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It's official.[mad] More government over reach and stupidity on display. What a complete crock. As a sportsman and rancher, I completely disagree with this monument. I have spent many, many days on Elk Ridge and know a lot of folks from Monticello and Blanding who are opposed to what happened today.
I hope Trump makes all of Long Island NY a monument and requires every building, street or any thing else man-made be torn down and it returned to it's state prior to encroachment by humans! Maybe it could then also become a grizzly and wolf preserve!
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You choose to post an article and don't even post in a rational sense. I'm for the monument and am not going to try persuading anyone why it's a good thing or the best thing that could have been done because I think it will be a waste of time but I'm just saying if you wanted to be taken more seriously you could have posted about it in a more professional manner.
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Sorry, but I disagree with your position on this one. If you want to blame someone, blame Rob Bishop. His public land initiative was a give away of our national lands to special interests. I understand your concern as a rancher. Unfortunately, Cliven and his boys have poisoned that argument in the general public's view. I agree that if Long Island meets the criteria, it should be considered by the President. Does President elect Trump own any hotels or golf courses on Long Island?
Larry
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The Bears Ears and Elk Mountain are some of the most beautiful areas in our awesome state. This monument designation will do nothing to improve that and will do many things to harm it, in my opinion. I fully realize I am in the minority here as a rural rancher. But I will attempt to explain my position in a more professional manner if you will do this little peon the great honor of listening from your throne of greatness[  ]? (Kidding and just being a hard headed rancher)
I value open spaces. My life has been spent along the Utah/Nevada border where some days I am the only truck on the two-track road for 100 miles. The desert vistas, the extreme remoteness, the connection with the land are all sacred and part of my being. Contrast that with a trip into SLC. Concrete, crowds, noise, pollution, air traffic, freeways. While I am grateful for the amenities and conveniences in the city, I simply cannot wait to return to the desert. That is not a shot at any of you fine folks who choose to live in a city. I guess we are all wired differently and that is part of who we all are. But hopefully you can understand the differences in our lives on a daily basis?
Making the Bears Ears a monument goes against everything that I find of value. Yellowstone is a perfect example. World class scenery and wildlife and geology completely ruined, in my opinion, by boardwalks and souvenir stands and buses and guided tours and 1000 other things that ruin the wilderness that was meant to be saved. Standing 8 deep at a paved overlook being told by a ranger how beautiful Yellowstone falls are is my definition of hell. Contrast that with a pack trip in the back country of Yellowstone. Far less people, far less hassles and infinitely more enjoyable.
This monument is the end of generations of public land grazing. You will say that I am wrong, but let me explain. Monument status will complicate at best and eradicate, at worst, any improvements needed for grazing. Water lines, water developments, improving springs, installing or repairing water troughs all require backhoes or other equipment. It almost takes an act of congress to do those things on a normal public land grazing permit. Monument status brings those things to an end. This I know from my conversations with my peers, who try to continue ranching in the Grand Staircase monument. Those of you who oppose public land grazing allotments will applaud that. But think about the countless benefits projects like those I mentioned have for wildlife, non-game wildlife and the environment itself. Spreading our the water across the ecosystem have many benefits. It keeps all animals from having to congregate at a single source of water. They can utilize the natural grasses and forbs and browse across the entire area instead of over grazing small areas and leaving other place untouched because of the distance to water. I will always champion the rights of ranchers to use the public grazing allotments THEY OWN and to make improvements to those allotments. And I will champion the benefits of grazing from fire suppression to wildlife habitat improvement. This monument will drastically effect ranchers ability to stay in business and it will harm wildlife as improvements and repairs to water systems are stopped. It will be detrimental to small agriculture based communities just like the Staircase has been.
A small minority of the Native American activists, the SUWA and a few other "wilderness groups" have said that without protection, rampant vandalism and looting will take place? How will a monument stop or prevent that? Can I remind you that vandals still strike all the time in state and national parks? Remember the idiots who toppled rocks in Goblin Valley State park? Or the Hollywood star who carved their name at the Grand Canyon? Or a bunch of other acts of stupidity you hear about every year? NONE OF THAT CHANGES! And this new monument will be promoted and advertised by everyone from the Utah Travel Council to the Ute Tribal Association chasing greenback dollars from camera toting tourists! How will that keep Native American Sacred lands Sacred?
I am passionate about this issue and if my passion came across as unprofessional I am sorry. But if you can name anything that the federal government touches that they don't make worse, I'd be much obliged. From Amtrack to the USPS, from Social Security to Hurricane Katrina, everything they decide to manage is a fiasco. Their management of our National Parks is ridiculous and simply a debt sinkhole. How will the Bears Ears National Monument be any different?
Fatbiker,
You mentioned the Bundy family and then proceeded to lump all ranchers together with them. At least that is how I read your comment. A very small percentage of folks who fish have no disregard for fishing rules and regulations. They surely don't represent all of the rest of us as sportsmen do they? Please do not allow the actions of a few, to over-ride the rest of ranching families throughout the west, who do things the right way, and do their very best to be caretakers and thoughtful stewards of the land!
My comment on Long Island was meant in sarcasm folks. But why do we insist on only "saving" the west? Can you imagine Long Island before Columbus "discovered" America? I bet it was a paradise. Why can't we "save" it like the Bears Ears? Those of us in Rural areas feel like Washingon D.C. and even Utah State politicians have abandoned us with actions like this. It attacks our livelyhoods, it attacks our family, and it attacks a land we have spent generations preserving and supporting. These are my words. They come from someone many will call out of touch or old fashioned. I am all for progress and always try to think outside the box and see things from all perspectives. But I simply cannot see how the Bears Ears National Monument can be anything but another federally managed disaster.
You folks have a fine day, whether you agree with me or not. That is America's greatest gift, the freedom to disagree.
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That's a much better response. Unfortunately I don't have the most time to do a huge in depth response right now but I'll say a few things. I'm a recent graduate student in Natural Resources Recreation Planning Management so I know the history of land management, stuff about agencies, how they operate and stuff that most folks don't. I'm just going to select a few statements you've said and number them and write a response.
1. "Yellowstone is a perfect example. World class scenery and wildlife and geology completely ruined, in my opinion, by boardwalks and souvenir stands and buses and guided tours and 1000 other things that ruin the wilderness that was meant to be save". I actually agree with parts of what you say on this one. Board walks aren't aesthetically pleasing; they were installed as part of the NPS mandate of inclusiveness. There's the backcountry areas you and me like to go to as well but part of the inclusiveness mandate that the NPS is required to follow is making some areas accessible to those with disabilities. The NPS has stricter management objectives than for example the BLM. No offense but that's probably one of the reasons why people like ranchers might not like them. The reason for buses is to help with traffic control and unlike for example the BLM, the NPS has air quality standards it's required to try obtaining as part of its mission statement. To be honest all National Parks are failing their air quality standards for a variety of reasons. But that's why their are buses.
2. "This monument is the end of generations of public land grazing." Grazing, Mining, Drilling and Logging still take place in National Monuments. Those activities are allowed in active sights. They aren't allowed in spots where those activities aren't currently taking place.
3.A small minority of the Native American activists, the SUWA and a few other "wilderness groups" have said that without protection, rampant vandalism and looting will take place? How will a monument stop or prevent that? From what I've read only 20 people per day will be allowed to visit the monument. That's going to decrease the use of the area which will reduce the likelihood of anyone doing those things plus the limit on people offsets the advertising that you are talking about. I'll admitt I haven't been to the Bears Ears area yet(I've always wanted to). I know the BLM was managing it before this but I still doubt they were enforcing or actively looking monitoring for these types of crimes. I suspect with it being a monument there will be a lot more security going on. The other part of the protection wilderness groups are talking about has nothing to do with vandalism. Since it's statehood, Utah has sold over 50% of it's public lands...federal government doesn't do that. Utah is the most rapidly growing state as far as population growth and such goes. Even though the BLM managed the land prior to this being a monument they don't really get to decide how they want to manage it. Senators like Rob Bishop who have corporate and special interests do. Without it being a monument there is absolutely no doubt that this land would become a combination of private property, more homes and business, more mining, drilling, logging, and grazing sites, environmentally degraded, and decreased in size.
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Bovineowner, I spent 26 years on active duty in the military. I think we did a pretty fair job of keeping America safe. I drive on the interstate highway system on a regular basis. Pretty top notch road system. FAA runs the safest air system in the world. Center for Desease Control is a model that other countries try to emulate. Like it or not, the Affordable Care Act actually lowered medical spending while ensuring continuing coverage for existing conditions. The National Forest folks and BLM obviously don't please everyone, but they do a wonderful job, in my eyes, of protecting our public lands and managing them for multiple uses like grazing and recreation. It's easy to only see the things you thing the government does badly. You mentioned Yellowstone. Sounds like somewhere you'd choose not to visit. However, the millions of folks who do visit it every year come away in awe of the natural wonders the NPS protects.
Larry
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I for one am ecstatic Obama declared the Bears Ear as a National Monument mainly due to the fact some of the revisions in Bishops/Chaffez Public Lands Initiative
read as so...
TITLE XI – LONG-TERM ENERGY DEVELOPMENT CERTAINTY. This title states that
specified Federal lands open to oil, gas, and other resource development as of January 1, 2016,
“shall be managed for the production of energy and mineral resources as the highest management
priority and shall be developed…” Within the energy zones, the title places new limitations on the
Secretary of the Interior regarding withdrawals of energy projects, protections for wildlife and
cultural resources, lease stipulations, and planning.
You say you're a Hunter well who knows were they'll find oil maybe right were you love to hunt and fish had those areas been transferred to Utah under the Utah Public Lands initiative its possible those areas would be fenced off and an out of state mining company contracted to close it off to the public.
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I believe there should be some compromise. I grew up in carbon/ emery county area. Efforts have been made to designate san refael swell a wilderness area. The problem I have is this included many acres of baron ugly landscape outside the swell that would not be able to be drilled for gas ect... And we are talking some very in attractive areas. I know emery county officials have fought for some compromise, but it falls on unwilling ears
Nobody in carbon emery counties would want anything but protection for the swell, the wedge, and cedar mountain. But why not compromise on areas with in these areas?
I am sure in the 1+ million areas in bears ears there are areas where compromise could be reached.
And in my experience the scenic areas, more revered areas are not the ideal areas for development or grazing ect...But the supporters don't seem to believe in compromise.
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Sure Im all for compromise, I get Carbon and Emery country are dying get a finical kick rekindling the mining industry out there. But the Utah Public Land initiative ( PLI) sponsored by bishop and Chaffez and arent looking for compromise. The initiative demands the turn over all the land including Grand Gulch, Fish, Owl, and Arch Canyons; ect ect
I highly recommend you research more about the Utah Public Lands Initiative theirs allot of vague and complicated inserts that can be interpreted as closures to the public, closure to recreation, and the sale of the public lands to private entities.
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Bovine, I understand your position, you state it very well right here "I value open spaces. My life has been spent along the Utah/Nevada border where some days I am the only truck on the two-track road for 100 miles. The desert vistas, the extreme remoteness, the connection with the land are all sacred and part of my being. Contrast that with a trip into SLC. Concrete, crowds, noise, pollution, air traffic, freeways. While I am grateful for the amenities and conveniences in the city, I simply cannot wait to return to the desert. "
Now, consider that some of those city people, especially many from cities in the East feel the same way. They long to have just a little bit, maybe 5 days of your life, for just once in theirs. They thirst for the solitude, the extreme remoteness, they crave to connect with the land...those are natural things and we are running out of places to have that remoteness.
I recently spoke at a public meeting that was being held to determine if 26,000 acres of newly obtained land be declared wilderness or wild forest. The number of people that asked for wilderness that said almost your exact words astonishes me.
This is why we needed Bears Ear...so people that want the same things that you have everyday can have those things for a little while, so they can imagine what it is like to have what you love everyday, to have a mental image of it that they can remember for years, that they can go to in their mind...
Bishop had his chance, several years of chances, he couldn't get it done, he couldn't come up with a compromise, so the children were told what would be, whether they liked it or not. Which is how children that can't come up with a solution of their own should be treated.
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http://www.tu.org/blog-posts/it-only-took-one-day
Proof that our house of representatives, congress, and government officials don't care about public lands or our right to use them. Their only interest in them is selling them.
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Until you visit the Bears Ears and have an actual idea of what you are talking about, you come across as just another college kid/grad who knows a lot more from a book than from life. I applaud your zeal for the outdoors but caution you that a lifetime of making a living from the land has taught me many times more than any college textbook ever has. I have spent decades on this land that was just turned into a monument. You have read about it. I wish you well in your future and hope you have a fine evening.
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I have been in Southern Utah both near Zions National Park and where Grandstair Case Escalante monument which is a similar situation to what Bears Ears National Monument will be. In fact, it was actually for a class where we talked to every party that would be involved. When we were in Zions we talked to of course the NPS but we also talked to Springdale business owners and the Springdale county commission(Springdale is the small town you have to drive through to get to Zions N.P). When we went more in the Moab area and talked to Kane, Garfield and Iron county commissioners(those are the counties surrounding Grandstair Case Escalante monument) it was shocking how different things were for two similar areas. The Kane, Garfield, and Iron county areas were bitter about that national monument and actually called it cancerous(boy that was was a fun discussion and incident with our class and them haha). But the point is that Springdale and those 3 counties are literally identical situations but one's economy is thriving and the people are happy and the other's economy isn't doing well and the people are bitter and  (probably the nicest way of putting it). Springdale has embraced to tourism and those counties haven't. That's literally the only difference.
Trust me, there's lots of places I have wanted to go including that area but I haven't been able to because of A) being poor from college and B) not having time because of college lol. It's not just this forum that I've paid attention to this topic. I've been following this topic for several years that it has been going on. During these several years Rob Bishop attempted to come up with a "compromise" called the Public Lands Initiative. It was absolutely unacceptable. You might not be happy about the monument but it happened in large part because of Bishops unacceptable PLI. If you're going to be mad at anyone, it should be Rob Bishop.
Look, I can kind kind of understand what you mean by saying I sound like a college kid who hasn't been there but the reality is I don't need to have been there to talk about the basics of what a monument designation does. Grazing and all that still is allowed to take place where it is occurring. The part that you're probably not happy about is that things like grazing require a recovery period. If you've only got one grazing permit over a particular section then you won't be able to go graze somewhere new while that area recovers. So I'll admit that it's kind of like you're going to be going from a full time job to a part time job. I'm sorry that the world is the way it is but this monument designation is the only way this area wouldn't be sold. It's not just paranoi. It's proven with Utah's state government track record with our public lands. They've sold over 50% of state owned public lands since becoming a state. That's actually why it appears that a lot of our state is under federal management.
But just like you wished me luck, I wish you the best of luck in the future and encourage you and the community surrounding Bears Ears to be like Springdale, NOT Iron, Kane, and Garfield County.
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I will agree with you on the different opinion's between a lot of the folks in Springdale and the counties affected by the Grand Staircase. But having lived down in that country for years I have a little different take on the opinions of those interviews. The folks in Springdale have been dealing with being a gateway to a National Park for years. The dynamics of the area have completely changed from years ago. Sure the economy is great for polished rock sales and hotels and restaurants but gone are the 4 and 5 generation farm and ranch families who settled that country that depended on that area for their livelihood. They fought just like the people are fighting the new designation because that was the way they raised their families. None of them were equipped to run shops or stores. Their lives were made working the land. Most people I know whether they are farmers or ranchers or some city dude or what ever would be very unhappy if their families for generations have lived in the same place and done the same things and depended on the same resources only to have somebody from some place else say well you have to go things are different now. I too have been a poor college student and spent plenty of time with my nose in a book. But I'm a little longer in the tooth now and have been out and about enough to see how a hasty decision can impact the lives of so many and for generations to come. I agree with you that Rep. Bishop's plan wasn't the best idea but it was a beginning point and the right people were being brought from all different parties to have wise discussions to come up with a good solution. So what if it took a few years to get it right for groups to come together. There are answers that can benefit all if they take time to work together. But as happens quite often in Washington, the game is over now because someone doesn't like the score so they are taking their ball and going home. I realize we all aren't going to agree on everything but I hope we can at least learn to give and take a little to keep this a great place to live. FishingLunatic I realize I probably have more in common with Bovineowner because I've walked in his boots but we are all tied together in this by our love of fishing. Good luck to you as you finish school and continue with your life. When I think back on those days, being old ain't that bad.
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Stickhorse it's definitely a frustrating situation for either side if you're on the side that didn't get its way. Really the decision to make the monument I think was based on 2 things. 1. This is our State Senator Rob Bishop we're talking about. Several years he said he was working on a land compromise. When it finally came out and was shown to the public, it was literally the biggest disappointment ever. Since he's still the state senator he would still be involved in this process, and I think nobody had faith that he would be willing to compromise from his already awful compromise. 2. The timing of this presidential election with arguably the most unenvironmental president in History, Donald Trump winning also likely played a huge role in Obama's decision to declare it a National Monument because of some of the projections for what Donald Trump may do. Other than that Utah unfortunately is the fastest growing state so the threat of preserving a special area was even higher than normal.
So honestly Stickhorse it's kind of a travesty how the world really is so divided and people of particular power like senators or the president being included. And population is still growing which plays a big role in all of this...the more people the less resources per person. There might be physically more room for other homes and people to live but I think pretty soon people will start realizing how inconvenient it is having to live using less resources, and just feeling more crowded in city life. It's kind of  in some ways how the world is changing. There's some things we can do but honestly there's some that we really can't and we need to keep special places open to stay mentally sane literally lol.
Thanks for the wishes in the future. I definitely could have chose a degree that would pay better in the end and would have a easier transition period to becoming a full time employee but ultimately I decided to do something I love and care about. Hopefully it pays off! Good luck to to you to.
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I agree with you on many parts. But there are a couple of points that I differ on. First he is a Congressman and not a Senator and that is important because he is elected by the individuals being affected down there. which means if they all lost faith in what he is doing they can run his butt out on a rail. He also has support from other State officials that have put a lot more study and effort into the process than you and I will ever have time for if we live to be 200 years old and the local members of the Navajo Nation have also been supportive of parts of the plan drafted by Bishop. Is it a good plan? Not for everybody. But it is a good beginning point for discussion. We elect local individuals because the are aware of the needs of those in their area's. If they aren't aware then we who they were elected by can vote them out. They have visited with those who live there to see what their lives are about. The President and his staff are blind to the needs of the area and no nothing about it as they displayed in their announcement by placing a picture of Arches instead of the very area they were talking about. Also, we are the fastest growing state but have you ever been to San Juan or Grand County. They aren't growing at all. And most of them don't care to grow. And they don't care to have people from thousands of miles away tell them what they need to do when they have local representation they can work with. As far as protecting the land for all our use. The only difference I have seen in the Grand Staircase in the 10 years it's been a monument is restrictions on some friends who grazed cattle there. I can still go anywhere I was able to go 10 years ago and the 6 times I have been there this year I haven't seen one federal law enforcement officer protecting anything down there where 10 years ago I always would run into a County Sherriff. I just have trouble seeing the benefit I guess because I'm an old fart that hates change. I know it's going to happen but it is tough to experience it and I love that country and after 10 years of the other experiment have not been able to find any benefit. Have a great day.
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Thanks for joining the fray Stickhorse. I appreciate your perspective.
Folks, those of you who say this isn't a land grab may find it interesting to know that this monument includes 109000 acres of State land. WHICH WILL BE TRADED FOR FEDERAL LAND SOMEWHERE ELSE!!! What if we don't want to trade? What if we trade for salt flats acres? Are you cool with that?
I will continue to be completely against this monument and will work hard to get people to understand how damaging it is to agriculture, mining, timber and to us as sportsmen. That world class limited entry elk permit on Elk Mountain just became a different hunt than in years past. From where you can camp to where you can legally fire a rifle all WILL change depending on how the monument is managed and where they deem tourist recreation places will go. This is a nightmare to me as a sportsman. In the decades I have spent hunting down in San Juan county, this monument designation is simply the worst thing I have seen happen. I am amazed that sportsmen cant see this for what it is. Don't say some of us didn't try to shine some light on a very dark issue.
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So because the Tribune says so, It will all be just fine? Try talking to the folks who have lived this in Escalante. It will not stay the same my friend, regardless of what the Trib tells ya
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I heard last night that one of Trumps nominees would be working on trying to reverse this Obama, highly political move, hope he is able to do it[:/]. We have plenty of Monuments here in Utah.[:|]
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