice. Many of the seats on newer tubes have wimpy backrests that do not provide firm support. Adding a thin sheet of something rigid can keep them from collapsing when you lean back. There is no way they can rub against an air chamber and cause damage.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]And, once somebody graduates to a good open front tube, there are few that would ever be happy putting up with getting in and out of a round monster again...and with sitting so low in the water...especially in cold water conditions.[/#0000ff]
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[Tartantuber]

Am getting advice from a UK tubing forum(I'm in Ireland) basically saying that tubes like the ODC420 do not perform very well in a wind(it's always windy here).

They recommend this:-

[url "http://www.fish-wild.co.uk/index.php?database=1&getpage=tacklereviews&pid=14"]http://www.fish-wild.co.uk/index.php?database=1&getpage=tacklereviews&pid=14[/url]

...which is the new top-rated tube over here. I'm thinking that although it may not be so high and easy to fish from as the ODC it will more than make up for that by being more stable in a wind and easily finned around. It's also mouth-inflatable which I'd think is a big plus. Any thoughts?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]There are always tradeoffs. In the ODC you float higher and consequently catch more wind. In the Shakespeare Tube, you will sit lower in the water, with more drag, and will not be blown around quite so much. However, you also have to kick harder to make the same progress across the water.[/#0000ff]
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[bendopolo]

Ouch! Oh well, disagreements are what created this country. I guess I misunderstood the placement of the plexiglass. I still think from an engineering standpoint that anything solid should never be mixed with anything flexible. A seatback may qualify as an exception. Perhaps better would be a stadium seat, they are inexpensive and provide a quality adjustable seating surface, they are also light weight. As for the round tube, they still have their advantages. They are light, easy to carry for those who hike into their fishing spots. Also as a second and sometimes loaner tube , you can swim circles around your buddy. You must admit, you are practically floating in your waders in the round tube. It is comfortable, despite the divantages. I now fish out of a Hobie Float Cat. It is fast and responds to every kick by leaping forward. It doesn't wallow in the wind waves or a boats wake, sometimes a disconcerting feeling. It doesn't have a lot of storage space and the wind can blow it around, conversely its so fast I can recover quickly. The most important thing is that you fix your tube up so you like to use it. Tweaking is fun and makes the tube your own little piece of Nirvana. By the way I am now finding out that it can actually be colder sitting out in the 23 degree air and wind than sitting down in the 40 degree water, while properly fleeced out in my waders. My nose still gets cold either way, the guides still freeze, and my fingers don't work but those giant Browns sure do warm you up.
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[IrishFloatTube]

[#0000ff][size 1]quote ....TD ... Many of the seats on newer tubes have wimpy backrests that do not provide firm support. Adding a thin sheet of something rigid can keep them from collapsing when you lean back. .. unquote[/size][/#0000ff]
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[size 1]If rigidity is lacking then it would be relatively simple to paste a thin layer of fibreglass on both sides of the white aeroboard expanded foam seat back (and seat base?). [/size]
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[size 1]For glues: If this is done with the conventional fibreglassing epoxy resin (laminating resin) the result would be a hard unyielding surface and not a good result.[/size]
[size 1]But in the past I have many times used fibreglass cloth with diluted PVA white glue, and the result is a leathery (like a suede leather shoe) tough layer. Dilute the PVA to the consistency of paint or varnish, apply to the foam, lay on the cloth, and paint on over so all is dampened, and stuck to the foam.[/size]

[size 1]The fibreglass cloth thickness is 40 grams per square metre. Dunno what that is in oz per yard, but just ask for the next thickness weave cloth up from tissue (25g/m2) which is the finest one available.[/size]
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[size 1]Actually for the purpose of the tube seat, even a linen or nylon cloth would laminate on this way, and provided the two sides are covered with a non-stretch surface layer the cloth would give the enhanced rigidity necessary.[/size]
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[size 1]The only requirement for a good result would be that you are happy with the degree of curve in the aeroboard before laminating on the thin stiff layers outside it. Because it's going to stay in that shape for good afterwards.[/size]
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[size 1]When it's done. Give it a final coat of undiluted PVA to finish off and cover up the fibreglass so that no little sharp bits stick up.[/size]
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[IrishFloatTube]

If you don't want to try the FG cloth and diluted PVA for glue ... (and I recommend it because it works well with foam) ... you would also be able to get a similar stiffening effect with criss-cross wrappings of ripstop packing tape around the white foam.

EDIT: Just looked at the avatar pics in the thread so far. Tubedude and myself seem to be more upright (upper body) and you may be leaning back a little, thus causing the tube to tilt back a bit.
Just based on tiny photos I know ... but it supports the idea that having a straighter seat back might be key to the problem.
This obviously would affect tall people more due to a higher centre of gravity.
So it is possible that little guys may be able to "slouch" and lean back more, and bigger folks may need to choose between a straighter seat, or a bigger wider tube design.
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[Saberfish]

[black][size 3]Just another opinion from the peanut gallery.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]It looks to me like too many people are trying to make a Caddy out of a Volkswagen. [/size]
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[size 3]With all of the different types of craft on the market today, anyone should be able to find a tube or pontoon that fits their needs and body types.[/size]
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[size 3]I'm all for the addition of rod holders, platforms, tackle boxes, etc. to make the craft into something that fits your needs, but to change the basic craft should not be necessary.[/size]
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[size 3]Tubes, donut, u-boat, pontoons, standing up, sitting down, motors, kick fins, etc. are all available, and should meet anyone's fishing needs.[/size]
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[size 3]Current suppliers of craft have spent many hours and dollars to fill the fishermen's needs, and reinventing the wheel is really not required.[/size]
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[size 3]My advise is to buy the craft that fits your fishing requirements, add those accessories that make it "your" boat, and go from there.[/size]
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[tlspyder13]

Here are two pictures on different days in my ODC. As you can see the back of my tube is down but not in the water like yours. Needed to use a litte more air in each picture myself. I weigh 200 lbs without the tackle and you don't look much bigger then me so maybe you just need a little more air in your tube. The back of the seat does start to curve the more you use the tube as that is what foam does. In the second pic I was really leaning back. Hope to find something to put behind the foam to firm it up this year.

I used to fish from a U shaped tube like you showed. It is much easier for me to move around in the wind with the ODC then it was in the U shaped tube. The extra ease of movement more than makes up for the extra wind you catch in my opinion.

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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]The voice of reason. What you say SHOULD be true. The unfortunate fact is that we are still forced to buy float tubes that manufacturers TELL US are great, but we still have to make personal modifications to fit our own personal physiques and fishing preferences.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Case in point? I bought a "top of the line" H3 tube from Northfork Outdoors. My reasoning was that the extra bucks they cost was worthwhile, because of the great reputation they have established in their pontoon line. I expected that for the money I would be getting a fantastic craft that I could use trouble free for years.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The reality? I have fished from the H3 at least 50 times. I have never been comfortable fishing from it without seat modifications. The seat is the worst possible design for me or any other large person. It is an inflatable, two part seat, with the lower part being way too short and it tilts forward...making it necessary to keep repositioning yourself to keep from sliding out. It is also the hardest and most uncomfortable inflated seat I have ever sat upon. And, if I let out a bit of air to soften the ride, the slideout factor becomes even worse.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]This is not just my opinion. TubeBabe wants to go back to her old Fat Cat. I know several others who have the H3 and they almost universally have back pain and butt pain after fishing more than an hour or so in the H3.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Since buying the H3, I have gone through an endless procession of potential remedies...stadium seats, foam inserts, foam cushions, cut down lawn chairs, etc. The past few trips I have been lashing on a padded contour chair, and propping up the front to help keep me from sliding out. (See attached picture) That works better than anything else I have tried, but it is ridiculous to have to resort to adding a heavy seat for comfort after paying what I did for that tube.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It took a few trips in my Super Fat Cat, with the inflated seats, to get everything adjusted for comfort. But, once properly set up I could fish all day in comfort. With the H3, I cannot fish more than a couple of hours without having to go ashore and readjust the seats and let my numb bum recover.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]My point...there is no "one size fits all" on the market. So, it really does pay to shop and to try before you buy if you can. And, once you find that you need to make adjustments, don't just suffer through it. Make the adjustments necessary to let you enjoy your fishing and not make it an ordeal of endurance.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Anybody wanna buy a couple of H3's?[/#0000ff]
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[Saberfish]

[black][size 3]Sorry to hear about your discomfort in the H3.[/size][/black]
[size 3]I had it in my mind that you had worked out all the "fit" problems, and that you and your southern exposure were in hog heaven while fishing.[/size]
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[size 3]I guess that I have been very lucky to have total comfort in a standard plastic pontoon seat.[/size]
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[size 3]However, there was one day when I was a little low on air in my toons, and with the weight of the battery and motor in the rear end, I was sitting in a "lounge" position. It was even better than the standard. Fished all day with time out for bathroom calls and a little lunch, and could have gone for another full day. Surprising how much difference the angle of the seat made.[/size]
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]The angle of the seat makes a BIG difference. I put a piece of foam inside the front of the bottom inflated seat and then also add some padding under the front of the contour seat. That allows me to sit at a fairly comfortable angle without having to keep pushing myself back. You have no idea how much strain that puts on my back and upper arms over the course of a day's fishing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It really is better to be able to fish without worrying about seating comfort. But, it is unfortunate that the basic design on the H3 is so flawed. I think he built the seats around whatever inflated cushions he could get rather than building the right kind of seat and then having cushions made to fit. One of the things is that the rear cushions are so thick that they push you forward on the already too short seat...even when adjusted back as far as you can get them. If you let air out, they collapse and you have the same problem as the original poster on this thread...lack of proper back support.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have looked at a dozen different models of the pontoon seats. They would work well, but I have a problem with spending another 10% of the total cost just to correct a seat problem...and then having to modify the new purchase as well, to get it to fit and to ride properly.[/#0000ff]
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[Tartantuber]

[reply]
Here are two pictures on different days in my ODC. As you can see the back of my tube is down but not in the water like yours. Needed to use a litte more air in each picture myself. I weigh 200 lbs without the tackle and you don't look much bigger then me so maybe you just need a little more air in your tube. The back of the seat does start to curve the more you use the tube as that is what foam does. In the second pic I was really leaning back. Hope to find something to put behind the foam to firm it up this year.

I used to fish from a U shaped tube like you showed. It is much easier for me to move around in the wind with the ODC then it was in the U shaped tube. The extra ease of movement more than makes up for the extra wind you catch in my opinion.[/reply]

I hear what you are saying but I always thought you needed *less* air in a wind?? Also I'd be interested to know what kind of blow you go out in. Here it would regularly be Force 4-5 or more.
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[road]

I also fish from a 420 and have had problems with the seat. They are just not built for us larger fishermen. Something to strenghten the back support goes a long way.

The wind thing has not been that much of a problem for me. It seems the wind is always blowing a little. I have adjusted to it. I also have learned when to get off the water because there was going to be too much wind.

Heck if there wasn't any wind I would have to learn how to fish all over again. I like my ODC 420 but am looking at other floats. It's simply the seat thing for me.
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[tlspyder13]

When your tube if full you glide across the water. When you are low on air the front drops and you plow through the water. I'd still rather have to kick against the wind in my ODC then my old U tube anyday. Much less effort to get back to the car.
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