No Yuba Perch in '07

[Troll]

So my list is not legitimate, who appointed you God.
There is not one frivilous thing on my list and all can be backed up with a valid reason.
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[BearLakeMack]

[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]Admitting you don't know the process and whining about it, are two different things. Just about the time you think you may know the system, you learn you ain't as smart as you thought you were. I can see someone being a little upset because that small pothole in the road cost a year. [/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]I learned a lot about it and hopefully can use this newfounded knowledge. I, too, have my agendas I would like to see changed. The snagging of Lake Trout in Bear Lake from the State Park Marina during the spawn when they are most vulnerable, concerns me. Flaming Gorge has regulations in place to stop this practice somewhat. I'd like to see the same regs in place there. So we'll see what we can do. [/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3][/size][/black][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][black][size 3]BTW, thank you for helping TD. He has kind words about your help.[/size][/black][/font]
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[PBH]

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There is not one frivilous thing on my list and all can be backed up with a valid reason.[/reply]

Good. Now, share that data, and use that data to come up with support for your list. Develop a case for each item on your list. Start gaining support for that case right now. Don't wait. Ask for input on those items. Find out why others might be opposd to your suggestion so that you can be prepared to defend against them. Don't take criticism personally -- use that criticism to your advantage.

Most importantly, contact the DWR and find out why your recommendation isn't in place already. Learn why they haven't already made those recommendations law. See if they will support you on your idea, and find out what needs to be done in order to get their support.
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[Paddler]

Not sure who Roger Wilson or John Weis are, so forgive my ignorance. However, it's disappointing that Wilson isn't more open to changing regulations when new information becomes available. Adherence to process for it's own sake just makes one appear narrow minded and inflexible. If he had advocated for the change, he could have made many people happy, and there is no down side. Those perch will cycle, and probably crash again. We should be able to retain them whenever there is a harvestable surplus.

Decisions should be based on the biology of the resource only. Emergency closures are often made on short notice, and other changes are as well. This summer, for instance, the Washington Fish and Game moved a nice chunk of the Coho quota from Westport to La Push, as the fishing was slow out of Westport. This allowed increased opportunity out of La Push. A flexible, sportsman-minded DWR is very much appreciated.

And this Weis character is way out of touch. John, perch fishermen don't use Sage rods. St. Croix, if you please.
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[tlspyder13]

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Sorry but that just doesn't cut it. If you can only change things in May then only hold mettings in May. Mettings for the sake of meetings are a waste of time and money. I will be better informed for next time and I do show up before I speak. I attended the RAC meeting and had hoped to attend the meeting yesterday but was ill and couldn't travel. Had I been able to attend I would not have spoken out to the condition of perch in Yuba as I have never fished there.

My interest is more in the way the system all but begs sportsman to participate but then turns a deaf ear once they show up. Yes they do listen to organizations but they don't seem to listen to the single sportsman to well. Shouldn't be that way and maybe I will be the person that helps change that someday. I am a politicians worst nightmare when properly motivated. I can procedure and follow detailed rules with the best of them.
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[jdubya]

[reply]Not sure who Roger Wilson or John Weis are, so forgive my ignorance. And this Weis character is way out of touch. John, perch fishermen don't use Sage rods. St. Croix, if you please.[/reply]

John Weis is the guy that provides nightmares for 22 inch trout

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[/quote]
Sorry but that just doesn't cut it. If you can only change things in May then only hold mettings in May. Mettings for the sake of meetings are a waste of time and money. .[/reply]

No, that is not the way it works. You go to the RAC meetings in May to hear DWR aquatics guys/gals tell you what changes in the proc they plan to propose to vote on in September. In other words, they give you a heads up.

You then take the microphone and you make your own set of proposals for specific waters or regulations, etc.. that you are interested in. The DWR guys take notes on what you propose and then they go study the question.

Then in late August the tentative Proclamation is released for study prior to the RAC meeting. If you got what you wanted, great, but go to the RAC meeting to make sure it doesn't get derailed by someone else. If you did not get what you want, then go to the RAC meeting and ask why the hell not? Make DWR defend their position in not granting your May request.

Thus, this May, if someone had requested Yuba be open for perch, chances are 99% it would have come back as part of the Proc, especially after the netting data.

People bitch at the RAC process when they don't get their way, but a lot of times when RAC members vote they are also listening to the biology and all of the other people that aren't there.You try to be balanced.

For example, you could line up 20 guys screaming to me at the RAC meeting to allow harvest of all cutt's at Strawberry, and not have a single private individual ask for the slot lmit to be maintained, and I would vote against the 20 guys every time because I know better than to simply let them sway them process by turning out in numbers.

But anglers are docile compared to trophy elk hunters. When I mess with tag and age permits that could potentialy reduce someones chance of getting a huge, huge bull, versus just a damn huge bull, well that is when the fur really starts flying. So until you anglers grow a pair......

So good luck in the future with the DWR RAC aquatics process. We got it put in to give you guys a voice, so use it!!
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[UTBASS]

Thanks For The Clarity ...
Who Are You? What Is Your Name? Should "PBH" Be someone who we all know and trust like Tube Dude?
Let's start with the basics. Are you just some guy who hangs out at the lake on the weekends? Who are you? Why would the things you say make any difference to us? I know that your insight has been great but ... who are you?
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]PBH is up to saying his own piece and is not "bashful" as we have observed in the past. However, I would like to give at least a partial answer, from my position.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]PBH is not only an experienced and accomplished angler, but is educated and experienced in matters of fisheries biology. Furthermore, he has been exposed to Utah fisheries biology all his life, inasmuch as his father was one of the foremost fisheries biologists in the country...now retired...and other members of his family are still involved in several areas.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]In short, he wants the same things we want...better fishing and more fishing opportunities in Utah. His perspective might sometimes be different and his manner might be a little abrasive at times, but he is not the enemy.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]And...what makes you think you can trust my judgment? I AM married. But then again, that is probably just bad judgment on the my wife's part.[/#0000ff]
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[tlspyder13]

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[size 1]People bitch at the RAC process when they don't get their way, but a lot of times when RAC members vote they are also listening to the biology and all of the other people that aren't there.You try to be balanced. [/size]

[/quote]

So why did you chose not to listen to the biology? The biologist wanted it opened up. I'm only guessing here but were you one of the 2 that voted no and if so here is your chance to say why.

[reply]
[size 1]So good luck in the future with the DWR RAC aquatics process. We got it put in to give you guys a voice, so use it!! [/size]

[/quote]

You told me to use my voice I have here and will in the future at the RAC meetings. I will also follow your advice and start attending the May meetings.

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[size 1]But anglers are docile compared to trophy elk hunters. When I mess with tag and age permits that could potentialy reduce someones chance of getting a huge, huge bull, versus just a damn huge bull, well that is when the fur really starts flying. So until you anglers grow a pair...... [/size]

[/quote]

Big game hunters are sometimes short sided but the meeting I did attend give me much hope in the current system. Be carefull what you wish for as you just might get it.
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[jdubya]

[reply] I'm only guessing here but were you one of the 2 that voted no and if so here is your chance to say why. [/reply]

Do you actually read what other people write or just have a monologue with yourself? See you guys next May....
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]Hey, Bro, you're being kinda vague here. Can you be a bit more direct and specific?[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Good response. It does get tedious seeing and hearing the same old tired excuses...with nothing being done to correct obvious breakdowns or inequities in the system. But, like I have said before, most public officials would rather make NO decision than to risk making a BAD decision.[/#0000ff]
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[PBH]

Bass -- who I am shouldn't make a dime of difference if I give good advice. Take it or leave it.


The RAC isn't perfect. Which is EXACTLY why the May proposal date was implemented.

Fishermen have extremely short memories. A few years ago, the DWR proposed regulation changes on the Middle Provo River. They proposed them in August. Change was made for the follow year. Fishermen threw an absolute tizzy fit. They claimed the time period was too short, and that there should be a change made to the system that allowed for more time prior to changes being made.

The DWR listened. They implemented a May proposal date for all regulation changes.

Now, fishermen are upset again, because now (at our own request) we have to wait longer to get a change made.

but, this time, we are mad about waiting.

We are such flip-floppers! When things go our way, the system "works". When they don't, the system is "broken". Ironic.

My suggestion stays the same: Get involved. But don't wait to get involved. Get invloved RIGHT NOW! If you truly want to help make Utah fisheries improve, you should always strive to make improvements. Don't sit around and wait for someone else to do it for you. Make a phone call today.


I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again. If Utah's RAC system is so bad, why are ALL of the other Western States following Utah's lead by implementing RAC systems patterned off of ours? The system will ALWAYS need some tuning, but it's a good system.

This time it didn't work out for us. But, thanks to the efforts of individuals that DID get involved, this regulations change will breaze through the process next year without a hitch. And, it will be all thanks to the anglers.
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[TubeDude]

[cool][#0000ff]I am going to lock this thread. I had my chance to vent, and others have had a chance to air their points of view. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I think we have all learned from this public airing of the steps of the process and the potential frustration when the steps are not taken in a timely fashion. Again, we don't have to like it, but we have to live with it.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]The bottom line is that there is a defined process whereby sportsmen can bring their proposed changes to the UDWR, and there is the potential to affect change...if your proposal is sound and is backed by good biology. Now we need to stay in touch and be aware of the dates of our respective RAC meetings and then show up and be heard. If we don't do our part then we can't complain about nothing being done.[/#0000ff]
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