Creek Company's new boat.

[idahoron]

I got an email that they had a new boat. Here it is. Ron

http://creekcompany.com/product.php?prod...featured=Y
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[smallmouth89]

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[cpierce]

Man that looks familiar! http://northforkoutdoors.com/home.html

Wonder if there is any patient infringement there???
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[albinotrout]

Looks a little purple.
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[flygoddess]

[quote cpierce]Man that looks familiar! http://northforkoutdoors.com/home.html

Wonder if there is any patient infringement there???[/quote]

Could be, when I sent this to Dave three weeks ago, they are not happy, but what the heck, look at theses:

http://www.outcastboats.com/outcast/prod...aspx?id=43


Then look at this from 2000

http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/1rev...alade.html

Then people wonder why he won't say WHERE his boats are made.
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[idahoron]

it was my understanding that outcast built the Escalade for Dave. When Outcast brought out the first pictures of the OSG Commander on Facebook I asked them about the Escalade and the uncanny resemblance. Outcast said
"The Escalade paddled like a kayak and has a different hull design."

This Creek Company boat is also a very close resemblance to Dave's boat.

Ron
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[pontoonman]

Patents mostly keep the honest businesses honest. The Creek Co boat seems to be different shell material, different seat, different number of inflation chambers/valves, etc. Knockoffs with even slight variations are hard to stop. Only someone with deep pockets can prosecute and it doesn't help much if the offending party also has deep pockets or is unreachable in China. Better to write off as a cost of doing business, rather than feed the lawyers. Seems like your only chance with a new idea is to keep several steps ahead of the pirates, which I'm sure Dave has in his business plan...

Pon
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[flygoddess]

Pontoon, the design really is more similar to one of Daves earlier boats, which we did own like the Escalade. The boat was called the Navigator II. Dave has brilliant ideas and is going to get copyed. Might have to get use to design Albino. Looks like the wave on the future.
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[mojorizing]

[quote idahoron]

This Creek Company boat is also a very close resemblance to Dave's boat.

Ron[/quote]
How about a total rip off of the Renegade, down to the side bags.
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[flygoddess]

[quote idahoron]it was my understanding that outcast built the Escalade for Dave. When Outcast brought out the first pictures of the OSG Commander on Facebook I asked them about the Escalade and the uncanny resemblance. Outcast said
"The Escalade paddled like a kayak and has a different hull design."

This Creek Company boat is also a very close resemblance to Dave's boat.

Ron[/quote]


I don't know on that. He is out of town at shows. But I was under the understanding Dave designed this using Aire not Outcast.
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[idahoron]

Well, Aire = outcast the way I understand it they are the same company.

I asked outcast in the Facebook thread if Aire/outcast made the boats. In that thread all they said was they did not paddle the same and the hull was different.

I wonder if they had some kind of agreement of some sort to not build it for so many years or something. Maybe Dave had a build agreement with Creek co?

This is all very interesting. Ron
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[flygoddess]

Aire owns Outcast. When Dave left employment from Outcast for whatever reason, he built his own boats. This was many years ago with Anglers Inn. Dave was a designer for Outcast and I am sure he had something to do with the Fat Cat design, because he had his own version under his name. He used "Aire" bladders also. So, basically, Aire was building bladders for both Outcast and Scadden, but they were two very different companies.
Dave left Aire for his own reason and one being he wanted to keep his boats USA made, which they are to this day (note: I say his boats are USA made, accessories may be China such as bags, seat, oars) The Dual Bladder Pac boat from Outcast Dave holds the patent on it. Dave has a patent on many of his product because he has such a strong idea and as you can see, people steal his ideas.
I imagine a slight change here and there they can get away with and maybe he has an agreement with outcast, but I sent this CC boat info to the NFO shop a little over three weeks ago when I came across it by accident. It was not featured in their line-up yet. The gentleman I talked to at NFO was very upset and said he would let Dave know. Dave is in Seattle right now so no idea what will happen. Maybe nothing.
Mixed feelings on this because it is such a terrific design and as many have stated they would love one but finances prevent. This would be their chance.
But, in the same breath, if this boat proves to be a let down, I hope people realize it is not the same.
Many people prefer the inflatable seat area. I can tell you, the Navigator II I had has this same inflatable seat (same as the H3) The H3 didn't bother me but the Navigator did a little. After now using the new model, the difference is day and night.
It also appears you are sitting lower in these CC boats. The head on picture shows the seat in the water. Not a big deal I guess but I don't need to wear waders on my NFO and there is no seat drag.
Seat drag could present a problem because you are sitting a little higher and not as much leg in the water.

I am not trying to put down this product, as I said, it does open several doors to family restricted budgets. Just a few hands on experiences I have had and notice.

The Navigator had a ton of room in the back and a zipper to mount a motor, that was way cool feature:

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[albinotrout]

[quote flygoddess]. Might have to get use to design Albino. Looks like the wave on the future.[/quote]

Yeah I see what is coming, but I think there will still be a market for the older design styles.
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[flygoddess]

You could be right, but everyone I know that tries these U shape specially the frameless are switching. They are more stable than two pontoons could ever be, even my X5. By stable, you can stand on even the 6' Escape.
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[pontoonman]

Yes, TD switched back to the old style, for example. Old style can be made into a true lightweight/low cost pack in boat, which would be hard to do with this new style.

I would be interested in a true frameless pontoon where all parts of the seat clear the water by at least 4" even for large loads or heavy passengers. That would mean a much faster boat with greater range without hangup in the middle. The only thing I have seen that comes close is the NRS gigbob, but it is way too heavy and complicated. It does use drop stitch technology which allows much higher rigidity, due to much higher inflation pressure. http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=16400
My guess is that drop stitch would be involved in the next toon/tube advance, FWIW.

Pon

[quote albinotrout][quote flygoddess]. Might have to get use to design Albino. Looks like the wave on the future.[/quote]

Yeah I see what is coming, but I think there will still be a market for the older design styles.[/quote]
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[flygoddess]

TD might like this one as you are sitting lower with more leg/fin in the water. I think that was his only complaint about the Renegade but I could be wrong.

Here is a picture of my Navigator, note how low I was sitting. Pretty much like a SFC, I had to wear at least waist waders




Here is the CC and the X5 framed models



And here is the Renegade



The Assault is the same size as the Renegade , but with the extra toon in the front it floats higher and more weight, but as you can see, there is plenty of clearance under the inflated seat area.
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[albinotrout]

I am not totally against new deagns and crafts. For me to look at purchasing a craft similar to this then I would prefer seeing it up close and having a chance to try it out. Otherwise I have a hard time seeing myself putting a lot of cash onto something that may not work for the type of fishing I do.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I loved the Renny...except for two issues...size and propulsion. It was just enough bigger than I was used to that I had to use more "TD power" over the course of a full day to move around. The other issue was that the trolling motor would not pull the Renny backward in a straight line. It was a bugger to steer...even with fin steering. I couldn't make a run at any speed without suddenly losing control and going into a circle.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I would be a happy boy if Dave could make an Escape with a big enough rear compartment to hold a decent sized battery. Wierd engineering there.[/#0000ff]
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[flygoddess]

Any time my friend[cool]
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[flygoddess]

I haven't noticed the straight line problem, but I agree on the Escape. Kind of a hybrid between the H3 and the Escape. An inflatable seat/ floor, but all that storage behind the seat. I tell you, I know TD didn't like it but I came across four of them (my hubby and Mine plus two I picked up from Larry) and I wish that I had had the foresight to hang on to ONE of them. That was the ultimate tube to me.
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