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Went to Strawberry on Friday and had a really good day, my dad even caught a 7lb/24in Cutt! We let him go to catch another day, hopefully he gets even bigger this summer so I can catch him on the fly rod. We were fishing over on the Soldier Creek side and were some of the last ones to leave. On our way back I looked down and saw a plastic bag that you would get at a pet store, about 1/3 full of water with a few minnows in it! They were dead when I picked it up but they were alive when they were brought out onto the lake it looked like! This really upset me because the week before we were up at Strawberry and we walked by a guy that had about 5 or 6 Cutts sitting in his sled! None of which were out of the slot! Two weeks in a row I had to see crap like that! Man I love fishing Strawberry because the great fish you can catch, but if too many people continue to pull crap like this it wont be fun for the rest of us in the future!
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That is bad news. Thanks for reporting it, though. Maybe a guilty party will read your post and wake up to the regulations!
Sorry you had to see that, too.
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Did you report it to the DWR? Either time? 1-800-662-DEER (3337), or *DEER on a cell phone. Take pictures if you can. Say something like "Wow, great catch. Can I get a picture?" Or just take one as you walk by. Did you get any license plates of vehicles left when the guy had the slot cutts? If you turn a blind eye to this stuff it will get worse. If they get reported the DWR will have a better chance at bustin' them.
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[quote Fishrmn]Did you report it to the DWR? Either time? 1-800-662-DEER (3337), or *DEER on a cell phone. Take pictures if you can. Say something like "Wow, great catch. Can I get a picture?" Or just take one as you walk by. Did you get any license plates of vehicles left when the guy had the slot cutts? If you turn a blind eye to this stuff it will get worse. If they get reported the DWR will have a better chance at bustin' them.[/quote]
+1 You beat me to this, TURN THERE ASSES IN!! all the rest of use follow the rules these people that get away with this crap ruin the fishing for all of use, so take down these numbers for next time and do what you can to alert the dwr of what there doing.
congrats to your dad on the 24 incher. and thanks for posting.
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Good luck getting the fish & game to do anything. Unless they happen to be right there, or its something big like a deer or elk they "don't have the manpower to pursue" the issue. Twice I have reported violations and had date, time, vehicle description and license plate and even pictures once of those involved. Neither time was anything done. I even called back a couple of weeks later, which is when I got the response in quotes above.
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When I found the Bag of minnows nobody was around, it was almost dark and we were just walking back to the parking area. And the week earlier when we saw the guy with the bucket full of Cutts, I guess I just didn't feel like there was anything I could do. We have reported groups taking more than their limit before and the DWR said it would be hard to do anything about it if they weren't physically there to witness it in the act. The guy we talked to gave us his direct number and said next time we see anything to call him directly. Although I appreciated him giving us his direct number, My intent in calling was to see someone take action immediately for what we saw. After this I guess I lost a little faith, but either way I agree I should have called right away.
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If they see a pattern they might make the effort to check it out. If you really make an effort you'll see results. I've got the phone numbers of a couple of C.O.s. If they get a text with a picture of a license plate and a location they know where to look. As for not being able to do anything unless they can catch them in the act, that's when I'd get into the C.O.s face. If they have more than their limit in their possession, it doesn't matter whether they witnessed it or not. It wouldn't matter if they were at the water, in their camp, in their vehicle, or if they had made it all the way to their home. Over the limit is over the limit, and can be prosecuted.
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If you are able to report a violation such as the ones you've mentioned, there is a chance it can be investigated in a timely manner. It won't always happen because there are roughly 65 Wildlife Resources law enforcement officers to cover the entire state. I can assure you reports are taken seriously and they are investigated whenever possible.
If you and others like you who value the state's wildlife want to contribute to the protection of the resource, please call and provide as much information as you can.
I know during my years as a Wildlife Officer I always appreciated calls from the public and I would rather have several wild goose chases than to miss a true violation. I know most , if not all, of the current Conservation Officers feel the same way.
Just a note about the bag of minnows. It may have been an indication of a violation or it could have just been a bag of frozen minnows with melted ice still in the bag. It would be difficult to keep minnows alive in a plastic bag because they wouldn't have enough oxygen to last very long. On the other hand, transporting live minnows from water to water is how illegal introductions take place and it's why it's illegal to use live fish for bait anywhere in Utah.
Mike
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How quickly dwr physically responds to a call all depends on location location location. If you see someone doing something wrong, and you know they're in one of three vehicles in a lot, give the person all three tags and vehicle descriptions.
As fisherman and outdoorsmen (and women-lest I forget ), its our responsibility to be stewards over our resources and defend them from our thoughtless or ignorant brethren.
Always make the call. In this day and age of cell phones with cameras built in, it's too convenient not to.
josh
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[quote TopH2O]If you are able to report a violation such as the ones you've mentioned, there is a chance it can be investigated in a timely manner. It won't always happen because there are roughly 65 Wildlife Resources law enforcement officers to cover the entire state. I can assure you reports are taken seriously and they are investigated whenever possible.
If you and others like you who value the state's wildlife want to contribute to the protection of the resource, please call and provide as much information as you can.
I know during my years as a Wildlife Officer I always appreciated calls from the public and I would rather have several wild goose chases than to miss a true violation. I know most , if not all, of the current Conservation Officers feel the same way.
Just a note about the bag of minnows. It may have been an indication of a violation or it could have just been a bag of frozen minnows with melted ice still in the bag. It would be difficult to keep minnows alive in a plastic bag because they wouldn't have enough oxygen to last very long. On the other hand, transporting live minnows from water to water is how illegal introductions take place and it's why it's illegal to use live fish for bait anywhere in Utah.
Mike[/quote]
That makes sense, but it doesn't explain why they don't allow live bait to be used where you catch it.
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[quote cloose]
That makes sense, but it doesn't explain why they don't allow live bait to be used where you catch it.[/quote]
'Cause it's hard enough to stop it when there is a blanket law against it. If they allowed the use of live minnows if they were caught at the water, some jerk would bring (possibly diseased) minnows with him because he can't catch live minnows through the ice. Or they'd bring a new species of minnow and turn it loose and if it gets established they'd say "I caught 'em here, why can't I use 'em for bait?" That's how golden shiners got established at Newcastle, and Kolob reservoirs. IF people would obey the law [crazy][crazy] then it wouldn't be a bad thing to allow you to catch a minnow somewhere and put it on a hook to catch game fish. But some people obviously don't or won't obey the law.
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Your post is proof that you are a good guy. You don't think like a law breaker, trying to work an angle. You think like a sportsman. The problem is the people that want to cheat and work the system and ruin it for everyone else.
It is easier for the officer to prove fishing with live bait than to have to prove where it originated from. I am sure that is the main reason that chubs and other trash have to be killed immediately or returned to the water. They can't cause any greater harm if handled that way.
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A total prohibition against the use of live fish for bait is necessary in Utah due to the unique nature of our fisheries. Utah has many reservoirs that have little or no reproduction of the trout species. The Utah DWR has hatcheries that raise trout to stock in the various lakes and streams to supplement the low reproduction rates. It makes economic sense to raise the trout to fingerling size and then let them grow in the reservoirs. Small trout complete with the other fish in the reservoirs for the available plankton. Other non-game fish also feed on the plankton, so the competition is bad for the young trout.
If Utah were to allow the use of live fish for bait, we would soon see shiners, fathead minnows, chubs and all sorts of minnow species in all of our lakes competing directly with the small trout we all want to become large trout.
States that don't have to contend with raising and releasing small fingerling trout don't have to worry about the competition from non-game species. Those other species are also almost always present in the lakes of other states. By eliminating the competition from non-game fish, Utah can produce quality trout fisheries in lakes that can't naturally produce their own young fish. Even in a reservoir such as Strawberry, the DWR supplements the natural reproduction to increase the number of fish available to anglers.
Bottom line is that the use of live fish is not compatible with a system that depends on the reservoirs growing trout from fingerling size to the size we want to catch. Do your part and obey the regs and report any violations to help the thinly spread Wildlife Officers do their jobs.
Mike
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I called a fishing violation in last year. I was able to stick around and report on what was happening and where the violators were until the CO got there. Then they watched the violators for a while before they busted them. Later, I received a thank you letter from DWR. They care but it does make a difference if there is someone around close enough to get there or not. Either way report all violations that is your duty.
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[quote TopH2O]A total prohibition against the use of live fish for bait is necessary in Utah due to the unique nature of our fisheries. Utah has many reservoirs that have little or no reproduction of the trout species. The Utah DWR has hatcheries that raise trout to stock in the various lakes and streams to supplement the low reproduction rates. It makes economic sense to raise the trout to fingerling size and then let them grow in the reservoirs. Small trout complete with the other fish in the reservoirs for the available plankton. Other non-game fish also feed on the plankton, so the competition is bad for the young trout.
If Utah were to allow the use of live fish for bait, we would soon see shiners, fathead minnows, chubs and all sorts of minnow species in all of our lakes competing directly with the small trout we all want to become large trout.
Hi, Mike
Thanks for taking the time to respond and all you others too.
First, I will admit that I tend to be abrasive to some and that I tend to think differently than a lot of Gov. employees. So if I offend you , that isn't my intent but I just don't have the self control to not point out what I feel is an obvious flaw in logic.
First, I assume that you must have missed my point about having to catch the bait at the body of water that you are using it at. This is what most fishermen do in my limited experience in 4 different states. So that would address the problem you raise with introducing anything where you would be fishing.
Second, because of the first issue, I think every one would agree that if you caught the bait there then it would actually help cut down on the competition with the fingerlings by killing the minnows for bait which is what you are trying to do.
So based on this, your logic doesn't make the best sense. I think the only reason that backs up the DWR's logic is the few dumb A'...s that just don't care or understand that do break the rules and it is just easier to ban everything to make it easier catch the bad twits.
That's where you and I disagree. I don't feel that punishing every one to catch a few is reasonable. It just goes further and further in all areas of our lives. There is almost always other ways to find a balance then to just take a total ban . I understand that this seems like a attack on the DWR and possibly you but as citizens , I feel we have to make our voices heard or I can't complain when I don't agree with public policies.
thanks again all, Curt
PS. If you would like to discuss some options that might work, feel free to email me anytime. Its in my profile.
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[quote Fishrmn]If they see a pattern they might make the effort to check it out.[/quote]
What do you mean "If they see a pattern" They need to get out of the marina at Strawberry bay it also takes being seen. I have fished Strawberry since after they cleaned it up. up until a few years ago I was checked every time. Now If am checked I would be surprised . I have called their C.O I dont know how many times. Still this crap keep going and going it never fails
So If I take action and catch these guys what do I do? take picture? get a plate number? for what?
its getting to the point that the next time I catch someone I am just going to slap the heck of them....
Sorry this is just getting way to out of hand up there. ![[Image: angry.gif]](http://www.bigfishtackle.com/images/gforum/angry.gif)
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If this was just trout lakes in Utah I and others mite agree with you and the DWR but our lakes or most of them are not just trout lakes...
And trout is not what most people would fish for if they had a choice...In the US trout is # five down the list, but in Utah they almost only grow trout for restocking and let any other type of fish have there ups and downs...
If a lake gets fished out of trout they just restock it but if the same lake gets fished out of the Perch or bass or Walleye they just say its on a low or crash and let it recover on its own and in most lakes that is years if ever...Oh but the DWR and others say that the other fish are not suited for our lakes...but trout are better suited??
If they are? Why do they need to plant so many???
And why is it that other lakes (out side of Utah) want the minnows as food for all the game fish, and they say the more food the more and bigger the game fish will get...
I have fished all over and never seen or heard of a lake or river that had too much food or minnows in it, so why does the UT DWR try so hard to get read of them???
Even trout eat minnow when they reach a size and they need them to grow bigger, like at the Berry and a few other lakes now that poisoning is too costly...
Look at Powell over the last 15 years...Ups and downs, then the shad showed up and BOOM all the game fish in the lake are getting fat and more of them then before...
Look at the Berry YES the Berry now cause of the chubs and other minnows the slot limit was put on and now you have a great trout lake with lots of fish over 20"...
All of the better lakes with or that have the bigger fish in them have minnows in them and the more minnows they have the more and bigger game fish they produce...
In other states you can buy minnow at the lakes or marinas on the lakes, so why is Utah so backward???
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Bassrods,
You make some good points but I think you missed the heart of my previous post. Utah is almost unigue in our mix of lakes and reservoirs. In order to have fingerling trout grow to a decent size, we need to eliminate as much competition for the available (plankton) food as we can for the young trout.
Most other states don't face Utah's situation. I agree it's not all the trout waters with the issue. Unfortunately there are those people out there that wouldn't adhere to the regs if we allowed minnows for bait in a reservoir such as Starvation, but prohibited them elsewhere. Unlawful introductions would be much harder to investigate, so Utah has decided on a total ban on the use of live fish.
I'm a very serious fisherman. I have fished many years in other states and I understand the results you can get with live minnows, especially on crappie and walleye. But for Utah to continue to offer such a wide variety of fishing opportunities, we need to provide the trout fisheries with the best conditions for the lowest cost. That means letting the lakes and reservoirs grow the trout from fingerling to catchable size with the least amount of competition from unwanted species.
I hope this helps you and others understand it's a complex problem and the professional fisheries managers feel our current regulations provide the best set of guidelines to help provide anglers with quality opportunites on the water.
Mike
[#0000ff]Again let me state for the record that I am a retired DWR law enforcement officer and my postings are only my opinion and not the official position of the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources.[/#0000ff]
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You may have missed the point as well..
Utah could grow less trout in numbers but grow them to a bigger size and if they sold minnows of the type that they put in Yuba and nine mile ( I forget the name) the trout love them and grow good on them....And if that was the only minnow that was ok to sell...
And if the state made it so only at the lakes they could be sold, and even if the leftovers from fishing the day got released in the lake no harm would be done...
+ it would or could make more money and jobs for the state and marinas as well... Taxes and money for the DWR...A win win for all ...[crazy]
Times change some for the good and some bad, but if you put your head in the sand you could go blind...
I am trying to look at as many way as I can, I don't use bait or plain to but I can see no harm, from any lawful person or fisherman and do NOT want the law breakers to say how or what I can or cannot do..
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Just like in wyoming, they plant FOOD istead of things that eat food! Wait till you start getting bashed by the trouters that dont have any idea that rainbow trout are NOT native to utah and that no fish is "native" to a man made impoundment. Like my argument, if walleye, bass, perch, ect dont do well in utahs man made ecosystems, then why are they so worried about illegal planting? Wouldnt their theory dictate they would all die anyway? Its the TROUT that dont do worth a damn and that why they have to plant bajillions of them every year! If the fish start running out of food, THEN PLANT FREAKIN FOOD. Now wheres my  y eating the popcorn[fishin]
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