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Utah should ban all bait completely, live, dead or stuff out of a bottle. The problem with bait is that it kills more fish than poachers do! Even when deeply hooked fish are released with a line trimmed hook, 50% will die. The slot limit at Strawberry is a prime example of a stupid law. People will fish with bait all day long trying to get that one big fish they can keep & will release a lot of deeply hooked fish that die.
Utah should go to a two trout limit statewide & ban bait where they have slot limits.
GUIDEMAN
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here is the problem with that!!! Myself and I'm sure many others do the same.. Any way when I'm out on the tube I'm usually drifting a worm around while working a jig or a spinner or crank bait ect.. And when I hook a fish while drifting it is genraly just barely hooked now I won't lie I have caught some fish that take the hook deep! But I've had just as many fish take a deep jig and spinner as well.. So the whole fish getting hooked deep because of bait works bolth ways as I've scene alot of artificial hooked deep as well.. And besides if they ban it 100% then how are the parents out there suppose to take the child out fishing and they have a good time.. It's much harder for a child to work any sort of artificial bait... Just my two cents..
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I'm sorry but that is just all BULL. Might as well ban fishing too why not. Ridiculous!
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The real problem is the slot limit, it does not work were you have bait fishing, because you have too release all the fish,even if they are deeply hooked. If you have 4 kids hooking fish all day long but they can't keep one because it's not 22" long. How many fish are going to die.
Slot limits and bait fishing does not work.
GUIDEMAN
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though i agree with you on the mortality issue, it probably wont happen. to many mom and pop places on the side of the road. to many kids out fishing in community ponds. to many weekend fisherman tossing worms along the banks. what about ice fisherman? the slot limit is a different issue all together.
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that is the most absurd thing ive read on this site. do you expect my 2 and 4 yr olds to be able to throw a spinner or rapala all day? would you want to deal with the tangles and knots if they even attempted it? or should they just sit and watch me fish? or better yet why dont i leave them home and not teach them and not get to spend time with them and not give them great memories. the recources we have belong to everyone here not just you. i agree the mortality part of it sucks but there is a price to be paid for everything, and them girls deserve every single good memory i can give them and if that means i gotta stock up on powerbait so be it.
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Oh I totally agree...the hundreds of carp that I catch on bait throughout the year really suffer because I hook them so deep. In fact it is so bad that they ALL die. Something must be done.
Get real.
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get real!! thats never going to happon!!!
it's the power bait and small treble hooks that get down deep and mess up the fish..
most the time i use circle hooks with minnows never gut hooked a fish with them..
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get real and off that pedastal[frown][:p][crazy]
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You Hit the nail on the head THE REAL PROBLEM IS THE SLOT. As the fish grew the slot was increased to Keep the majority of the fish in the slot. It's criminal to take a 18" fish home and enjoy it for dinner but you are required to return fish to the water that have no chance of survival. The fact that bait is allowed greatly increases the mortality rate. Anyone who has fished Strawberry has witnessed floating fish that are not managing to survive the experience of being hooked deep. I prefer the idea of taking fish home to killing and leaving them at the lake.
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The key to your issue is proper release methods. To say all or even most fish gut hooked are killed is just plain wrong. As an example I fished Strawberry last Saturday. Caught a Cutthroat that was 23 inches so kept it for supper.It had 2 different hooks in it belly. One was a 2/0 bait hook lodged in its stomach and the other was a 4 inch long deer hair streamer.( Flygoddes if you want your fly back PM me [  ]) It was a # 2 hook in the same area.(not sure how a fly could make that far down with out a fisherman knowing) To the point, the fish was very healthy an put up a great fight. That fly had to have been there for at least 1 month because the lake has been iced over.This fish was properly cared for and survived.
At least till it met me...[cool]Burp
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All you guys that are whining about having slot limits, why don't you take a drive up blacksmith fork canyon and see what happens when all you do is catch and release trout. You end up with a river chuck full of 6 to 8 inch fish. Get rid of the slot limits and let the bait fisherman keep the ones they hook deep. Slot limits for trout are dumb cause even if the fish doesn't swallow the hook, it might die an hour after being caught or two days. Get off your high horses and give me a break. A guy who says he's never fished with bait or killed a fish after catching it is a liar and has no business bitching at others. The only fish slot limits work well for are warm water fish, because they don't go belly up the second you get them reeled in.
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The biggest mortality rate is the millimeter they get out of the slot limit. which is why big ones are harder to catch. But in the past few years more and more fish that are bigger are being caught, I say the slot is actually working to bring about bigger fish. The problem is they are killed once out. I like to eat fish. I would like to see a mixed size bag though, taek some of the pressure off the bigger ones before the limit is caught. More rainbows at Strawberry
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]There is no way to win in this discussion, but I’ll add my two cents worth anyway. It’s a slow day today and I’m bored, so here goes.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]There is a small amount of sense to what Guideman is proposing. But you must understand exactly what that proposal is and its impact on the fishermen, women, and children of Utah. As I read his proposal, he was proposing a no bait restriction on only those waters having a slot limit. Right away folks are jumping on the proposal like it would be Satan turned loose on the world. I wonder how many of those folks actually know how many bodies of water have a slot limit. I did the research for you. There are 35 bodies of water listed in the proclamation that have a size restriction of either over a certain length (27), under a certain length (2), or both (slot)(7). Out of how many fishable bodies of water (there has to be hundreds) in the state?[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Breaking that down even further by either trout or bass, we find 9 bodies of water with a trout over a certain length restriction, 2 bodies of water with a trout under a certain length restriction, and 5 bodies of water with a trout slot limit restriction. That’s a total of only 16 bodies of water with a trout length restriction.[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Based on my limited knowledge of the bass fishing community, I would guess that there aren’t a whole lot of folks fishing for bass with bait. So for the time being, I’ll assume that Guideman was talking about a no bait rule primarily aimed at trout waters with length restrictions. And if he did in fact mean to limit that to only those waters with an actual ‘slot’ limit, we are talking about 5 (that’s right – 5) bodies of waters that would have a no bait restriction in Utah. Those 5 bodies are the Green River, Kolob, Mammoth Creek, Panguitch, and Strawberry.[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Now be honest; is this really going to have a major impact on your ability to take your children fishing on any given day and their enjoyment of the outing? I’m guessing not. But this is just one man’s opinion. Your mileage may vary.[/#800000][/font]
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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 81 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
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I think before you can make a claim like this you would first need to look at the specific body of water and identify if slot sized fish are truly being negatively affected by post-release mortality.
Obviously, many released fish die. But, is it truly a problem?
Case in point: Kolob Reservoir has special regulations that require artificial only techniques for the majority of the year. However, during the summer months bait is allowed, but the harvest rules are still restrictive and force numerous bait-caught fish to be released. Why? Because in this case SOME mortality is actually needed and beneficial to the fishery.
Strawberry has continued to produce large trout for numerous years now, even with a high percentage of anglers using bait. Obviously, allowing bait and forcing anglers to release a lot of bait-caught fish is not having any significant impact on the fishery. To the contrary, Strawberry is thriving under the current regulation scheme.
What I'd like to see are a handful of lakes that are "bait only" restrictions, where the use of artificial lures is against the law. Why not? Give a place for bait fishermen to get away from the snobby elitists that look down their noses at them.
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It really isn't the fact that it's bait or artificial if you are truly this passionate about trying to make an easy release then crimp your barbs or use barbless hooks.
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[quote GUIDEMAN]. The slot limit at Strawberry is a prime example of a stupid law. [/quote]
Hmmm...based on the history of Strawberry, the quote above seems stupid. Here's why:
Around 1945 nongame fish were introduced into Strawberry. By 1960, 90% of the biomass in the reservoir was comprised of chubs. In 1961, the reservoir was treated with rotenone to kill the chubs. But, around 1972, some idiot again illegally introduced chubs back into the reservoir and by the mid 80's over 90% of the biomass in the reservoir was again comprised of chubs. So, in 1990, the largest known rotenone treatment project was undertaken and the chub population was knocked back significantly (not all the chubs were killed nor expected to be killed by this project). Since that time, the DWR has had a slot limit at Strawberry that protected trout that would/could prey on chubs and, at the same time, allowed it to remain a family fishery by allowing bait fishing. Since this plan was implemented, biologists have carefully monitored the lake, the chub population, and the trout population and know that the plan is working. But, don't take their word for it...just look at how well the reservoir has maintained excellent fishing for so long despite the presence of chubs. Just look at the history of the reservoir and you can see that the slot limit is protecting enough fish to help keep the chub population from booming and the trout population from crashing...
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Who are you, the worst fish-killer in Utah, to say anything about harvest, or bans, or fishing mortality?
Utah should ban guides from killing 20-50 year old lake trout! Utah should ban the killing of fish that can't be replaced before the guide killing them passes away.
All fish die when you swing 'em in the boat and bonk 'em on the head and put 'em in the box!!!!!!!!!
Try selective harvest, and let ALL of the large fish go.
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Quote:Even when deeply hooked fish are released with a line trimmed hook, 50% will die.
I think you need to do some research before you go posting stuff like this around.
There has been many studies done that show the mortality rate far lower than 50%. Fact is fish left in the water and the line trimmed have more like a 90% survival rate.
Most of the size restriction have nothing or little to do with the purpose to catch bigger fish. They’re in place for biological reason. Since Strawberry was mentioned in this thread I will start there. The main reason Strawberry has a slot limit is because of CHUBS. In studies that were done the fish in the slot limit showed a higher consumption of smaller chubs. By having the slot limit the fish are allow to consume the largest amout of chubs possible. It was shown that once fish reach a larger size they eat larger and fewer chubs. It is the same reason Scofield now has a size limit. Other lakes have them for the same reason. It not only applies to trout waters.
There are a few lakes that I fish outside of Utah that only have bass and rainbows. The bass are there to eat other fish like chubs so that they don’t compete with the resources needed to grow large trout AND IT WORKS.
Now it may be true that there is a higher mortality rate when it comes to bait fishermen but bait fishermen are more likely to take their catch home anyway if allowed so you could get rid of the slot limit but then you have more fish being consumed.
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+1 wormanbobber. I was trying to write the same thing at the sametime.
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