Cimarron mods? TM mount?

[SanDiegoBassin]

Hey fellas!

I stumbled on this site this morning and it is great! Everyone posting pics is very savoy when it comes to customizing their rides. It has giving me a huge burst of modivation! im ready to start a basic project.

I have a Cimarron 8' id like to mount my minnkota 36.lb on the stern, for an over the shoulder operation. There is a canvis storage on the rear but im going to build a pvc storage rack behind the seat resting on the pontoons. My goal is to have the batterie and TM mounted to the pvc storage rack.

Is it a good idea to mount a TM on this pontoon?
Has anyone mounted a TM on a cimarron?
Does anybody have some pics they can reccomend that may help me?

Thanks for your time and reading my post!
As soon as I start I will post some pics.

[flygoddess]

WELCOME SDB, glad you found and joined us here.
I am going to start off with you can mount a motor on anything pretty much.

Some issues to address. The Rockers on your pontoon are very extreme. Designed for white water. Because there is a small center portion of the pontoon in the water is limiting your Weight capacity so be sure not to exceed that.
Ron has a similar pontoon and will hopefully jump in with hands on experiences.

You will need to slide your frame as far forward on the pontoons as you can. Then make sure the battery is right behind the seat to put the weight center. Most batteries are going to be around 50+ lbs.

I personally don't trust PVC as much as many others here, so I wouldn't make a motor mount and battery holder out of it. I am the Aluminum girl. PVC can be effected by temp. But, several here use it.

The main thing will be to slide your frame forward to equal out the weight. Here is an example of what NOT to do:


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[SanDiegoBassin]

Thanks for the quick reply!
The aluminum would be a much stronger frame, but do to budget and lack of a welder I have to build as strong of a pvc frame as I can for now im hoping it wont fail. haha
Some glue and a few screws I think it should hold ?

Once I have decided on a functional design I will build it out of aluminum. But I know im going to mess with the layout a few times. [cool]

Does anybody have suggestions on a keel or the toon?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I'll mostly echo the input you have already gotten. That toon is designed mostly for "light" action with fins and oars. It is not long enough to easily support the addition of the extra weight of a heavy battery and motor. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Yes, you can do it, but you might need to add some extra floatation to the rear with boat bumpers, such I have done on my float tube. (see pic) The trick will be attaching them securely without creating extra drag or potential snagging while launching or beaching.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Otherwise, you will find that you have to relocate the seat much further forward and may not be able to use the oars efficiently.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I am sure you could rig a suitable PVC platform with 1" schedule 40 PVC. The heavy guage aluminum would be better but as a trial run you could "go white". You might even make a PVC frame and then put a plywood "roof" on it...or use the bottom of a Rubbermaid plastic container.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Good luck and let us know how your experimenting goes.[/#0000ff]
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[SanDiegoBassin]

I'm going to first try moving the frame forward for the weight distribution.
I'm not going to use the oars if I have the motor and fins. My total weight will be around 320lbs. The toon is rated at 375.lbs

Thanks for pics everyone they are very helpful !

I will give the bumper a try, i'm going to mount them level with the water line to hopefully lesson the drag.

Thanks again for all the help!
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]If you are considering bumpers, you might wanna think about using the design for a one piece motor mount and bumper contraption I have completed...and will be water-testing in the next few days. All you need to do is attach the rear to the underside of the frame or seat...and the front to the rear of your pontoons so that the motor mount is as far back as possible. The battery will still take some engineering. I have a back pocket on my tube but you can still create a rear deck/platform.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Very nice and clean! I just think a strap of sorts across the top of the tube/toon. Make it more a part of the tube, specially if the water is choppy or turning, but at second look I see the green bungie.
That is cool, a flote power of sorts. Keep up the good work.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I have been using a double bungee cord system to anchor the front of the mount to the top/front of the tube and it works great. I run them up through the hole in the nose of the tube and it gets 'er done.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]This new model makes for quick install and removal for trips when I do not want or need the motor...or when I need more compact storage on long trips.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Glad you approve. I know you have "evolved" far beyond the need for such a modification.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Ah, but I might not have needed to with these new up dates[]
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[albinotrout]

Sounds like an interesting project. They do make different sizes of bumpers. I would recommend the larger ones for a toon.

Here is a pic of my latest creation for a toon without a motor mount let alone frame. I used an outcast motor mount attached to PVC Both schedule 20, 40 and 80 for added strength. All 1 inch of course. This is a remake of one that I did a couple of years ago that was starting to fall apart. I should have it completed by the end of the week if the weather holds out.[cool]

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[Hnaf]

This has been hinted at with some of the replies, but I'll give it more emphasis. The Cimarron frame is the same frame as the Arrow Backpacker model with a different seat. I weigh in near 240lbs and I don't have any unusual heavy gear I carried around. I went through two frames for my Arrow backpacker with both failing on the same set of joints. The joints that failed are were on the "D" pieces where the short stubs that point in are welded on. So I guess I'm just saying a bit more strongly then what others have said that the toon you have is a light weight toon.

Here is the thread that includes some of what happened on my second frame failure.
http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gfo...014;page=1

So the short message from me is if you do this give your frame a very solid look over and inspect the welds. I'd then get to know your frame well enough that each trip you can give it a look over and watch for any issues forming.
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[SanDiegoBassin]

Thank you very much for shooting me straight! Your photos are what inspired me to go out in the garage and build something.
So I got the Cimarron used for 50$ on the side of the road not knowing anything about it but I did inspect it. It had some stains and a little bit of rust on one of the bars but I sanded and re-painted the rusty spots.
Ive only used it twice, I bought it specifically for Barrett lake here in San Diego co. I will only be taking it out 3-5 times a month which is lite use to me. Im hoping after reading the horror stories I will be ok.
Im thinking maybe I could wrap the metal frame in 3/4" pvc the help keep the weather and water out? Anyone try this before?
Thanks for all the input everybody it is extremely helpful!

[url "http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080602.jpg"][/url]










I added these pins for easy on and off the toon, weight distribution is a factor as seen in the photo by Flygoddess. So I extended the pvc frame to go under the seat in an attempt to move the weight forward. If I get off early enough today im going to give it a try, without tackle and gear ofcourse.

Sorry about the pics im not sure how this site uploads yet, I just copied and paste from photobook its very easy. no resizing and no downloading but My pics did not come up.
Im going to paint it and dial it in throughout the month in anticipation for opening da at Barrett
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[flygoddess]

Your pictures aren't coming through.
Just be sure and check your welds often. I would think covering the frame could create more of a problem specially if ANY water got in.
Sanding, primer and painting is the best bet.

I am going t add one observation. I have been tooning for a long while. The idea and beauty of a toon is the small foot print it lays on the water. It cuts through the water like waterskis. Buy adding bumpers or whatever you are increasing that foot print meaning more drag. That is why a pontoon cuts through water better than a float tube.

Granted, adding the bumpers going the same direction as the toon will help, but it is still a larger foot print/water resistance.
A good example was my Cardiac Canyon versus the Outcast Double..... the CC moved much easier.

Now short jaunts and the fact you don't plan on using it often, I answer with, you CAN add a motor to anything. But, long haul, I would definitely look for a better built boat.

Just remember to follow coast guard laws, and be sure and have a whistle, rope, PFD and license the boat.
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[pontoonman]

The cimmaron/arrow backpacker uses very thin tubing which takes extreme skill to weld and can not be done reliably by mass production. You get burn through on the joints and they will be weak. Large number of reviews on frame collapse for this reason. I would have someone reweld the stress postion welds for safety.
Assembly and tear down is time consuming on these boats with many parts, and the toons and bladders are extremely thin. There is reviews on this in the archives. They are designed for back packing and very light weight cargo carrying, so if you can keep it under 180# or so TOTAL weight, might be OK, ie, no troll motors. Pvc coating will increase the rust problem due to trapped moisture.

Sorry but that is what I have read and experience from a couple of friends...

Pon

dquote SanDiegoBassin]Thank you very much for shooting me straight! Your photos are what inspired me to go out in the garage and build something.
So I got the Cimarron used for 50$ on the side of the road not knowing anything about it but I did inspect it. It had some stains and a little bit of rust on one of the bars but I sanded and re-painted the rusty spots.
Ive only used it twice, I bought it specifically for Barrett lake here in San Diego co. I will only be taking it out 3-5 times a month which is lite use to me. Im hoping after reading the horror stories I will be ok.
Im thinking maybe I could wrap the metal frame in 3/4" pvc the help keep the weather and water out? Anyone try this before?
Thanks for all the input everybody it is extremely helpful!

[url "http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080602.jpg"][/url]http://i736.photobucket.com/..._20110302_080602.jpg[/url]
[url "http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080634.jpg"][/url]http://i736.photobucket.com/..._20110302_080634.jpg[/url]

[url "http://i736.photobucket.com/..._20110302_080610.jpg"][/url]http://i736.photobucket.com/..._20110302_080610.jpg[/url]

I added these pins for easy on and off the toon, weight distribution is a factor as seen in the photo by Flygoddess. So I extended the pvc frame to go under the seat in an attempt to move the weight forward. If I get off early enough today im going to give it a try, without tackle and gear ofcourse.

Sorry about the pics im not sure how this site uploads yet, I just copied and paste from photobook its very easy. no resizing and no downloading but My pics did not come up.
Im going to paint it and dial it in throughout the month in anticipation for opening da at Barrett[/quote]
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[albinotrout]

Interesting design. I am interested to know how it works.
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[flygoddess]

[quote SanDiegoBassin]Thank you very much for shooting me straight! Your photos are what inspired me to go out in the garage and build something.
So I got the Cimarron used for 50$ on the side of the road not knowing anything about it but I did inspect it. It had some stains and a little bit of rust on one of the bars but I sanded and re-painted the rusty spots.
Ive only used it twice, I bought it specifically for Barrett lake here in San Diego co. I will only be taking it out 3-5 times a month which is lite use to me. Im hoping after reading the horror stories I will be ok.
Im thinking maybe I could wrap the metal frame in 3/4" pvc the help keep the weather and water out? Anyone try this before?
Thanks for all the input everybody it is extremely helpful!

[.img]http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080634.jpg[/img][url "http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080602.jpg"][/url]
[.IMG]http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080641.jpg[/IMG]

[.IMG]http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080602.jpg[/IMG]

[.IMG]http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx3/ulricbella/IMG_20110302_080610.jpg[/IMG]





I added these pins for easy on and off the toon, weight distribution is a factor as seen in the photo by Flygoddess. So I extended the pvc frame to go under the seat in an attempt to move the weight forward. If I get off early enough today im going to give it a try, without tackle and gear ofcourse.

Sorry about the pics im not sure how this site uploads yet, I just copied and paste from photobook its very easy. no resizing and no downloading but My pics did not come up.
Im going to paint it and dial it in throughout the month in anticipation for opening da at Barrett[/quote]



So, you are mounting the motor off to one side? Make sure it clears the pontoon.
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[SanDiegoBassin]

Yea I dont want to lean to the side for 20 min while I cross the lake. hahaha . big 10-4 the prop will clear the toons by about 10"











If I notice the toon tracking weird or not straight. I may use tubedudes idea with the knuckle and throttle extension
so i can reposition the tm to the center of the toon then I can steer and sit up straight.

I still have a long way to go, from the photos ive seen on this site it looks like a lot you modify several times until 90% satisfied[cool]. So im sure this will be the same route for me.
I haven't bought the bumpers yet but when i do my plan is to put one on the inside rear of each toon.
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[albinotrout]

[quote SanDiegoBassin]

If I notice the toon tracking weird or not straight. I may use tubedudes idea with the knuckle and throttle extension
so i can reposition the tm to the center of the toon then I can steer and sit up straight.

[/quote]

You will find that the best way to steet is not by the motor but by using your feet with fins. Keep the motor in a locked position so that it pulls you (yes backwards) then your feet will do the work of steering. I was using this method with another bfter who had just rigged his toon. He thought that he could use the motor to do the steering but found that it did not work at all while I was doing circles around him. My motor is mounted right behind me so the handle comes right behind my head where I can easily turn it on or off or adjust the speed. I like what it looks like so far. Keep us updated to how it works out on the water for you.[cool]
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[albinotrout]

I also noticed in one of your pics that your motor needs to be turned around still. You want your handle and the prop on the same side. There is a small screw just under the head of the motor that will let you turn the head around.

Also how many straps will you have to hold the mount to the frame? Looking at it you might want more than two spots where you attach. At least two per side would be my recommendation. I use cam straps on mine and use a total of 4 to keep it in place. But then I attach mine directly to the pontoons since I don't have much frame to work with.

Lookin good!!![cool]
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[SanDiegoBassin]

Thanks for checking it out!
In my pic there is one strap under the seat front attaching both the pvc frame and the metal toon frame. When I get on the water I plan on having 6 different straps to hold the pvc frame to the toon frame. I figure have an extra one or two. This project is still in its infancy.
Thanks for the heads up about turning the tm head. But now im much more concerned with the rear weight and the battery location. Im curious if I could lift the seat up and install the battery directly under me, to help with weight distribution?
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