Looking for some pontoon advice

[jer_fishes]

I've been in a float tube since I was 14, but am now looking into buying a pontoon to add to my fleet. Now I'm a poor...dirt poor...college student so I wanna spend what little money I have wisely. There's three I've had my eye on.

The Colorado from TU
The 9' Outcast Sportsman's Warehouse and
A used Outcast Fish Cat Panther

My price range is 500-600 and lower. I'm looking for something that I could put a trolling motor on as well. So please share with me your thoughts and the pros/cons of each craft. Also if you have any other recommendations shoot em my way[]

Thanks!
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[EvilTyeDyeTwin]

AVOID CREEK COMPANY PONTOONS!!!!

My twin and I bought one this spring $210 each. Mine lasted 10 days before I broke the seat. $45 to replace that! Then within 25 days my twin's toon went flat! Total Mystery flat, not even tube dude could find it. So we sent it back to the company under warranty.

Sure enough they sent back a new sleave and what we thought was a new air bladder. My twin took it out and about a half an hour later his seat broke, an oar lock broke, and the toon rapidly deflated! (It was on sept. 11th 2011, he claimed that was his own personal 911)

We sent it back stating they must not have replaced the air bladder at all and sure enough they sent us another one. Still trying to get enough money together to replace the other parts so we have not tested out the new bladder. I am crossing my fingers that mine will last for the rest of the season.

Do you get the picture?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]The three you mentioned are all decent craft in their price ranges. And all have the size, strength and adjustability to add electric motors and maintain a good level ride. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The Colorado has been popular for several years. It is a tough, heavy craft. In former models there were some problems with the valves on the air chambers but that has long since been corrected.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The other two models are made by Outcast and are also popular with quite a few tooners. They seem to hold up well...much better than the Creek Company abominations. There are quite a few guys who have had similar frame and bladder problems as expressed by the TyeDyeTwins.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If you can find someone who owns one of them, try to get a ride before you buy. There are differences in overall layout and functionality. We all have our own body sizes and types...and our own preferences for accessibility.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If you look hard you can probably find a gently used craft in one of those models. Make a test drive a condition of buying it. You will save money by buying used and usually without sacrificing a lot of security. If you can get one from a previous owner who took good care of it you will still have a lot of water miles left on it. Then, later, when your finances improve and you know enough to make a good decision on an upgrade you can likely recover most of what you spent on the used one when you sell it yourself.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It's not a sin to be poor...especially when you are struggling to get through school. Just don't let that force you into making a decision based solely on price. In the world of float tubes and pontoons it is definitely true that you get what you pay for. And it is better to wait a bit...and spend a little more than you wanted to...than not quite enough.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

The Colorado has a heck of a list of features. What "I" don't care for is the fact there are sooooo many pieces and the weight is insane. Plus a "STEEL" frame, which can mean rust. It also does not say what the bladders are, but I am sure they are Vinyl

Colorado Pontoon Boat
Huge storage capacity, the Colorado Pontoon Boat includes 20 pockets and two insulated drink holders
Weatherproof motor mount
Wire rear storage and battery platform
Rod holder can be mounted in six different positions
Integrated anchor system with fillable mesh bag, cord and pulley
Detachable foam fly patch
Three oar-lock positions and built-in oar rests
Seat mount and footrests adjust to any leg length
Padded plastic seat
Rides high for improved visibilty
Unique dual-side stripping apron with fish ruler allows entry and exit without unclipping
Combination fill/quick deflation valves
Dual compartment pontoon safety bladders
Tow rings
Non-slip footrests
Brass oar lock
Heavy-duty pontoons with abrasion-resistant PVC bottoms and tough nylon tops
Powder-coated steel tube frame
7' two-piece aluminum oars
Cold- and heat-resistant bladders
9' pontoons
400 lb. capacity
River rating - Class 1
Includes free one year Trout Unlimited membership
Assembled weight 71.5 lbs.



9' Sportsman's Outcast
Motor Mount Included
2 - 7' two piece oars
Anchor System Included
2-Summit Valve Type
Weighs 65 lbs
375 lb Load Capacity
5 Year Manufacturer Warranty
It doesn't say, but I assume with the weight the frame is Aluminum.


Outcast Fish Cat Panther
BOAT SPECS
Inflated Size: 60" x 9'
Tube Diameter: 10"
Fabric: 500 PVC/1000 PVC
Material Weight: 30/32 oz/sq. yd.
AireCell Material: Vinyl
Seam Construction: Welded
Warranty: 5
Valve Type: 4-Summit
Weight: 75 lbs
Load Capacity: 400 lbs.
Frame: 6-piece aluminum
Anchor System: Included
Motor Mount: Included
Oar Type: 7' 4-piece

They will all three do the job. "MY" take on it is of course as I mention in the first paragraph, what are they made out of. Check welds on the frame as well.
I have seen a lot of Colorados on the waters, but I have also seen a lot of leaks in them and even a frame breaking at the weld. Again, maybe that is a small percentage for the amount sold, but the fact more than one has had this problem concerns me.

The 9' Sportsman model of Outcast seems to be well made and I see a few of them. Some attention to detail, like the outer material has been addressed. Aluminum frame, big bonus, vinyl bladder, not so much, but again the outer cover takes the beating (like a hot dog)

The Panther, A little side note, Dave Scadden "WAS" head designer for Outcast, and since they have reflected his ideas. I had a Scadden Cardiac Canyon that had pontoon diameter of 12". Nice boat, but in waves, you do get wet. I cannot imagine 10" diameter!
Lower profile means less wind resistance....I use to think that as well, but ANYTHING will be effected by the wind, and in my opinion, two separate pontoon boats are effected way more than a U shape. They will want to turn sideways in the wind and the two pontoons will flex in different positions.

All three of these pontoons are Asian made, which is or should be reflected in the price. If you only use it once in awhile these could all serve you well, but if any of these were stored for five years, I would be a little nervous...LOL

The saying, you get what you pay for, is definitely true in Pontoons, however you don't need to break the bank. There are great deals on Craigs List or KSL.

As far as Sportsmans, I would seriously save a few more cents and look at this one:

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sport.../cat101249

They have been around a very long time, made up in Boise. My first Pontoon was an Alpine...still going strong and never a leak!

Sorry so long....FG
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[jer_fishes]

Thanks so much FG, TD, and Twins

Question about the Panther though. The "quad hull" design with 2 smaller pontoons on either side...is this an advantage or divantage?? Would the wind catch it easier and does it offer any more stability than a normal pontoon. Also I was worried it was too low to the water like you said FG.

The Southfork looks like an awesome toon, but can it have a motor mounted on it?? I noticed it was 8' and looked like I'd have to make a motor mount? Lemme know what ya think and THANKS []
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[flygoddess]

The two pontoons side by side will create a bigger foot print which means more drag, but a nice feature with pontoons that small. Can't imagine it with out two. I have heard some say their feet are always in the water even on the foot pegs due to it's small size.

As far as the S.F. and a motor. Sadly you would have to make a motor mount and deck.
That can be as difficult or as simple as you want it. As I said I had an ALPINE, but mine was the older and 6' long. I put a deck and motor on it. Here it is with my sister in-law still using it:

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[albinotrout]

Pobttons as you can see differ a lot in design and make. I purchased a we'd Leigh toon built in 1997. I had to do a little modifications such as build my own motor mount and accessories but it works great. Be sure to do Yuri foot work and get what you want. Bucks bags makes a great product as well.
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[flygoddess]

The South Fork is suppose to have a large rear deck however no picture to see of it.
Here is the link to BUCK's motor mount..looks simple enough:

http://www.bucksbags.com/cm_item.asp?id=175

After owning several NFO's, rear deck and motor mounts really can be easy.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I had an Outcast Cougar...quad chambers. If you are into low profile and multiple air chambers, that is good. But if you want to maximize your propulsion factor you will do better by gliding on top of the water with two pontoons rather than 4 that sit deeper in the water.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As with most things we buy, it is possible to get enchanted by features that are not nearly as functional as they are foo foo. Whenever somebody says "It has this..." learn to ask "so what? What does that mean to me?"[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Ideally you will have a combination of reasonable weight, strong construction, good floatation and tracking and efficient fishing. Simple. Right?[/#0000ff]
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[jer_fishes]

First off...I try to get out on the water at least once a week. Preferably more, but life happens[] That being said let's talk about wear and tear and how quickly these things break down.

Frames:
I understand that steel will rust the quickest. What about the stainless steel? I assume it doesn't rust the same, but it is still heavier than the aluminum? Which is better stainless steel or aluminum? With the amount I go fishing should I worry about rust or will it be minimal?

Bladders:
I've read a couple posts talking about how polyurethane is better than vinyl. If someone could explain why I'd appreciate it. With the amount I fish, how soon would the vinyl wear out?

Oars:
Some models come with 6' and some with 7'. I would assume the advantage to be with the 7'.

Valves:
I had a creek company tube with some crappy valves. I've used an Outcast tube and the valves seemed fine. I guess my question is which company's valves hold up and don't leak? I've read that the colorado has had problems in this area, but they've fixed em TD?

Seams:
Someone please explain to me what welded seam construction and sewn seam construction mean[]


Finally, say I get something like the Southfork. Would putting the motor on it make the balance all out of wack? Would it be smoother to put on a 9' or can an 8' handle it?

Thanks for all your input[] I just might wait on buying and end up saving more $$$ while the water freezes up.
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[flygoddess]

[quote jer_fishes]First off...I try to get out on the water at least once a week. Preferably more, but life happens[] That being said let's talk about wear and tear and how quickly these things break down.

Frames:
I understand that steel will rust the quickest. What about the stainless steel? I assume it doesn't rust the same, but it is still heavier than the aluminum? Which is better stainless steel or aluminum? With the amount I go fishing should I worry about rust or will it be minimal?

Rust can happen by using once. I can only answer my choice and that is hands down Aluminum. Much lighter and just as dependable as stainless. The more you have to move it, the more you will appreciate that.

Bladders:
I've read a couple posts talking about how polyurethane is better than vinyl. If someone could explain why I'd appreciate it. With the amount I fish, how soon would the vinyl wear out?

Urethane will last longer and is much lighter, plus less effected by temperature and altitude. Vinyl can get crack after time. Advisable to roll vinyl and not fold.
Vinyl could last you for many years if handled right.

Oars:
Some models come with 6' and some with 7'. I would assume the advantage to be with the 7'.

The longer the oar the better, but it depends on the boat. A narrower boat could need shorter oars/

Valves:
I had a creek company tube with some crappy valves. I've used an Outcast tube and the valves seemed fine. I guess my question is which company's valves hold up and don't leak? I've read that the colorado has had problems in this area, but they've fixed em TD?

Halkey and Boston are probably the most used and well known, there is also Summit. I would pick Halkey Roberts.

Seams:
Someone please explain to me what welded seam construction and sewn seam construction mean[]

That is pretty much self explanatory. I would rather a welded seam as thread can break or wear out.


Finally, say I get something like the Southfork. Would putting the motor on it make the balance all out of wack? Would it be smoother to put on a 9' or can an 8' handle it?

Again, I had a #27 (the BIG battery) on my 6' Alpine and it was just fine. You just need to slide the frame forward on the toons.
I don't think the ride would be that noticeable between an 8' or a 9'

Thanks for all your input[] I just might wait on buying and end up saving more $$$ while the water freezes up.[/quote]


Questions are good, and I hope they help. I can say, I have had several pontoons, but I only made a mistake once, buying what I thought I wanted. My other pontoons I had for over five years. The Alpine I had for 7 years, sold it to my Sister in-Law who still has it and still uses it. My Cardiac I had for 10 Years and it is still going.
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[idahoron]

I have a Sportsmans 9 AKA FC9. I can't tell you anything about the others, but I do know a thing or two about mine. I have used my boat for trolling on lakes for walleys, crappie, and perch. I have fished reservoirs and lakes, and white water rivers for Catfish. And I have even caught a 6 foot strugeon in my Sportsmans 9.
I like this boat. I am sure there are some that are lighter. I am sure that there are some that would work as well for me. Here was my deal. I looked around and got this boat lightly used for 200.00 cash. I added oar rights which is a must in my opinion for any boat. I also put on a 40 pound thrust minkota trolling motor. I use a series 27 deep cell battery. I also carry a cooler and other things on the back rack. Here is what my boat looks like loaded.



Like I said I have used mine floating rives and I used it while dealing with dangerous wind and waves. I was worried a few times at first. As I gained knowledge and gained experience I now have full confidence in the Sportsmans 9.
Like I said I am sure that other boats are equally as good. My 200 dollar boat (gets er done).

My 32 mile float trip with it was a test on its own. For comfort and ruggedness. Going over rocks and through big waves. I was never nervous about hitting a big wave or hole. But I was not on true "white water" it is called class II splashers.




I don't think I have truly tested the limits of the boat at all. When I caught the sturgeon it was not much of a test of the boat. In fact I have seen videos of guys catching sturgeon in boats. To be honest I felt that the pontoon was an advantage to me and I felt like I was totally in charge even though he was dragging me around at will. Never did it feel scary.




On the Creek Company boats. I also have the Sport XL and the old Banana boat Sport. I think both of them are ok at best. My son loves his sport.





Me not so much.



AS you can see Mine looks back heavy. I struggled to get it to ride level with a load. I don't know how a guy would be able to put a motor on. If you see how far my tips are in the water just think what it would be like with 2 foot waves and going into those waves with a motor. You could not pay me enough to have a motor on one in bad weather.
With that said they are not unusable. I got mine to ride level with a load but it has precious little hull in the water to keep it tracking straight. Here is a picture of it loaded and level.





Like I said my son loves his and he does get along with it well. He also made the 32 mile float trip with NO problems at all.
My info to you is if you find a lightly used Sportsmans 9 and can get it for 200 to 300 I would do it in a heart beat. PVC covers are a must. and a sturdy frame is also a must. I love mine. Ron
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]You are right to be concerned about the potential for premature wear and/or failure. But I think I can safely assure you that with the craft you are looking at there is really not much to fear. Kinda like your mom telling you not to run with scissors or you will put your eye out. Yeah, it can happen, but not likely.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Frames: Don't sweat the steel frame. Rust? Yeah, it can happen, but not likely on a well made powder coated frame. At least for fresh water use. Upgrading to aluminum or stainless will only raise the price with no great difference at the level of use you foresee. If you get a ding on your frame or drill a hole in it you simply need to cover it with some kind of sealer or rustproofing and go fishing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]BLADDERS: There is far too much hype on this subject. Most of it from those who sell one or the other and try to knock the competition to sell their own product. It is far more important to have a good thick wall on the bladder than whether or not it is urethane or PVC/vinyl. Both will get holes if you puncture them. And both will sustain damage if you treat them wrong...like overinflation. I have been doing this a long time and I do not know of anybody who has drowned from having one kind or the other. But I know of "incidents" involving both that were the fault of the angler and not the bladder. Check your basic chemistry. Most folks who tout one or the other cannot tell you the molecular difference between the materials or the major difference in properties under different conditions of heat, cold or stress. A good vinyl bladder should theoretically last as long as a urethane one. Just take good care of it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Oars: Again, a personal thing...based upon the users' size, strength, rowing ability and style of rowing and fishing. Not a one size fits all. Basic physics tells us that the longer the lever the more force you can exert at the end of it...the oar blade. But oars can also be too long and get in the way more when not in use. Takes a balance. More importantly is how you have them set up to fit your size and grip. Usually takes some adjustment before you can just grab and row without conscious thought. That being said, there are aftermarket upgrades for most toons that are lighter, stronger and have more efficient blades.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]VALVES: The best valves are the Halkey Roberts and summit valves...the ones that require a fitting to attach to your pump to activate the valve. Those are standard on most higher end Outcast craft and on Dave Scadden's designs. The valves on Creek Company...including the ODC 420 tubes...are notorious for being difficult to properly seat. Ditto for the Outcast Fish Cat tubes. I have not personally inspected the valves on the Colorado for at least a couple of years. But the most recent reports from those who use them is that they seem to be working okay.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]SEAMS: Plain sewn seam construction is probably the weakest and with the greatest potential for stress and wear. Welded seams are usually a combo of sewn and welded. Much stronger but not indestructible. You can wear them out by dragging on hard surfaces. Some models incorporate welded on "skid pads" over the bottom seams. Again, not indestructible but holds up better under abuse.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]MOTOR: As a general rule you are better to buy a craft that already has a built in platform and motor mount...with plenty of adjustability to move your center of gravity forward or backward. If you buy a shorter and lighter craft...not intended for taking a heavy motor and battery...you will likely get into some balance and performance issues. Even if a toon is rated for at least 500 pounds that does not mean you can add an extra hundred pounds at the rear without compromising the ride. Toons work best when everything is properly balanced and you can skim across the water on the level. If your stern is pulled down in the water and your nose rides high you will not have as much fun.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

[angelic]Well, we can agree on the Valves and the seams...LOL
As far as rust, wanna check out a pair of my old foot pegs. Scratch the coating, it will most definitely rust. As you said, I have also been using Framed models for a few years [] But we won't go there...LOL

Vinyl is more than likely Asian made and it does not have the regulations that the Urethane does, so I respectfully disagree on it being just hype. It is like MONO and Fluorocarbon. Yes you can explode both, but more than likely it will be the seam.


The Outer cover is a big feature to pay close attention to.

As I said in earlier post, vinyl could be just fine, I KNOW Urethane would be. I have owned both, and had one blow out...guess which.

Oars, I have used the 6'er on my 9'er and they were fine, the 7'er customs are even better. and on my 10'6" boat I use 7'6" oars. Longer oars will make it easier, just keep it real and don't exceed the length of the boat. LOL

I am just giving MY opinion on this because I have been using pontoons for a quarter of a century or better, and have been lucky enough to try several different ones. So, take my post for what it is worth.
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[jer_fishes]

Thanks all! You've given a LOT to think about. I'm leaning more towards the Sportsman's 9, or the Southfork which kinda looks intriguing. Are there any other models you guys would suggest to take a look at? Even if they require me to save a couple more pennies[] As always your input is welcomed and appreciated
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[idahoron]

If I had unlimited funds I would own a outlaw X5. I am keeping my eyes open for a deal of the century. Ron
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[kochanut]

get a scadden. that my adive sorry lol
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[kochanut]

here you go, everything you need plus the best quality out there

[url "http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=17786803&cat=233&lpid=4&search"]http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=17786803&cat=233&lpid=4&search[/url]=
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[pontoonman]

Jer, all good advice has been given from some very knowledgeable individuals. I generally agree with everything that has been posted, and it is very good info. Some contradictory answers because of the physical difference in the individuals, and the type of fishing they do.

I've been at it for awhile also, and tend to approach from the other end, asking questions about the user first.

What kind of water and species will you be fishing? There are trade offs depending on whether you will be using in shallow, slow moving creeks on one end or huge open water on the other. A compromise, if you want it to do it all, is in order.


How often will you realistically use your boat? You indicated once a week which is possible in warm Texas, but can you really do that in the colder northwest states? Most people wind up using a boat way LESS than they think, even when they have a passion and are retired. Big motorboats are the least used and biggest waste, average of about 4 holidays a year is what I read.

What kind of physical fitness and how strong are you? Necessary to know for propulsion and toon size considerations.

How tall are you and how heavy? There is quite a difference between the advice to be given a 98# 5' woman vs. a 6'6", 300# man.

As regards price when new, I go with the consumer reports philosophy: Paying less usually get you less, but paying more may also get you less because of hype factors. Look for the best bang for the buck, unless you have special needs and have to pay more.

Pontoons will almost always be faster than tubes, but your upper back will get wetter than with a "V" tube because of the spray caused by the twin hulls as they move through the water or against the wind into waves. That has been my experience, anyway. Quad tube pontoons are slower and heavier and sit lower as has been pointed out, but that wouldn't matter much with troll motor power. Quads are the most stable making them usable when there are many other boat wakes around or in waves. My Oncilla quad seating is high and dry since I sit above the spray created by pontoon tips, but your storage pockets will get wet because of the lower stance diameter tubes.

Hope this helps.

Pon


[quote jer_fishes]First off...I try to get out on the water at least once a week. Preferably more, but life happens[] That being said let's talk about wear and tear and how quickly these things break down.

Frames:
I understand that steel will rust the quickest. What about the stainless steel? I assume it doesn't rust the same, but it is still heavier than the aluminum? Which is better stainless steel or aluminum? With the amount I go fishing should I worry about rust or will it be minimal?

Bladders:
I've read a couple posts talking about how polyurethane is better than vinyl. If someone could explain why I'd appreciate it. With the amount I fish, how soon would the vinyl wear out?

Oars:
Some models come with 6' and some with 7'. I would assume the advantage to be with the 7'.

Valves:
I had a creek company tube with some crappy valves. I've used an Outcast tube and the valves seemed fine. I guess my question is which company's valves hold up and don't leak? I've read that the colorado has had problems in this area, but they've fixed em TD?

Seams:
Someone please explain to me what welded seam construction and sewn seam construction mean[]


Finally, say I get something like the Southfork. Would putting the motor on it make the balance all out of wack? Would it be smoother to put on a 9' or can an 8' handle it?

Thanks for all your input[] I just might wait on buying and end up saving more $$$ while the water freezes up.[/quote]
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[flygoddess]

DING, DING, Ding...you nailed it so on the head there Koch.

Pontoon, I respectfully disagree that size of person OR the type of fishing is a factor when choosing a pontoon. I think that is miss leading the new comer or at least, making it harder than it need to be. I was not aware there was pontoons for big or small, or that there is a pontoon for Bass, or Trout, or whatever.

As far as using the boat, you CAN use it up to ice on and right at ice off...some of the best fishing at that time.

How do you figure your back gets wetter with a pontoon that a V? If the water is that rough, slapping of the V will cause water to hit you. I will say I have got splashed on, but generally the pontoon rolls with the waves, my U toon can slap the water. I guess I am not seeing what you are saying.

jer_fishes, weather permitting, a bunch of us are heading to Strawberry for the 5th of Oct. We have just about every style of pontoon there if you wanna join us.
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