need some help please.

[southernbass]

my son turns 8 this yr and i am planning on getting him his own flyrod. he has never before flyfished but think its is time for him to learn. i am thinking of a 5wt but not sure if i should get him a 8' 8.5' or a 9'. now my question would be what is a good size for him to learn on? any info is always helping. thanks
















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[joshomaru]

Personally, I don't think the lengths you posted are going to have a big impact on him learning to cast. The most important things as far as rod goes is going to be balance and "comfort."
If he can learn timing, good starts and stops, and how to lay his line down (as opposed to slapping it down), he will be able to adjust to any of those rod lengths.
I think a lot of first timers do better with a slightly faster rod. Seems like a faster rod is a little more forgiving for newbies, until they learn to "feel" their timing.
I think a 5 weight is great to learn on! Good luck!
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[riverdog]

I would think mostly about where you will take him fishing most of the time. If that's mainly small streams probable a 7 ft ( or even 6 ft), larger rivers in Utah about 8ft, still water or big rivers in the region 9 ft. If you get a 9 ft rod and try to fish places he can wade that won't likely have all that much casting room, it is going to be real discouraging to a beginner. I'm not sure why everybody likes a 5 wt. That is the absolute largest wt I use in Utah. Come to think of it I never got above a 4 wt all of last year in Utah. A 2 -4 wt will be lighter and more importantly more fun for him. Now if your planning on him fishing the Green in Wyoming, the Snake River and other big water by all means go with the 5 wt. Just my 2 cents worth as I realize others don't look at it the same way.
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[flygoddess]

I think an 8' to 9' 5 wt as well because, not only creeks, rivers but stillwater. Bigger flies and wind. Much easier to roll cast which is one cast one really needs to learn to be able to fly fish anywhere.

As for Creeks, I take an 8'er up Millcreek and can high stick on narrow spots.
Plus this is a learning as well.

As for flex, I differ there as well. Medium Fast action as this will teach them to feel the load much more than a fast action. Again this is a learning...first time, so learn correctly to not rush it.

Balance is the most important thing to me as well. A 7' rod can feel like a club if not balanced. I am not sayin you need to go the lightest rod and the lightest reel, although this is ultimate, I am saying a rod that is balanced with the reel and line and is not tip heavy or butt heavy.

This is so cool you are getting you son into this. I think like Karate it also teaches respect and discipline.
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[tkidder]

Personally, I'd worry less about length and weight. Just buy him a rod that you're comfortable with him taking out in the yard, even when you're not around, to practice with. My son's rod is a 9' 5wt 'Renegade' rod from walmart. I've already repaired it once, but it's great because I can leave it strung up in the garage for him without worrying. Just my 2 cents.
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[mandm1516]

I'm going to go out on a tangent here: consider a tenkara rod, especially if you think you'll spend most your time with him on creeks and rivers. They're inexpensive (the better ones from Tenkara USA are about $135, the less expensive ones from Fountainhead are as low as $50--I hae one of each and think both are fine). Add a FlyGoddess leader or even a 12' piece of fluorocarbon line and you're fishing.

My 10 and 8 year old daughters both caught fish on Tenkara rods last summer. They were making nice rhythmic casts and landing size 16 renegades where they wanted them on a Uinta Mountain stream within about 5 minutes.

It's very simple and keeps the focus more on where you're placing your fly and what it's doing in the water than on line management, etc.

Downside is if you're stillwater fishing, it has it's limitations due to the length of line. It'll still work okay on a lot of Uinta mountain lakes where the fish rise near shore.

Mike
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[Tarponjim]

I bought an outfit for my best friend's 8-yr-old last year. His dad and I decided on a 8 1/2 foot 4-weight, but we overlined it with a 5-wt line. He's casting it beautifully! The 5-wt line greatly helped him aquire the feel of the rod loading and unloading. Heck, I even have a couple rods I sometimes fish with a line one grade heavier. I had the opportunity to get him the least-expensive Orvis rod/reel/line with the 25-year guarantee at a great price. So, if he breaks it, he can get it replaced fairly inexpensively. If he never breaks it, he'll have a very practical fly rod for a very long time. I think its important for beginners to have good equipment so as not to lose interest because of hard-to-work-with gear.
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[flygoddess]

I agree Jim. I taught a class once with ages of 6 to 16. The younger ones where fantastic. Listen to every thing I said and I literally had to tell them to stop and take a break.
The older they got a little more challenging. Out of say 5 teens, I got actual progress out of three, the other two quickly lost interest.

But I have experimented with CHEAP gear, Inexpensive Gear and Top of the line. Trust me, a newbie can tell the difference. Now a days it is possible to get a great feeling inexpensive rod.
Don't forget the line. Cheap line will be stiff and have terrible memory, plus a taper not right for the rod.
I like SA's GPX line as it is 1/2 size heavier and shoots wonderful. And with only being 1/2 size larger it works well on full flex rods. Super easy to roll cast.

Reason I keep mentioning roll casting is I think that is the cast I use 90% of the time. It is the only choice to keep from getting a big old mess if you are fishing Indicators, or big dries. Also multi flies. Not to mention obsticals behind you specailly at public ponds.

It is an easy cast to learn but you do need water to practice whish is a bonus.

I had a group of newbie woman one year. They immediately started the over head cast, breaking their wrists, loosing flies in the tree and weeds behind them, snapping the line. So I showed each of them the roll cast and the flip upstream cast. No line flying over their head and they caught fish basically cause their line was now in the water more where it needs to be.

Check this out:

http://midcurrent.com/videos/joan-wulff-the-roll-cast/
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[riverdog]

Now FG that roll cast will always be fine for a big open stillwater in front of you. But if in front of you was a small creek that kids can wade it doesn't always work. Imagine small pools and rocky rapids in front of you and a nice hole further up. A short rod will allow you to cast traditionally more of the time. Besides I look at all the space to her side and would throw out a simple snake cast http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydAa-qe9wv8 on a small creek if the water in front of me dictated it.
I can see your point about using the roll cast if your using bobbers (indicators[laugh]) and multiple flies. However my experience is it's a a lot more enjoyable for a newbie kid to keep it simple. Learning to fly fish without an indicator is simpler than using one on a stream. Plus they won't be so wary about dropping that crutch when it's truly just another hassle and not improving the fishing. Same with multiple flies. Save those extras for when they really have the basics of fly fishing down. If one of your goals is to make it an active sport for the kids and have then wade the rod size and what you teach should probable be different to start than if you plan on fishing still water with them. Standing in one spot fishing uses about as much energy as playing a video game. Covering ground wading will also get the kids into many more fish and more likely to keep their interest. I still remember the second time out with my son fly fishing when he was 6. The first time out lasted 20 minutes and neither of us caught or saw a fish in the fall before. With the basics of casting down he waded a few hundred yards up a small stream in Idaho and landed a dozen fish in 45 minutes. The only help was I corrected his casting technique a few times.
I'd go super cheap like kidder suggested or if spending a bit more get a good warranty like Jim suggested. Orvis has some of it's newer Clearwater 2 rods on sale. $119 with a 25 year warranty. I just got one in a 9 wt and they're good enough that you'll want to use it too[], just remember to let your child have first dibs. If I was looking for somethink I'd consider this rod http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?...t_id=12022
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[flygoddess]

We do differ that is for sure. I along with many others do not see indicators as a crutch, but more an aid, like synthetics, beads, FOAM.
Although I do not post much on rivers note I don't post much on stillwater as well, remember I am a guide and we get newbies all the time.
Going to end this on my half right here as I do respect you and your fishing but just saying there is more than one way to catch a fish and I make my income from teaching people through a company that does the same thing so as not to confuse new comers.
I do roll cast streams...lift, flip up stream. I do use indies on stillwater, but not much on moving water either.
Isn't fishing a smaller rod for trees and bushes a crutch? or maybe an aid.
A newbie I think it is very important they see the take. A dry not so hard to see, but that nymph. Whether it be an indicator or a big dry fly, the result is the same and I don't see big foam flies as a crutch.
I fish Millcreek all the time....a 7'9" and a 8'6" are rods of choice.
You CAN fish small streams and Creeks with a 9' rod many do it, but bigger rivers and stillwater with a 7'er is a different story. Why limit yourself?
Once again I am done here.
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[riverdog]

Hey FG, it wasn't a personal attack at all. Sorry if I offended you. The remarks were meant to be lighthearted joking. I respect what you have to offer even if I'm not much of a purist and have a very different style than you. It was to point out they're are different ways to catch fish. Think what situation might be right for southern bass with his son. He never mentioned where he sees himself taking his son primarily to fish. I do think this should play a big role in his selection. The standard 9ft 5 wt reply is far from the only answer to everyones first rod. As we both know you can catch fish throughout the whole state with a single rod. But that single rod is far from ideal for all waters. This is even more true for a beginner than the experienced.
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[flygoddess]

Absolutely....okay, now I am done...[laugh][laugh][laugh][laugh]
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[flygoddess]

http://midcurrent.com/experts/whats-the-...trout-rod/
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[riverdog]

That's a good article about benefits of different sized rods. It however only indirectly addresses the issue about children. The rod is a lever and at increasing lengths feels heavier and is less accurate is pointed out. This will come into play sooner with a shorter arm casting arod. So where you make the compromise with weight, distance, coordination and accuracy is not necessarily the same as the typical adult. That's why rods marketed for kids tend to be shorter than those for adults.
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[flygoddess]

http://olivethewoollybugger.com/2010/08/...-for-kids/
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[sinergy]

[quote riverdog Learning to fly fish without an indicator is simpler than using one on a stream. Plus they won't be so wary about dropping that crutch when it's truly just another hassle and not improving the fishing. [url "http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=28L8&dir_id=1137&group_id=1157&cat_id=12021&subcat_id=12022[/quote]"]/quote][/url]

I got to disagree with that I'm no guide but have taught a few kids & adults over the years and I find just the opposite people can more easily see the strike indicator maybe its the lack of knowing what a bite feels like but I when they see the strike indicator go under they have a better idea of when to set the hook.

Everyone entitled to there opinion but I got to say those thinggamabobbers freaking rock
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