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[quote utahgolf]Well no one is catching 20 pike now. Maybe last spring or the year before but completely an arbitrary number now.[/quote]
Then obviously no one is keeping 20 either.
is this a bad thing? No!! Why? Because we already know that pike have the ability to reproduce in high numbers at Yuba. So, keep a very liberal harvest rate in order to attempt to keep population numbers low, which means FAST growth rates which = BIG fish!!
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You are correct, we know pike at Yuba can reach plentiful numbers under absolutely no pressure or harvest. Its only been in the last year limits on pike at Yuba have been exercised at all. So now we will see just how well their recruitment numbers actually do under a normal set of limits actually being exercised.
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Don't tell me, I quite fishing that water in the 70's when the bigger fish was fished out..
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IF you quit in the 70s, you quit too soon. We have pictures of huge rainbows that were caught as late as 1979...maybe you just thought they were "caught" out!
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One of these years stripers will get into lees ferry.
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was not a direct reason to not keep big fish big trout and big bass and big everything out there got big for a reason,,,genetics they have survived and they can produce bigger fish over time anybody heard of selective harvest... works good back east maybe we can do the same here
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no clue they don't have
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Anybody else notice the trend that successful anglers very ever rarely whine? And many of them have quit posting on this site altogether because of the BS. The quality of this site has gone way down because it seems fishing has degenerated to a childish game of bickering imbeciles.
The truth is that good anglers adapt. Instead of whining and blaming the DWR, or pointing their fingers at other anglers, they are out there in the field working at their game. Good anglers know how to catch fish, and when things change, they change. They don't go to the same place over and over again for 20 years..expecting the same results. Fishing in the west is volatile, just like the weather.
And I can tell you for a fact that many waters people claim are "overharvested" have some of the biggest fish in the state...
The simple fact is the DWR is not going to hold anglers hands. They are not going to catch fish for you. The size and numbers of fish you catch is a direct derivative of how good of an angler you are, and how good you play the game. High fish populations is a sorry substitue for lack of skill.
If the DWR says certain fisheries are over populated..Who is to argue with them? They are the biologists. Their job is to study fisheries, they do it for a living. Their job is NOT to catch fish for you or hold your hand.
There will always be good fishing, and good anglers know this. As for the rest, keep bickering and worrying about what other anglers are doing..More fish for the rest of us.
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[quote zman2]was not a direct reason to not keep big fish big trout and big bass and big everything out there got big for a reason,,,genetics they have survived and they can produce bigger fish over time anybody heard of selective harvest... works good back east maybe we can do the same here[/quote]
PBH has covered this several times in the past so I will save him the typing this time......
Indeterminate Growth! Genetics for size are not passed down to the offspring.
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[quote harlin]Anybody else notice the trend that successful anglers very ever rarely whine? And many of them have quit posting on this site altogether because of the BS. The quality of this site has gone way down because it seems fishing has degenerated to a childish game of bickering imbeciles.
The truth is that good anglers adapt. Instead of whining and blaming the DWR, or pointing their fingers at other anglers, they are out there in the field working at their game. Good anglers know how to catch fish, and when things change, they change. They don't go to the same place over and over again for 20 years..expecting the same results. Fishing in the west is volatile, just like the weather.
And I can tell you for a fact that many waters people claim are "overharvested" have some of the biggest fish in the state...
The simple fact is the DWR is not going to hold anglers hands. They are not going to catch fish for you. The size and numbers of fish you catch is a direct derivative of how good of an angler you are, and how good you play the game. High fish populations is a sorry substitue for lack of skill.
If the DWR says certain fisheries are over populated..Who is to argue with them? They are the biologists. Their job is to study fisheries, they do it for a living. Their job is NOT to catch fish for you or hold your hand.
There will always be good fishing, and good anglers know this. As for the rest, keep bickering and worrying about what other anglers are doing..More fish for the rest of us.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Damn, Bubba; good post. I like your attitude. [cool][/#800000][/font]
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Bob Hicks, from Utah
I'm 81 years young and going as hard as I can for as long as I can.
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[quote dubob][quote harlin]Anybody else notice the trend that successful anglers very ever rarely whine? And many of them have quit posting on this site altogether because of the BS. The quality of this site has gone way down because it seems fishing has degenerated to a childish game of bickering imbeciles.
The truth is that good anglers adapt. Instead of whining and blaming the DWR, or pointing their fingers at other anglers, they are out there in the field working at their game. Good anglers know how to catch fish, and when things change, they change. They don't go to the same place over and over again for 20 years..expecting the same results. Fishing in the west is volatile, just like the weather.
And I can tell you for a fact that many waters people claim are "overharvested" have some of the biggest fish in the state...
The simple fact is the DWR is not going to hold anglers hands. They are not going to catch fish for you. The size and numbers of fish you catch is a direct derivative of how good of an angler you are, and how good you play the game. High fish populations is a sorry substitue for lack of skill.
If the DWR says certain fisheries are over populated..Who is to argue with them? They are the biologists. Their job is to study fisheries, they do it for a living. Their job is NOT to catch fish for you or hold your hand.
There will always be good fishing, and good anglers know this. As for the rest, keep bickering and worrying about what other anglers are doing..More fish for the rest of us.[/quote][font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Damn, Bubba; good post. I like your attitude. [cool][/#800000][/font][/quote]
I'll add Amen to that.
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These are all evasive species that have been introduced for our pleasure. Even the genetics of the trout they plant are from out of state.
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[quote harlin]Anybody else notice the trend that successful anglers very ever rarely whine? And many of them have quit posting on this site altogether because of the BS. The quality of this site has gone way down because it seems fishing has degenerated to a childish game of bickering imbeciles.
The truth is that good anglers adapt. Instead of whining and blaming the DWR, or pointing their fingers at other anglers, they are out there in the field working at their game. Good anglers know how to catch fish, and when things change, they change. They don't go to the same place over and over again for 20 years..expecting the same results. Fishing in the west is volatile, just like the weather.
And I can tell you for a fact that many waters people claim are "overharvested" have some of the biggest fish in the state...
The simple fact is the DWR is not going to hold anglers hands. They are not going to catch fish for you. The size and numbers of fish you catch is a direct derivative of how good of an angler you are, and how good you play the game. High fish populations is a sorry substitue for lack of skill.
If the DWR says certain fisheries are over populated..Who is to argue with them? They are the biologists. Their job is to study fisheries, they do it for a living. Their job is NOT to catch fish for you or hold your hand.
There will always be good fishing, and good anglers know this. As for the rest, keep bickering and worrying about what other anglers are doing..More fish for the rest of us.[/quote]
harlin for president, he know how to speak the truth!
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So true so true...[fishin]
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[quote TyeDyeTwins ]
Indeterminate Growth! Genetics for size are not passed down to the offspring.[/quote]
Genetics for size ARE passed down. But you are correct with indeterminate (vs. determinate) growth. Fish are NOT mammals. Mammals are "determinate" growers. We know that when an elephant is born that it will grow larger throughout it's lifetime become a giant of an animal. Fish, however, are "indeterminate" growers. They are very "plastic". they do NOT necessarily grow larger throughout their life. They may, infact, grow smaller based off environmental factors. They still have the "big" genetics, but they may not grow big. Or they may. Or they may shrink.
Just look a the pilot peak lahontan's.
so, as tyedye is saying: harvesting the big fish doesn't mean that you'll harvest the "big" genetics out of the population. Those small fish have the same genetics and potential for growing large. Those fish at Lee's Ferry have that same potential to grow large as did those fish in the 70's. The difference? There's too damn many of them!!
Genetics are NOT the limiting factor for potential size in our fish here in Utah. (with maybe one exception)
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PBH many different strains of rainbows have been stocked at Lees Ferry over the years. The ones there today have different genetics than the ones stocked in the 70s.
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"Just look a the pilot peak lahontan's."
[#0000FF]That is a great example. I had the opportunity to visit Pyramid Lake in Nevada last year, right about the tail end of the spawning session for the Lahontan cutts. Spent some time talking with tribal biologists who were managing the egg taking and rearing.
They explained how the original strain Lahontans in Pyramid Lake were essentially wiped out by loss of water from the Truckee River into the Lake. Once they obtained more water they finally found a source of pure strain Lahontans at Pilot Peak, on the other side of the state. These new recruits were only a few inches long...compared to the original fish that grew to be in excess of 40 pounds. With plenty to eat and a few years to grow the small transplants have grown to produce fish in excess of 20 pounds already. That would have never happened in their mountain streams...with limited food and small habitat.
But many anglers still believe in releasing larger fish purely for the "genes". ANN...another nice notion.
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[quote TT600]PBH many different strains of rainbows have been stocked at Lees Ferry over the years. The ones there today have different genetics than the ones stocked in the 70s.[/quote]
That may be....but genetics still are not the limiting factor--with fewer fish and more food, there would still be very big bows around Lee's Ferry!
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Kamloops and then Bellaire strains were stocked later in Lee's Ferry. But they also went to artificial flies and lures only (reduced catch and reduced mortality) along with reduced the limit of fish. And of course the nutrient rich flow of early releases where long gone. So it's a complicated mix of changes. But the guides don't want fewer fish now so you aren't going to get any bigger ones soon. It'll never be like it was but they're stunting the fishery on purpose now.
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[quote riverdog] And of course the nutrient rich flow of early releases where long gone. [/quote]
That is a factor that cannot be underestimated in discussing the early giants of Lees Ferry.
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