'Toon vs. Kayak?

[SHigSpeed]

So, now that I have a FC4 dx and I LOVE it, I was fishing a high mountain trout lake this weekend.

This is a great place, relatively small, and NO motors at all allowed. It worked great as they had recently planted and concentrated so I didn't have to seek them out.

BUT

had I had to kick across the 3/4 mile or so to get to the other side, it may have hurt a bit.

So, the kayakers and canoers were effortlessly gliding around, but I didn't see any 'tooners.

Anyone have experience in both kayaks and a small (8' - 9') pontoon? Can you comment on the comparative energy use between the three? (Including a high bow tube)

Of course I love the idea of the rowing speed of the 'toon but also how it has the positioning advantage of having fins...

Damn toys!

_SHig
[signature]

[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Suffering from "kayak envy"? No matter what we choose as our primary fishing platform, we always wonder if we made the best choice. Either that, or we never buy anything because we drive ourselves bonkers trying to figure out what is best.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Obviously there are advantages and divantages to every type of craft. Float tubes are ideal for hands free fishing on small waters, where neither speed or distance are important. Pontoons are a step up in speed and distance but require more attention from the angler while fishing. They also catch the wind more. Kayaks are the ultimate in being able to skim across the water to get to a far off fishing spot, but if even a light breeze comes up you will be fighting to keep position more than you will be fighting fish.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]We have members who own multiple fishing machines...tubes, toons, yaks and boats. There are times and places where one is better than the other. And, there is no law that says you can't own more than one. Of course, a tight budget and/or a skeptical spouse can slow you down.[/#0000ff]
[signature]

[SHigSpeed]

[quote TubeDude]
[#0000ff]We have members who own multiple fishing machines...tubes, toons, yaks and boats. There are times and places where one is better than the other. And, there is no law that says you can't own more than one. Of course, a tight budget and/or a skeptical spouse can slow you down.[/#0000ff][/quote]

<LOL> Truer words have never been spoken... I think what it comes down to is the "run" to the hot spots. I doubt I'll consider a kayak as the positioning issue would drive me mad. Not having a truck, I like inflatables for their portability and I'd guess that an inflatable kayak isn't much faster than a 'toon.

I think perhaps the "skeptical spouse" may be the biggest deterrent going though!

Thanks!

_SHig
[signature]

[kochanut]

tubes/toons actually get you in better shape i say! thats why Tube Dude is pushing 412 years old! a healthy diet and plenty of kicking in his tube keeps him going strong! i tried to fish out of a kayake in cali. did not like it one bit at all. if i sneezed to hard i would be blown to the other side of the lake. if i did (which i did) drop anchor, even if it was bow or stern mount, and the wind came, i felt as if i was going to tip and spill constantly. i was not in one of the ultimate fishing yak's but still, it just wasent my thing. worse come to worse you could always take a snooze in your tube/toon. i have done that many a times on smaller lakes where i new i would be safe. its very relaxing taking a short snooze and having the wind gently blow you across the pond. you wake up relaxed and recharged.
[signature]

[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]HEY, HEY HEY! I'll have you know that I am not a day over 375. Sheesh. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]But, you are right. Tubing is a good exercise. Whenever I get a physical the doc usually comments on my good general health and that my muscle tone and blood pressure are better than most guys my age.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I'll tell ya though. We have it much easier these days. It was nasty trying to kick around in a stone float tube, with wooden fins...especially when you had to keep dodging Ichthyosaurs and T-rexes.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]You are also right about the comfort and "nap inducing" qualities of a tube. I have found myself dozing at the "wheel" on more than one occasion. Used to fish with a guy named Pat Milburn (still around) who was prone to sudden "nap attacks". Here is a picture I took of him at PIneview one time. I entitled it "Milburn in the bulrushes".[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][inline "MILBURN - PINEVIEW.jpg"][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I played a cool joke on him one time, after he dozed off in his tube. We had been dragging a tandem fly rig around on sinking line and the action slowed down enough that he "Z-ed out". I kicked over within casting distance, layed out a cast across his line and then slowly pulled in his line with mine. I snipped off his two flies and put them in my wool patch on my vest and then boogied for the vehicle.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]After a short snooze, my buddy woke up, looked around and saw me back at the rig. So, he reeled in his line to join me. I wasn't close enough to see the look on his face when he discovered his flies missing, but I could only imagine his wrinkled brows. When he joined me on the bank he started off with the usual fisherman's story..."You ain't gonna believe this..." and then told me about both flies being bitten off by some toothy fish. I let him finish his story and his guess about what happened. Then, I removed his flies from my vest patch and asked "Did those flies look like this?"[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I wonder why we ever quit fishing together. He was so much fun.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]The rest of the story? I moved to Arizona for over 20 years right after that. We are back in touch now that I am back in Utah, but he keeps finding excuses on why we don't go fishing together. He must be an elephant. Long memory.[/#0000ff]
[signature]

[okbow68]

I guess if you had the right yak you could strap your tube to it, then cross the longer stretches in the yak. I have never done that before but I have been in a v bottom on lake texoma with about 6 other guys and all our tubes to get to the water we wanted to fish that was out in the middle of the lake, then tied the boat off and got into the tubes.
[signature]

[smallmouth89]

You're talking to the right guy. I have canoes kayaks tubes and a pontoon boat. I love all of them but I also need all of them.

Haven't used the canoe for quite a while since I fell in love with float tube fishing but with a five year old grandaughter who loves to fish I will be getting reaquainted with my canoe..

The float tube is by far the most efficient and best platform to fish from. If they ever designed a float tube like the Fat Cat that could move like my kayak I wouldn't need anything else.

The kayak is a marvellous vessel for getting around quickly on the water. I have kayak camped/fished since the 70's and I started using the kayak more than the canoes I started out with. I still have a sit in kayak that flies over the water but is not very efficient to fish from. Last year I bought a Tarpon 120 sit on top kayak which is a delight to fish from but not as efficient as fishing from my Fat Cat.

The pontoon boat is almost as good as the float tube when fishing a lake or pond using fins to position yourself just like in the tube. Being able to row it to cover water is a big advantage over the tube but it's higher profile makes it as prone to interference by wind as a canoe. Where I really love to use my Fish Cat 10 IR pontoon is in floating rivers with a buddy or two and more than one vehicle. It can't be beaten in that situation where you have another vehicle waiting for you at the take out.

The sit on top kayak is almost as good for river use as you can hop on and off at will to wade fish the good spots. The kayak is the only way to go if you solo on a river as you can paddle upstream and fish on the drift back down. Upstream travel with a pontoon boat would be like banging your head on a wall.

I have a reservoir near me that is always windy and the best fishing is always at the far end. I have used everything but my canoe in fishing this reservoir but if I'm smart I will use the kayak because I can get back to the car even in strong headwinds in 30 minutes. It takes an hour to row back in my pontoon and it takes two hours to kick back in my Fat Cat float tube. Since the wind is an issue I have to carry an anchor on my kayak whereas I could hold in position by finning my tube (pontoon as well but it's a little harder. My solution to fishing this reservoir efficiently is to pack my Glide Rider float tube (which has no foam blocks and rolls down nice and compact) into the tankwell of my Tarpon. Then I get the best of both worlds by pulling the yak up on shore at the destination and inflating and launching the tube. This is absolutely the most efficient way to fish larger bodies of water with an unpowered vessel.

As you can see your question definitely has more than one answer and if you can swing it with the wife you will end up with more than one fishing platform. But if you can only have one for now you've already got it. The Fish Cat is a good tube. So good that Outcast decided to use vinyl bladders in their higher end fat cats and Super Fat Cats.
I hope they still use urethane in the Prowler.
[signature]

[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Actually the "tube taxi" thing has been around for many years. On mighty Lake Powell and other large lakes it is common to find folks renting houseboats and packing their tubes aboard for a long ride to a secluded area where they beach the houseboat for a few days and fish from their tubes.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I also know serious bassaholics who strap a tube down on their tricked out bass boats and rocket uplake to a quiet cove...where they get out and fish from the tube. Some of these guys swear that they are able to learn a lot more about the waters they fish and the fishes' habits by getting up close and personal in their tubes. Of course they will never admit that during the club meetings. [/#0000ff]
[signature]

[SHigSpeed]

Tube taxi sounds awesome!! I'd love to do that but I'm sure I'd get some crazy looks from the spouse...

I think for a 170 pounder like myself, the FC4 is fine and the SFC is overkill (flotation and $$).

I really appreciate the time you took to lay out all of your experience though. Wonder if you could somehow add oarlocks to a FC4/SFC and kneel on the seat and semi-efficiently oar with some speed? One could lay back the seatback for more space and go to town? I may have to give that idea a shot! Too bad you couldn't put foils on it and row up on plane and fly. I think the biggest drag on a FC/SFC type tube is the seat bottom. If there could be a way to pull up the seat bottom and load the sides more and row, maybe we could get close to 'toon speed. Unfortunately, the draft would be pretty deep as there's not much length to distribute the load so that's a problem...

Ah, dreaming is fun.

_SHig
[signature]

[smallmouth89]

Just to stir the pot a little more out on the salt they sometimes have kayak taxi service.

I think for a 170 pounder like myself, the FC4 is fine and the SFC is overkill (flotation and $$).

I'm only 185 but my 6'1" frame fits nicely in a Fat Cat . In my situation it's ironic that i have a Fat Cat and my buddy, who is a fat cat has a Fish Cat 4 like yours with the inflateable seats. When he sits in his tube the pontoons are deeper in the water at the back than at the front. That would not make for efficient kicking.

My Fat Cat is 8 years old and still going strong although I am expecting its eventual replacement any day as I was able to find a clearance price on an original model which still has urethane bladders. At first I didn't like the foam seat because it would be a hassle to backpack the tube but I grew to really like it and lucked into a wonderful deal on a used Wood River Glide Rider which has become my backpacking tube.

Hey Pat,
I'm not looking forward to stuffing the foam into the seat bottom. Last time i was convinced that i had got a faulty product. Any hints besides perseverance and patience?
You guys with the ODC's is it just as hard to install the foam seatblocks?

God Bless,
Don
[signature]

[Majja]

I was able to try before I bought. A buddy of mine let me take his toon out a few ties to see if I liked it. I really enjoyed the speed I could cover water but I just could not ever get comfy finning in it. I really prefer my tube over his toon. Now to add one more monkey to the house you can always add a motor to a toon and control it with your fins while it pulls you around. But with this you may have to register it as a boat, or at least we do hear in Utah.

But Hey if I were King we all would have one of each along with that tricked out bass Sled.

Majja
[signature]

[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Getting the foam blocks in your new tube is one of the "rites of passage". In spite of what your initial attempts suggest, THEY WILL GO IN.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]It helps to fully inflate the air chambers first and then let out most of the air. Stretches things a bit and makes a more stable base for working with the blocks. Too much remaining air will reduce the space.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Second suggestion is to wet the foam down with water first, and or shoot some water inside the PVC pocket of the craft before trying to stuff the foam inside. Both of those materials are naturally non-slippery and resist easy insertion. A bit of lubrication helps. NO...DO NOT USE AXLE GREASE.[/#0000ff]
[signature]

[Majja]

Mine was installed right out of the package.
[signature]

[flygoddess]

Don't own a Kayak. Never saw the need because of the NO hands free fishing end. I do see their advantages however. Just not on windy waters other than exercise and cruising.
But, then I don't see a TUBE as an advantage over a Pontoon other than size (such as being able to throw them in a boat then TAXI as you put it.
When we had our 18 1/2' Rinker, we tied Pontoons on the back and drug them across the lake.
I will also agree that a Pontoon might be slightly more effected by wind, but they are easy to control by feet or dropping an oar.
I do know I had a race with a Kayak (oar power) and I did keep up with him on my pontoon.

The ONLY advantage I see to a Tube over a Pontoon (due to the fact, there are some Pontoons that come with backpacking features) is PRICE and WEIGHT.

My brother had a "V" tube which did spring a leak in the middle of a lake. Huffing and puffing he made it to shore minus one rod.
On the other hand, my hubby forgot to cinch down one of his pontoons. During rough water it came untethered. He made it to shore dragging the other pontoon with his battery, motor and all three rods still intact because the FRAME didn't sink.

Pros and coms right down the line.

The problem with trying to add oars to a float tube are, first you need a brace for your feet. They are to short, but you could make one with straps and a bar. The other thing, is because they are short, once you get the feet up and lean back to row, you "V" will be dropping in the water causing more resistance.
It can be done, but the tube needs to be longer. The H3 I am sure can do it cause of it being 6' long. Then of course the Navigator II did do it, but it is 9' long.
AGAIN, the wind thing. You get blown around allot in a kayak because your feet aren't in the water to stop you. The same thing will happen in a pontoon, but also in a float tube. That is the beauty of a tube and toon.
BUT, a tube can't float in 6" of water (unless you get your feet up) which a Kayak and a Toon can. I have caught some NICE fish in 6" of water.


One more thing about Taxi. It is MUCH easier to get from a boat to a pontoon.[]

Just a little more Pros and Cons.
[signature]

[SHigSpeed]

The point about 6" of water and a tube is a good one that I was actually thinking of. I recently fished a weedy pond in my tube where a guy in a cheap raft paddled over the mats to nice holes where I had to fight to "break trail" through the hydrilla.

Clearly every day and piece of water has its ideal craft. I just need one of each, just as clearly!

_SHig
[signature]

[macfly55]

we all need one of each... [sly]... but then it would be a nightmare trying to transport of those at one time... [sly]

MacFly [cool]
[signature]

[smallmouth89]

The problem with trying to add oars to a float tube are, first you need a brace for your feet. They are to short, but you could make one with straps and a bar. The other thing, is because they are short, once you get the feet up and lean back to row, you "V" will be dropping in the water causing more resistance.
It can be done, but the tube needs to be longer. The H3 I am sure can do it cause of it being 6' long.

Joni,
When the H3 first came out didn't Dave have an add on rowing kit in mind?

In calm waters I think my pontoon moves as quickly as my kayak. I was quite pleased to note that. However against a headwind the kayak is low enough to cut through the wind efficiently whereas the "toon" plows through the wind with it's much higher profile. When I have to fight a strong headwind I'm always wishing I was in my kayak. It's also nice to see where you're going when you're working against the wind. You can aim for a definite target and avoid wavering slightly off course because you can't keep your destination in sight as well as you'd like.

I agree with your assessment of the pontoon as a great fishing platform but If I'm on a smaller body of water the tube is so much easier to carry and launch that it is the one I take with me.

As I said the pontoon really shines on river trips as long as you don't have to deal with upstream travel.

God Bless,
Don
[signature]

[flygoddess]

I look at it this way. Assume you had a choice to buy a full size pick up or a Geo. They both get the same miles per gallon, BUT, the full size has three choices of propulsion (flippers, oars or a motor) where as the geo one, possibly two (flippers, or an add on float power with motor).
Sure the Geo is easy to take to small parking lots or narrow roads, but the FULL SIZE, can haul, go places the Geo cannot, smoother ride.
You can load the Geo down, but now you aren't getting the same gas mileage, plus harder to maneuver (see).
And yes the Geo is less money and lighter, but the Full Size is stronger, lasts longer and if nothing else, re-sales higher.

As far as seeing where you are going, I understand what you are saying. I have never had a problem with that. Look to the point I need to go and start moving backwards towards it understanding it is easier to push, than to pull. Get close to the take out, on a pontoon I can turn around and row forward, can't do that in a tube, but, that might just be me.
There are pontoons of all shapes and sizes and there ARE LOW PROFILE pontoons. I guess that is why I don't understand the "getting blown around" part, is that I do have a LOW PROFILE. 12" diameter toons...most tubes are at least 12".
Plus I like the idea, I don't have to wear waders, just plain ol' hippers and I can stay warmer in the late fall.
I guess for me, if I had one choice, it would be the FULL SIZE PICK-UP....more bang for the buck, and don't really need anything else.
[signature]

[macfly55]

I like your analogy there sis.. but wont trucks sink in the water??

MacFly [cool]
[signature]

[flygoddess]

So will a GEO LOL
[signature]