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[cool] [#0000ff]That copy of the Tribune was one of the first actually printed on paper (instead of stone).[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]To the best of my reckymembry, the larger perch were taken during the late summer in about 1980. The mixed size catch, on the ice, was in January of 82 (I believe), the first time Deer Creek was open to (perch only) ice fishing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I think a lot of us cringe when we see those nasty metal edged rulers. They were weapons of mass knuckle destruction in the hands of  istic teachers (terrorists). Hope you were able to make it out of the first grade. (just josh'n)[/#0000ff]
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I guess they should kill off or evict the white people while they're at it. White people aren't native to these parts either.
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But tomegun, I was born here in Utah. I thought that made me a native. If I have to leave, I don't know where I will have to go to fish. I'm a mut with a pedigree from all over the world![crazy]
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Well I guess if it's a waste of time to stock non-native fish...the DWR should refrain from stocking...Rainbows, Browns, Brook trout, Tiger trout, Lake Trout, Kochani, Wipers, Sunfish, Catfish, Tiger Muskie, Muskelunge, and Northerns among others, thus saving the division millions of dollars in hatchery and transport fees.
To make it easier for those purists who want to keep everything native...this means the DWR should direct their resourses and your dollars toward stocking ONLY the native fishes of Utah. These would be...Bear Lake Whitefish, Bonneville Whitefish, Bonneville Cisco, Bonneville Cutthroat, Colorado River Cutthroat, Mountain Whitefish, Utah Sucker, Longnose Dace, Mottled Sculpin, Mountain Sucker, Paiute Sucker, Paiute Sculpin, Redside Shiner, Speckled Dace, Utah Chub, Bony tail, Colorado Pike Minnow, Humpback Chub, June Sucker, Razorback Sucker, Virgin River Chub, Woundfin, Least Chub, Virgin Spine Dace, Bear Lake Sculpin, Bluehead Sucker, Desert Sucker, Flannelmouth Sucker, Leatherside Chub, and last but not least the Roundtail Chub.
Not many game is there in this Native list...but they're the native fish. Soooo... if some as they pointed out Utah should go native...
this is where your dollars should be going.
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Yes it is a waste of time bassrods to stock fish that don't belong in that particular ecosystem. I don't agree totally with stocking all those different types of fish in new places. We are we gambling with mother nature. Bye the way, most of those fish I can't even catch im my neck of the woods. But even besides that fact why would anybody want to plant perch in the majority of our lakes. The places they are planted by bucket biologist totally changes the way a fisheries biologist has to manage that lake. Just because of one little fish. In most cases I've seen where perch have been planted it totally destroyed the ecosystem or another species was introduced to manage just one type of fish in most lakes. Plan and simple a waste of money and another destroyed ecosystem. I feel the same way about Brookies that stunt or bows that reduce native cut populations.
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My question is why is everyone so quick to jump and claim that perch, walleye and other fish were first introduced by bucket biologists when the DWR or back in the early days when most of these fish wound up in our lakes and streams (the Fish & Game Dept.) were legally introduced? They didn't know then what they think they know know and in most cases it has improved the recreational fishing, the economy and provided jobs and revenue for the state.
As for not catching most of those fish on the list of natives in your neck of the woods, you would have if you'd have been a native and should be now if Utah were only stocking native species which means that those touting purity of fishing are now fishing for non-native species.
And while we're at it...we can blame bucket biologists for improving our lakes and streams because when there is a mass die off of game fish...not to be  with "trash fish" like chubs, carp & suckers, there is an outcry as to why did it happen. Yes...we can thank the perch and all the other non-native species for being the watchdogs for our environment.
We have improved water quality and created total industries around all of the "non-native" species.
If it wasn't for the perch, walleye and bass...the lowly and often tried to be eliminated Utah chub, would not have any value. Also, who would really care about the June Sucker or any of the other so called trash fish...that are now proving to be so valuable in our "altered" eco-systems.
And let's thank the Utah Carp for becoming the new "fresh water halibut" fish sandwich and fishsticks. [cool]
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Bass...
The ocncept of protecting native fish in native waters is not about going back 150 years and remvoing every fish. It's not reality to do that in most instances. The reason why managing for nativefish is important is because from ana ecosystem point of view it is the only way to truly know the ecosystem is in balance. This is an extension of Aldo Leopolds (the father of modern day game mangement) of protecting the small gogs and wheels and not just the showpieces.
It's really about the right fish in the right water. Nobody is suggesting that warmwater fish be removed from places like the Willard Bay, Pelican Lake, newton and quail Creek. The few warmwater fisheries in the state that seem to be even remotely in balance. There are other warmwater fisheries that have been in flux or out Yuba, Lake Powell, Utah Lake, Starvation are all prime examples of either chronically out of balance or boom and bust fisheries.
There is not doubt (I am not dwr apologist like Worm and Bobber) that many of these problems were created by well meaning biologist. Most are in fact, but that does not condone the illegal transplants that have ahppned in the last 20 years. They are:
Walleye and Crawfish in Deer Creek,
Walleye and Yellow Perch in Jordanelle.
Yellow PErch in Rockport, Mantua, and Starvation.
Samllmouth bass and crawfish in Strawberry.
As far as arguing the economics, It's pretty easy to follow how illegal introductions have hurt the Angler use of many waters. changing a trout water to a warmwater fishery has almost always resulted in a drop in angler use and increased costs if the trout fishery is to be maintained.
As far as the Utah chub goes, originally it had a woderfull predator, the Utah Lake form of the Bonneville cutthroat. It was a fish that grew to 20-30lbs. Ate both chubs and suckers voarciously and fed the early pioneers. Maybe you think things are better now with 90% of the biomass being carp. With smaller populations of bullheads, whitebass, and the big grower of the group Channel cats instead. But the real;ity is that lake would get a lot more fisherman if it was still a trout fishery. But a trout fishery, in my opinion, will never come back. What is possible at Utah Lake though is a return of the Largemouth Bass fishery to it's former glory of the early 1900's. But instead of putting our efforts behind the june sucker recovery (which if it works would resotre the largemouth habitat) We bitch and moan about losing our diversity.
Here is another example that will nto be too popular on this board. Take a look at macs in bear lake. Historically Bear Lake Cutthroat used to grow to 15 to 20 lbs. Now we are lucky to see them break seven in their native water. Why, robert Bahnke theorizes that the pressure for the food base is the key. Historically the bear lake cutthroat was the top end predator. Now we have some lake trout in the lake. While they grow big compared to other fish in Utah standards, they are not exactly putting on the weight. There was a famous lake trout caught a few years ago. it had been tagged in a previous study around 11 years earlier. Probalby put on the lbs in the years since. Guess how much weight it put on in 11 years. A single lb. A twelve lb mac vs. a twenty lb cutt cuaght out of its native water. I know what I would choose. Luckily, there is not enough zooplankton in Bear Lake to feed Juevenile Lake trout as a result they are stocked. What if all of the sudden, bear lake water chemistry changed because of an increase in phosphorus loads in the area and zoo plankton now survived in greater numbers. What if the sterile lake trout now planted were not entirely sterile (sterilization is only 97% effective). The fish could easily outstrip their prey base and we could lose an ecosystme that is now entirely in tact. Why play with fire on an ecosystme that exists nowhere else in the world? Especially when the alternative historically grew larger fish!
Anway, maybe you guys are on to something. I hear peacock bass becoming more prevelant every year in Florida. Who cares if if Florida Strain largmouth bass are wiped out. They don't grow large or anything. Just remember guys every fish is native to somewhere and iun many cases the native fish are under pressue. That is why we fight for native fisheries! It's not a trout vs bass thing, It's not a walleye vs Trout thing. It's a right fish right water thing. anyway who cares about walleyes and smallmouth bass. I hear snakeheads taste good.
As for a voice with the dwr. You guys are welcome to be a part of the UAC. Through it and the member organizations TU, Stonefly, SL County Fish and Game, Rocky Mountain Anglers and the bass boys, you can meet many of the dwr personel. It's just about you boys getting involved.
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Now if that is a yellow perch hanging on your Dad's wall is a three pounder...that's a new state record and a new IFGA record for Utah. Because the Utah record is only 15 1/8 inches long at 2 pounds and 11 ounces.
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[font "Arial"]I would hate to see a nice record like your Dad's not be recognized for the trophy it is. [/font][/reply]
You're jumping to conclusions. No where did W&B ever claim that the Yellow Perch (approx. 3lbs) was caught by hook and line. My father (who's wall had the perch) recently retired from the DWR. This perch was taken out of Fishlake a number of years ago. It was collected in a gillnett sampling. It was a definate trophy, which was the reason they saved it, and had it mounted.
This fish was taken not long after perch were introduced into the lake. They had yet to stunt. I doubt there are any perch of that size left in the lake.
Again, this fish is still currently hanging up in the Souther Regional DWR offices, if anyone would like to see it...
Dave -- good post. It really isn't about Trout vs. Walleye, perch, etc.. It is about what fish is right for the water.
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You say native waters....there is none now day it has all been changed now with dams and people so how do you go back....and why would you...or do you think that if its not a trout it is a trash fish........
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Bassrods, Nothing I can or could say would get my point across. I guess it's not worth the trouble to read this post any more. Time to get ready for Xmas.
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I think that everybody needs to quit complaining so much and be thankful for what we have. Trout fisherman have their waters, and bass fisherman have their's, and so on.
We could spend money and kill off lakes to change what species exists in that lake, but just a few years later the BB will be back and waste all that money and effort.
Why don't we focus our efforts on improving what we have with habitat restoration. I believe any lake with enough habitat ( artificial or natural) will thrive.
I'm not a fishery biologist, I have just noticed that lakes with good habitat seem to do well regardless of species living in the water.
Good fishin to all!
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Are dwr people natural to this state?
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The right habitat and an ample food source and all of the fish bass trout and perch get a long well most of our best waters have multiple species in them...
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